horrible horrific vision concept...

[Relapses]

well, after seeing his 'i got fired video' and watching theses..... I'm glad he's out of the spotlight. He's toxic as fuck. He's up there with dmbrandon from smite. Who talks to people like that?

Reminds me of the old days of raiding where people would belittle people just to do it.

Yeah, I don't think Rich really wanted to bring that up in his "moving on" video. (This is almost assuredly why he said "this time it's different.") I was actually on his side up until I saw the VODs of him raging. Asmongold actually reacted to it too and took his side but uhhhh... yeah. You can tell Blizzard their game sucks without straight up flaming your entire audience. The ants in Bobby Kotick's maze bit though... I might actually use that. It's a great meme.

[Hypasonic]

I mean the timing aspect of visions was lost when we reached r12+ on our cloaks, and at r15 its not about running them as fast as possible its actually the opposite. Slow and steady wins the race, you only had to rush against the timer when the sanity was actually draining when the cloaks were low rank.

[Wuusah]

It's clear some people don't like 'learning the hard way'.

The point is that vision mechanics are annoying, not that they are hard. Imagine fighting a raid boss who is constantly trying to CC you, you get constantly slowed, thrown around the boss arena, there are aoe zones everywhere and all players place them on the ground. Imagine there are 10 buff items that players can pick up in that raid fight, one per player in a 10 man raid, but it's still 10 of those buff items with 20 or 30 players.

Yes, you can play it right and not get fucked by those mechanics. But even then it's not really fun. It's all "unfun" mechanics mixed together into one game mode. Doing a good job doesn't change that it's still not fun. It's like playing arena against a destro wl team. If you lose it feels unfair and shitty. If you win, it's still not fun because hugging the pillar for 10 minutes because you get stunned, feared and rooted all the time when you leave is not something people enjoy.

5 masks is something I do because I want the 470 item, but it's not a fun part of the game. Not because I fail, I have no problem beating it. It's simply annoying.

[ZazuuPriest]

How did I fuck up? I jumped on to a bridge using a spell that was targeted, the game should have given me a no path but it literally leaped into the water. This isn't normal behaviour, not something that would happen in a million years normally. Normally you cannot leap from a platform into water, it would give no path available. And normal if you click the bridge and no path is available it won't leap.

Usually I make that leap every time, for some reason this time it put me in the water (as in it jumped and made a big huff of dirt on landing, but landed on top of the water). At that point I have no control over the situation, nor did I have any control over putting myself into that situation since it's not something you can predict. In hindsight I can know "don't leap there, it can bug".. This is no different from for example a mob knocking you back into terrain where you get stuck, you have no control over that.

So no, I objectively did not fuck up. The game fucked up and I got punished for it.


Also : Even though you didn't address me. 5 mask at low ilvl is harder than mythic raiding, at high ilvl it's easy and casual.. I mean it's pretty dumb to attribute a difficulty here when difficulty is relative to gear. If numbers were higher 5 mask would be the toughest content in game currently, on a par with high M+.

maybe if you used the spell as intended you could have see nthe green circle for the leap in the water and not on the bridge. This is 100% your fault. You take a risk with a mouse cursor macro and this time it bit you in the ass. Cry more on the actualy forums if you think this was a mechanical gameplay issue and not you fucking up

[h4rr0d]

split personality is predictable, and it has 5 seconds or so of your screen glowing purple before it procs. enough time to sit still
Just learn to play dude

It might be just me, but sometimes it feels, that the purple haze is there for 2 seconds tops, especially when I'm on a mount or so.

At first I hated visions with burning passion, because I didn't like the timed concept of them. Once I got elite extermination trait and some decent cloak ranks, I started liking them, because the timed part slowly stopped being a factor. Getting first full clear and then first 5 masks felt great, but it went dowhnill from there pretty quickly. The big issue with them is, that all endgame progression is tied to them while being very grindy, which causes them to became very stale very quickly. When they introduced echoes, I did like 8 runs on my warrior in a row. That's over 2 hours of running the same 20 minute long instance over and over again. Not fun, but easily the most efficient way of progressing my character.

