Page 8 of 15 FirstFirst ...
6
7
8
9
10
... LastLast
  1. #141
    Not really under the radar as I thought they said they were doing this due to the removal of titanforging? Gear drops will be less across the board as there won't be ways to keep farming the same peice of gear for a chance at a random affix/titanforge.

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    There's a fine line between bringing things back in line and eliminating the main drive people have to do the content. This change moves the dial too far.
    I don't think so. I feel like this SHOULD be the case to make obtaining gear feel much more rewarding/exciting when you actually do get the drop you want and not just have loot shoved in your face like it's raining purples everywhere.
    Last edited by HitPoint; 2020-07-12 at 02:52 AM.
    Every thread is like entering an LFR with 5 stacks of determination. -Compstance

  2. #142
    Legendary! Frolk's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Norway, Lørenskog
    Posts
    6,546
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    Pretty much only the sweaty tryhards who play the game more like a job than a game miss masterloot.
    Does it make me a sweaty tryhard wanting to distribute loot to people who will benefit the most from it or even who deserved it the most.
    Say ur on progress, you have been there for entire process from wiping at 90% till wiping at 0.2% for 300 attempts, then on the last raid of the week u kill it after 5 pulls and dont get loot, but the new dude whos only been there for 5 pulls get it and both secondary stats are kinda meh for him.

    Can u with a straight face say that the raiders whos been there for 300 pulls does not deserve it more than the 1 with 5 pulls?
    PROUD TRUMP SUPPORTER, #2024Trump #MAGA
    PROUD TRUMP CAMPAIGN SUPPORTER #SaveEuropeWithTrump
    PROUD SUPPORTER OF THE WALL
    BLUE LIVES MATTER
    NO TO ALL GUNCONTROL OR BACKGROUND CHECKS IN EUROPE
    /s

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by HitPoint View Post
    I don't think so. I feel like this SHOULD be the case to make obtaining gear feel much more rewarding/exciting when you actually do get the drop you want and not just have loot shoved in your face like it's raining purples everywhere.
    This just makes long strings of poor RNG even more ungratifying. I'm reminded of Heroic Mechanar back in TBC when I mained a Warrior tank. I think it took me something like 75 runs (no exaggeration) to get the sword I wanted. I really don't want to see that kind of loot scarcity come back. :3

  4. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by Frolk View Post
    Does it make me a sweaty tryhard wanting to distribute loot to people who will benefit the most from it or even who deserved it the most.
    Say ur on progress, you have been there for entire process from wiping at 90% till wiping at 0.2% for 300 attempts, then on the last raid of the week u kill it after 5 pulls and dont get loot, but the new dude whos only been there for 5 pulls get it and both secondary stats are kinda meh for him.

    Can u with a straight face say that the raiders whos been there for 300 pulls does not deserve it more than the 1 with 5 pulls?
    If you're doing 300 attempts on something i'll just assume it's cutting edge mythic content, which makes you fit right into the sweaty try hard who plays it more like a job than a game, just like I said.

    Now if that is what you and your guild are into, more power to ya. But exactly like I said, only cutting edge tryhards cared about the removal of masterloot.

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    But that’s exactly how it is now with end dungeon rewards being capped at 465 (10lvls below the chest). If you want 475 (Mythic Raid Ilvl) from M+ you’re still limited to the weekly chest.

    Not to mention, in my original post (which I assume you snipped to make your point) I also said it’s entirely possible to clear the raid and get nothing but AP. In which case you’re loot locked for the week. There’s no loot lock for M+ so if you’re unlucky you can always keep running them if you decide AND you get a weekly chest for a guaranteed item + TR. There’s no chest for raiding. You can literally get nothing but AP for the week.

    At the start of a season, M+ can be spammed for faster gearing than raids. A +2-3 drops about the same ilvl as the previous seasons Mythic Raid with no lockout. By class/Armor stacking groups in lower keys and 3 chesting them, you can very effectively gear up in the first week or 2 negating the vast majority of raid loot, especially in Normal/Heroic. It’s Completely broken and needed fixing.
    Normal and Heroic loot is irrelevant, we were getting what we needed from there in a week or two prior to M+ being in the game anyway. M+ was a viable 3rd endgame option in BFA, as it currently stands it won't be anymore, it's gonna be raid or die.