At cloak rank 15 and 470 ilvl with semi-decent corruptions, 5 masked run poses no real challenge for most classes, but even then the madnesses can be very frustrating at times. Not really dangerous, just very, very annoying. Losing control of your character is never fun and the way this stuff interacts with each other in visions is very rage inducing. I usually don't rage while playing wow anymore, but the stuff that sometimes happens in visions had me seeing red more times than anything else in the game before.

I realize that most of the time it's just me messing up, pulling more than I should or just being plain old stupid, but at that particular moment it doesn't really matter. And I really don't think that is a good design for something that you need to grind as much as visions when it's legitimately the only way of progressing your character.

[kranur]

The point is that vision mechanics are annoying, not that they are hard. Imagine fighting a raid boss who is constantly trying to CC you, you get constantly slowed, thrown around the boss arena, there are aoe zones everywhere and all players place them on the ground. Imagine there are 10 buff items that players can pick up in that raid fight, one per player in a 10 man raid, but it's still 10 of those buff items with 20 or 30 players.

Yes, you can play it right and not get fucked by those mechanics. But even then it's not really fun. It's all "unfun" mechanics mixed together into one game mode. Doing a good job doesn't change that it's still not fun. It's like playing arena against a destro wl team. If you lose it feels unfair and shitty. If you win, it's still not fun because hugging the pillar for 10 minutes because you get stunned, feared and rooted all the time when you leave is not something people enjoy.

5 masks is something I do because I want the 470 item, but it's not a fun part of the game. Not because I fail, I have no problem beating it. It's simply annoying.

Agree with you.
Now I've been clearing 5 masks for a very long time and have been able to do it at like 455 ilvl.

They're not hard, it's just annoying. it's just a collection of abilities thrown together

[Grof]

The point is that vision mechanics are annoying, not that they are hard.

This and this 100%. That was the whole point when I started this tread, but some ppls who thinks they are some sort of wow gods in terms of playing are brainless or not so smart or whatever.. They are even more annoying and shitty then HV...

[Crushima]

Ok...Donald...good 4 you...Have a nice rest of the evening!!!...

Donald? You're not making sense. This may be related to your troubled masks runs.

[Grof]

Donald? You're not making sense. This may be related to your troubled masks runs.

No, no, Donald, I don't have any troubles with masks run, beside they are really annoying just like you... Also, it seems you are really, really brainless... ermm... something...

[ClassicPeon]

Yikes. Looks like AWC host Rich Campbell just lost his fucking job for raging at people over something that happened in a Vision on stream.

Clips here (NSFL warning, dude totally loses his fucking mind):

https://www.twitch.tv/richwcampbell/...=30d&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/richwcampbell/...=30d&sort=time

https://www.twitch.tv/richwcampbell/...=30d&sort=time

And the coup de grâce:

https://www.twitch.tv/richwcampbell/...=30d&sort=time

...ANTS IN BOBBY KOTICK'S MAZE!

I've been there (I think we all have) but damn.

Thats actually insane.

Gonna sound a bit memy but i honestly never really liked him. He always had interesting guests on his show, but i always found him annoying.

Anyway i'm sure he is gonna bounce back. I dont see him doing anything completely unforgivable.

- - - Updated - - -

Dark Souls comparison is just flawed.

Guess why: DS has no fokkin TIMERS. You wanna take it slow and safe? You are rewarded. You wanna speedrun? You are rewarded. You wanna tank? No prob. You wanna parry and riposte all the time? No prob. You wanna roll all the time? Again, no prob.

And, surprise, rewards are the SAME.

I like it the hard way, I have more than 1500 hours spent on the 3 Dark Souls, I can finish all of them naked with a broken sword but I HATE timers. Timers are the lazy and comfortable dev way to measure skill.

That’s why I hate horrible visions, gave up with them after 3 masks completion, it’s a type of gameplay completely opposite from my idea of fun.

The timer is there so you cant just cheese your way through by waiting for BL and all your cc cooldowns on every pull. Makes perfect sense. The timer isnt the problem on +5 masks at all, ever. I've been comfortably carrying my nub friends through +5 timers on my blood dk with only 3x dt for a while.

Whats stopping you on +5 masks is getting hit by cc and dying.

- - - Updated - - -

This and this 100%. That was the whole point when I started this tread, but some ppls who thinks they are some sort of wow gods in terms of playing are brainless or not so smart or whatever.. They are even more annoying and shitty then HV...

I get why some people find them annoying, but there are plenty of people in this thread who find them annoying because they find them hard.

Lets be clear here. If you die in there and cant do a +5, its because its hard for you. Not because its annoying.

[chiddie]

The timer is there so you cant just cheese your way through by waiting for BL and all your cc cooldowns on every pull. Makes perfect sense. The timer isnt the problem on +5 masks at all, ever. I've been comfortably carrying my nub friends through +5 timers on my blood dk with only 3x dt for a while.

Whats stopping you on +5 masks is getting hit by cc and dying.

I don’t know what is stopping me and I honestly don’t care, because as I said I HATE timers and I don’t like this type of gameplay, sorry. I like to take my time and think, not having to speedrun everything. I am quite sure there are other ways to measure skills other than timers but they probably require more coding so of course it’s better push everyone to take less time possible.

Just leave Dark Souls out of this visions shit because DS has nothing to do with this. It’s quite the opposite in every aspect.

[ClassicPeon]

I don’t know what is stopping me and I honestly don’t care, because as I said I HATE timers and I don’t like this type of gameplay, sorry. I like to take my time and think, not having to speedrun everything. I am quite sure there are other ways to measure skills other than timers but they probably require more coding so of course it’s better push everyone to take less time possible.

Just leave Dark Souls out of this visions shit because DS has nothing to do with this. It’s quite the opposite in every aspect.

And as i just explained to you, its not a speedrun.

Visions are much more forgiving then stuff like m+ when it comes to time.

If you are doing +5 masks you wont loose because you run out of sanity. You will loose because you die from CC.

[froschhure]

I loved the concept, I think catch-up mechanics should have been implanted from the very start of the patch, but it’s totally fine now. I can understand that many ppl dislike the linked corruption Resistance gathering and vision completetion. Not the best solution, but it generated time for SL

- - - Updated - - -

But I have to admit, granting non raid activities the highest Ilvl in game is pretty dope. Casuals can feel mighty and it gives some sort of meta diversity

[Bloodyleech]

And as i just explained to you, its not a speedrun.

Visions are much more forgiving then stuff like m+ when it comes to time.

If you are doing +5 masks you wont loose because you run out of sanity. You will loose because you die from CC.

Dont even try to convince him. He doesn't want to understand it.
It's clear that he is not able to see that he's wrong.
Visions are nothing about time, they are about execution, caring for all mechanics, bursting down priority targets.
As soon as you get Gift + R15 cloak, sanity is a non issue.

- - - Updated - - -

I loved the concept, I think catch-up mechanics should have been implanted from the very start of the patch, but it’s totally fine now. I can understand that many ppl dislike the linked corruption Resistance gathering and vision completetion. Not the best solution, but it generated time for SL

- - - Updated - - -

But I have to admit, granting non raid activities the highest Ilvl in game is pretty dope. Casuals can feel mighty and it gives some sort of meta diversity

The highest ilvl in game is via mythic raiding. Even m+ weekly chests are higher than 5 mask loot.

[Wuusah]

I don’t know what is stopping me and I honestly don’t care, because as I said I HATE timers and I don’t like this type of gameplay, sorry. I like to take my time and think, not having to speedrun everything. I am quite sure there are other ways to measure skills other than timers but they probably require more coding so of course it’s better push everyone to take less time possible.

Just leave Dark Souls out of this visions shit because DS has nothing to do with this. It’s quite the opposite in every aspect.