  6. #146
    Elemental Lord
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    8,441
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Looks like this has mostly slipped under the radar but this is a pretty big change (especially for those of us who exclusively play M+). Moving into SL, it looks like Blizzard is going to decrease the drop rate of gear in M+ to a single piece in the box at the end of the dungeon. Obviously this could change at a later date but this will effectively neuter one of the easiest ways to gear your toon in the expansion.

    Here's the interview, and the specific information from Ion quoted below:

    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    So the exact quantities are still evolving (please don't quote me 100% on this) but notably for Mythic+ it will be one item from the end-of-run chest that is repeatable. The weekly loot chest will still have a greater selection of items to choose from (still one a week) but that should be a more reliable source of upgrades since you can best pick the one that suits your needs out of a wider range of things that you've earned. We're continuing with personal loot and tradability. The baseline reasons for moving away from Group Loot/Master Loot to Personal Loot 3-4 years ago haven't meaningfully changed. I think if anything, some of the potential abuses inherent in Master Loot, where people lose agency or control over their own items--the items now belong to the guild master, or a PUG leader that has arbitrary rules--these things are even more-heightened when things are scarse. So we feel like also without the randomness of Warforged/Titanforging messing with tradability, personal loot should be more consistent then ever in terms of distributing upgrades.
    I'm usually a supporter of Blizzard but after seeing the way that Soulbinds are going to work on top of this change to M+ I'm deeply regretting my decision to preorder this expansion.
    here's another quote: "So the exact quantities are still evolving (please don't quote me 100% on this) but notably for Mythic+ it will be one item from the end-of-run chest that is repeatable." literally the first line there. so there is a chance that will change. I think it definitely will as there has always been a greater reward for 3 chesting a key than if you 1 chest a key. so yeah still being determined

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    Normal and Heroic loot is irrelevant, we were getting what we needed from there in a week or two prior to M+ being in the game anyway. M+ was a viable 3rd endgame option in BFA, as it currently stands it won't be anymore, it's gonna be raid or die.
    So Heroic Raid loot is irrelevant but the 465 end of dungeon loot in M+ isn’t? I’m really struggling to understand the complaint here. They’re nerfing the amount of end of run items.

    If you want Mythic Raid ilvl gear from M+, then it’s from the weekly cache in SL... exactly the same as it is now on Live.

    So if you’re saying it’s viable in BFA then it’s viable in SL...
    Last edited by Dakara; 2020-07-12 at 05:23 AM.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    So Heroic Raid loot is irrelevant but the 465 end of dungeon loot in M+ isn’t? I’m really struggling to understand the complaint here. They’re nerfing the amount of end of run items.
    They are both irrelevant that's why I say there is no reason to nerf M+ even more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakara View Post
    If you want Mythic Raid ilvl gear from M+, then it’s from the weekly cache in SL... exactly the same as it is now on Live.

    So if you’re saying it’s viable in BFA then it’s viable in SL...
    BFA had titanforging which made M+ viable. The last patch didn't but had gear from visions and corruptions so that you could compete with mythic raiders for at least a few months (when it matters). Shadowlands as it stands doesn't have anything of the sort, and M+ is just gonna turn into nothing more but a burden for raiders instead of a proper endgame path.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Hinastorm View Post
    If you're doing 300 attempts on something i'll just assume it's cutting edge mythic content, which makes you fit right into the sweaty try hard who plays it more like a job than a game, just like I said.

    Now if that is what you and your guild are into, more power to ya. But exactly like I said, only cutting edge tryhards cared about the removal of masterloot.
    I love the "plays it more like a job than a game". I would say .. I know a few people more towards top 30-100 that are like that but after that not really. I only raid mythic twice a week, 8 hours total, usually was doing 1-2 M+ every week to get 475, and then highest vision I could and just the 3 assaults. Have killed mythic nzoth 7 times now progressing super casual... I know ALOT of people who arent very far into mythic or dont mythic raid at all who play this game WAY...WAY...more than I do. i would say people who are into M+ play this game a hell of a lot more than raiders do although there is some sort of overlap there obviously where people do both.
    Last edited by Nubulous; 2020-07-12 at 05:52 AM.