You can literally go afk, take a nice long shit, come back and still beat the vision in time. The timer isn't doing anything on a rank 15 cloak. It's not the 1-2 sanity that you lose per second that kills you. It's the 50-100 sanity that you lose in an instant because you got hit by an ability that ends your run.

The timer is not turning it into a speedrun. The timer prevents it from being cheesed. That's it. You can fight one mob group at a time throughout the whole vision at a snail's pace and still beat it. The existence of a timer doesn't automatically makes it a race against time. FF14 dungeons all have a timer of 60-120 minutes, iirc. You beat those dungeons in 15-30 minutes easily. The timer is just there so that people don't stay in there all day.

[chiddie]

You can literally go afk, take a nice long shit, come back and still beat the vision in time. The timer isn't doing anything on a rank 15 cloak. It's not the 1-2 sanity that you lose per second that kills you. It's the 50-100 sanity that you lose in an instant because you got hit by an ability that ends your run.

The timer is not turning it into a speedrun. The timer prevents it from being cheesed. That's it. You can fight one mob group at a time throughout the whole vision at a snail's pace and still beat it. The existence of a timer doesn't automatically makes it a race against time. FF14 dungeons all have a timer of 60-120 minutes, iirc. You beat those dungeons in 15-30 minutes easily. The timer is just there so that people don't stay in there all day.

No, the timer is there only to avoid you to get a 470 ilvl piece too easily.

All the mechanics in there are not there to kill you, they are there to shorter the timer as much as possible. Sorry, it’s not a gameplay I like.

I remember the first time I played Sekiro, there was this early big mob that seemed unkillable to me, after having died tons of times I tried the good old hit and run strategy. It took 5-6 minutes to kill him but it worked. I knew there was probably a better strategy but hey, it worked and I got the same reward I got on second run when I killed it super easy. This is freedom. Of course in a game where ilvl is the only important thing it could never work.

[Wuusah]

No, the timer is there only to avoid you to get a 470 ilvl piece too easily.

All the mechanics in there are not there to kill you, they are there to shorter the timer as much as possible. Sorry, it’s not a gameplay I like.

I remember the first time I played Sekiro, there was this early big mob that seemed unkillable to me, after having died tons of times I tried the good old hit and run strategy. It took 5-6 minutes to kill him but it worked. I knew there was probably a better strategy but hey, it worked and I got the same reward I got on second run when I killed it super easy. This is freedom. Of course in a game where ilvl is the only important thing it could never work.

If you think ilvl is the only important thing in the game then you are a huge noob

[chiddie]

If you think ilvl is the only important thing in the game then you are a huge noob

I don’t think it is. But it is for the 99% of the player base. The game has been centered around gear since day 1, like almost all the MMORPGs around.

I’m fine with this of course, I’m less fine in having only timed content to get a certain level of gear.

[Wuusah]

I don’t think it is. But it is for the 99% of the player base. The game has been centered around gear since day 1, like almost all the MMORPGs around.

I’m fine with this of course, I’m less fine in having only timed content to get a certain level of gear.

The timer is not a timer. It's a "fail bar". It shows you how many fails you can do before you get kicked out.

There is literally no time pressure in visions once your cloak is rank 15. Not a single person has ever failed it because of time unless they actually went afk for an extensive amount of time. If your sanity ran out, then it's because you got hit by stuff too often. They could literally remove the sanity drain over time, reduce the special skill to 1 charge and it would be pretty much the same, maybe even harder than now.

[Lolsteak]

5 masks takes skill. You have to plot a course. Plan your cds. Get good food buffs. All while not playing like a moron and watching your positioning on sw final boss. Its a fun concept. However, I enjoy ones that are specific to a single class and requires in depth knowledge of that class more.

That being said, Rexxar has a TON of rng bs before his lair. There is also 1 single mob in Org in the troll area that just shouldn't exist. It will continuously stun you with zero actions to break free. Just a continuous chain cc. That is the only instance that made me go "wtf is this bs?".

Its a great concept in all actuality. That being said, its only real downside is how gear could potentially make it a cake walk.

Eh.. 5 mask isn't as hard as you make it out to be