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by MrLachyG View Post
    here's another quote: "So the exact quantities are still evolving (please don't quote me 100% on this) but notably for Mythic+ it will be one item from the end-of-run chest that is repeatable." literally the first line there. so there is a chance that will change. I think it definitely will as there has always been a greater reward for 3 chesting a key than if you 1 chest a key. so yeah still being determined
    It stands to reason that they're still discussing options. I personally think 1 piece of gear is too little. Obviously opinions on this change run the gamut between "worst thing ever" and "much needed change" (like pretty much everything on this forum) but despite me generally being in favor of letting developers develop their game, this is one change that, if made (imo), would have a very negative impact on the M+ scene.

  11. #151
    Quote Originally Posted by Wuusah View Post
    I even quoted the part where you said it...
    lol no you didnt because guess what? i never said it.

    Edit: When i said how it titanforges obviously i meant corrupts because it literally titanforging with a new shed of pain. Also guess what going away? you guessed it Corruption(literally titanforging 2.0).
    Last edited by Malix Farwin; 2020-07-12 at 07:25 AM.

  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    They are both irrelevant that's why I say there is no reason to nerf M+ even more.



    BFA had titanforging which made M+ viable. The last patch didn't but had gear from visions and corruptions so that you could compete with mythic raiders for at least a few months (when it matters). Shadowlands as it stands doesn't have anything of the sort, and M+ is just gonna turn into nothing more but a burden for raiders instead of a proper endgame path.
    Barely anyone is raiding mythic. Saying everything but mythic raid gear is irrelevant is ignorant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malix Farwin View Post
    lol no you didnt because guess what? i never said it.

    Edit: When i said how it titanforges obviously i meant corrupts because it literally titanforging with a new shed of pain. Also guess what going away? you guessed it Corruption(literally titanforging 2.0).
    It doesn't matter what you meant. It matters what you said. You said titanforging, got called out for that, then said you didn't SAY titanforging. We cannot read minds here, my dude. Articulate yourself.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Raspberry Lemon View Post
    i play alts... it's ridiculous how fast you can gear an alt right now... i just started playing horde m+ recently and my priest on horde is 466 now... my paladin on horde is 464...
    Haha. Does ~465 really count as "geared" now? You sound like the kind of person who just throws on the highest ilvl pieces he has but in reality the gearing process at this point in the game is probably the longest it has ever been since Vanilla, considering the value of having the correct secondaries and the exclusivity of Carapace/N'zoth level Azerite. It's no one else's fault but your own if you choose to call yourself "geared" with unsocketed, uncorrupted, off-statted pieces of gear.

  14. #154
    The Patient Zarvel's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Hell, apparently
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakna View Post
    I'm curious about the engagement rates Mythic+ will have in Shadowlands. With no Titanforging or Corruption, no AP, what motivation do you have to keep running them after doing your weekly? I'm sure there are people that will run them just to push rankings and shit but they are the tiny minority. I'm scared they are going to kill their best system in years.
    This change will most definitely kill M+ as a piece of end-game content.
    Targeting off-set pieces and trinkets and trying to farm them right now with 3+ pieces of loot at the end of a dungeon is already a chore in most cases. It will only get 300% more annoying and harder to get that 1 piece. And it will cause a lot of griefing in random groups because nobody will want to complete a key where it seems like it's not going to go smooth, especially because it'll feel like a shitty carry with just 1 piece of loot that may never go your way. If you think pugging is horrible now in m+, wait till this "one piece of loot" change is implemented.

    Those with access to beta and the beta forums, make the right kind of noise ASAP so they hear this feedback very early and they never implement this shit.
    For me, as a player who largely runs m+ on 17s-18s on 4-5 characters a week, M+ will definitely lose all it's appeal if it drops just 1 loot at the end of the dungeon. It was already hell to gear my characters over the course of 1-2 months in pug groups, I don't wanna imagine how long it'll take me to get my chars viable with this change.

    Raiders will never understand the sentiment of players who don't have the time to spend 12+ hours a week on raids but can spend 5-6 hours to run m+ and still challenge themselves and feel like the time investment was worth it. Stop taking m+ as a hit to your ego and support us as your fellow WoW players. It's sad to see how things are in the community on this topic.

  15. #155
    It has to happen to allow for the RNG systems that gave loot a "long tail" to be gone.

    It sucks in the short term, but in the long term, itemization is more comprehensive and more within player "control" (to seek out upgrades) and people earn the loot they earn without arbitrary dice rolls behind the scenes. Gear is back to informing enhancement to abilities rather than exclusively procs on multiple pieces. If they get Legendaries right, specifically their acquisition, it will be the first time in a while that players will truly get stronger progressively without it being too fast or slow, and without pure frustration and no relief.

    If 1 item is too low for M+, they'll note it in engagement stats pretty damn fast - a week or two at most to see people are just pursuing weekly chests and nothing else. But it's a good thing to have less loot overall.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Vakir View Post
    If 1 item is too low for M+, they'll note it in engagement stats pretty damn fast - a week or two at most to see people are just pursuing weekly chests and nothing else. But it's a good thing to have less loot overall.
    My fear is that a poor roll out of this change could change M+ irreversibly, even if they eventually realize it's an issue and revert it later on down the road. Blizzard has a track record of having conceptually grandiose ideas (see: Azerite) which -- once sprung onto the playerbase -- end up playing out entirely different than they may have intended, leading to them having to piecemeal solutions to problems they created. I'll concede that I'm perhaps being a bit histrionic in my fears but there is definitely precedent for this kind of thing.

  17. #157
    The Patient Zarvel's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Hell, apparently
    Posts
    272
    Quote Originally Posted by Queen of Hamsters View Post
    Thank God.

    If I want to run dungeons, I'll run dungeons. Once I've done so 50+ times per dungeon however, I'd rather stab myself with a fork than continue doing it over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... Yet that's what became expected of raiders in Legion and BfA.

    Sucks for those only doing dungeons as their endgame though, for sure.
    You're deluding yourself with that thought process.
    Do you really think raiders won't be required to farm that 1 oh-so-good trinket from that 1 particular dungeon if you wish to raid mythic to optimize yourselves?
    At least in BFA your chance of receiving that piece of loot you really want is like (1/16)x3 or (1/20)x3 or so based on number of pieces of loot from a dungeon for your loot spec if the key completed in time. Now it's gonna be [(1/16)x3]/3 or [(1/20)x3]/3 times the chance of getting what you need. It's objectively worse for everyone.

  18. #158
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    I'd encourage you to actually read my fucking post before responding in the future. Most specifically, the sentence right after that.
    You have yet to explain why m+ deserves to be an easier path to gear than raiding. If you could please link the blue that states that m+ is intended to be the preferred gearing method that would be fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nizah View Post
    why so mad bro

  19. #159
    Immortal Zka's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    hungary
    Posts
    7,241
    Quote Originally Posted by sykretts View Post
    Raiders will never understand the sentiment of players who don't have the time to spend 12+ hours a week on raids but can spend 5-6 hours to run m+ and still challenge themselves and feel like the time investment was worth it. Stop taking m+ as a hit to your ego and support us as your fellow WoW players. It's sad to see how things are in the community on this topic.
    Exactly this. I've got tired of raiding, but I still love m+ exactly because it's fun, challenging and rewarding. I don't particularly mind if there is less loot, but 1 piece feels like a bit too few.

  20. #160
    Elemental Lord
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    8,441
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    It stands to reason that they're still discussing options. I personally think 1 piece of gear is too little. Obviously opinions on this change run the gamut between "worst thing ever" and "much needed change" (like pretty much everything on this forum) but despite me generally being in favor of letting developers develop their game, this is one change that, if made (imo), would have a very negative impact on the M+ scene.
    I agree, 1 piece no matter how well you do in the dungeon is definitely too little. hopefully they change it, even if it is 1 piece per chest so between 1 and 3 pieces depending on how well you do

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •