[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Kyanion]

we can already see the games progress so we know the game is getting tons of work done.

ehh I'd not say tons of work is getting done. They keep delaying, pushing back, releasing super bugged messes and just failing in general. You of course will think it is great.

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So you're not going to address any of his bullshit quotes?

Woah man, he won't comment on factual statements that CR or CiG has made. As long as they keep kicking that can down the road he'll keep supporting it. He's invested too much mentally and monetarily it seems.

[Easo]

In game development not even an official release date is set in stone, its up to them what they do with the game, we can already see the games progress so we know the game is getting tons of work done. You cant take anything as a guarantee in game development so stop trying to say they dont do things just like any other company does, if something is not ready they wont release it and chris has stated that for years.

So how many games did not have release date set in stone in the end?

[kenn9530]

So how many games did not have release date set in stone in the end?

Pretty much most games since they dont even advertise a release date until they are complete due to most games being developed behind closed doors, so pretty much every game in existance that had a rough release date has always been changed.

A new game being made is impossible to set a timeframe on being complete, even a company making a slightly upgraded version of something done previous is impossible to know when it will be ready.

[Easo]

Pretty much most games since they dont even advertise a release date until they are complete due to most games being developed behind closed doors, so pretty much every game in existance that had a rough release date has always been changed.

Games usually do not take 8 years to develop, though, and you actually can estimate how long it will take. After all, investors are a thing you need to answer to. Oh wait, in this case you "don't", as per your words. How convenient. Or maybe because you do not have to answer to them the game is not done yet?
Seems that for Chris the "rough" means something else. But then you will go again on and on about how unique SC is and thats why it takes forever.

[kenn9530]

Games usually do not take 8 years to develop, though, and you actually can estimate how long it will take. After all, investors are a thing you need to answer to. Oh wait, in this case you "don't", as per your words. How convenient. Or maybe because you do not have to answer to them the game is not done yet?
Seems that for Chris the "rough" means something else. But then you will go again on and on about how unique SC is and thats why it takes forever.

A game takes as long as it takes to make, when you do that we get half assed games like many recently, plus its 2 games being made not just one, when you back a game you accept the risks and challenges with it. There are plenty games to play while waiting for star citizen and you can play as much SC as you want.

[Cyclone Jack]

Pretty much most games since they dont even advertise a release date until they are complete due to most games being developed behind closed doors, so pretty much every game in existance that had a rough release date has always been changed.

A game takes as long as it takes to make

This is false. You have shown numerous times that you don't understand how game development works, how the industry works, or how the world works. Please stop.

[kenn9530]

This is false. You have shown numerous times that you don't understand how game development works, how the industry works, or how the world works. Please stop.

Its not false, a company on day 1 on concept doesnt just say the game will be ready around x date and publish a release date, they work on the game for years before they know when the actual date is, and if a game is not up to quality that release date should change but many just push out lower quality products and it hurts the games.

Also if its false why dont we have a release date on the new LOTR MMO, or even when WoW will release its next expansion, its because they dont know themselves, they may have a general idea of when they want to try and launch it but it cant always be released at that time.

[Kyanion]

Also if its false why dont we have a release date on the new LOTR MMO, or even when WoW will release its next expansion, its because they dont know themselves, they may have a general idea of when they want to try and launch it but it cant always be released at that time.

You do realize that WoW's expansion will have a release date soon despite the product not being finished, right?

[FreeHongKong]

This is the biggest scam ever.

Technology is growing so quickly, and this development has been going for so long that this project will never launch because newer technology will come out that this dumpster fire will be outdated.

[Cracked]

This is the biggest scam ever.

Technology is growing so quickly, and this development has been going for so long that this project will never launch because newer technology will come out that this dumpster fire will be outdated.

That was their whole shtick in 2012, that their tech will be mindblowingly better than anything else.

Here we are in 2020, and CIG tech is already 2-3 years outdated.

[Gungnir]

Wait, is this game still not finished yet?
I remember reading about it in fucking 2013.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Wait, is this game still not finished yet?
I remember reading about it in fucking 2013.

tldr;

• Initial Kickstarter in October 2012, was meant to be a souped up version of Freelancer (singleplayer campaign with some multiplayer servers) which was very doable within a few years using advances in tech and production pipelines

• After the success of the kickstarter, Chris got carried away and kept adding stretch goal after stretch goal. Featurecreep on end for two years. The project became less and less focused on the singleplayer campaign and more focused on the multiplayer side, which was becoming this crazy huge MMO. New ships were sold all the time based off of completely newly made up ideas, such as a $420 ship based around science gameplay (five years later and no science gameplay is in yet, let alone the actual ship itself). Eventually they stopped with the stretch goals but by then it was too late and there were a billion things to implement.

• Alpha servers for the MMO launched in December 2015. New features, ships, and locations have been added to the alpha since but as of July 2020 it's still just one star system and servers are capped at 50 players each, and servers crash often (the patch coming next month in August/September is supposed to fix this... we'll see about that).

• Biggest problem ATM is that after 5 years, alpha gameplay is very stale. The implementation of features is very slow (supposedly because the devs are working on the singleplayer campaign) but the one change they could do that would breathe life into the game (MMO side) the most would be to raise the server caps from 50 players to 200 or so. Also it's 2020 and there is hardly any footage of the current iteration singleplayer campaign (development has apparently restarted a few times).

I personally think SC is very fun, but if you've been following along it does feel like it takes forever for anything to happen. One new planet every year to 9 months; a new ships every 6 to 9 months, a new gameplay loop every year and a half, etc. That's basically the crux of the discussion in this thread for the past 500 pages; Star Citizen development is often viewed as "too little, too late". Sure, SC has made astounding breakthroughs but the public doesn't care about that (nor should they really). They care about getting a working, fun game, and, well... see the aforementioned problems.

[Cracked]

• After the success of the kickstarter, Chris got carried away and kept adding stretch goal after stretch goal. Featurecreep on end for two years. The project became less and less focused on the singleplayer campaign and more focused on the multiplayer side, which was becoming this crazy huge MMO. New ships were sold all the time based off of completely newly made up ideas, such as a $420 ship based around science gameplay (five years later and no science gameplay is in yet, let alone the actual ship itself). Eventually they stopped with the stretch goals but by then it was too late and there were a billion things to implement.

Do you know how many types of ships they sold so far and how many actually got into a playable state at some point?

[Henako]

Wait, is this game still not finished yet?
I remember reading about it in fucking 2013.

It's not even close. It's barely more than a tech demo atm, and even that doesn't work.

[Gungnir]

-snip-

Fucking hell in a handbasket, that's a rough one.
I'm surprised they keep piling on things they want to do, and start working on those things before they have an actual stable game with some good core mechanics that the public can play after nearly 9 years of development. That's pretty much development no-no 101.

Not to mention that they're now effectively running pretty thin on a deadline, not only for the fanbase' sake but also from a technical standpoint. I can't imagine realizing that you're going to have to upgrade your entire engine database when you're attempting to make a game this big would be any fun.
In fact I am fairly sure it would be a complete nightmare.


I remember being interested in this game back when I read about it as I've always enjoyed large, sprawling games with a lot of choices.
Which is also why I purchased Escape from Tarkov a while back, which was also a very ambitious project from a previously unknown studio, yet they've released a stable version for people to play that had the core game and they're continuously adding new things on a monthly basis.
I guess it just shows the difference in philosophies regarding how one should develop a game.. and I have to say that I prefer the latter rather than the former.

It's not even close. It's barely more than a tech demo atm, and even that doesn't work.

Oof.

[Cracked]

Not to mention that they're now effectively running pretty thin on a deadline, not only for the fanbase' sake but also from a technical standpoint.

Well, the thing you have to understand about this project is that their rabid fanbase holds them to no deadline, even the ones they set for themselves.

[cateran100]

I don't understand how you can just say that and accept it as a fact.
I'm not invested in the game and I only follow things on the side and it's always good for some amusement to me.
But if I had backed this project several years back I would be furious by now.

It's like... they promise to invest into reasearch/medicine that cures cancer and cancer patients gladly give them money for it, but a few years later they won't release that medicine because they also want it to cure dementia, then 3 years later it's COPD and now 6 years later it's COVID.

Just give me the freaking cancer medicine, that's what people originally paid for. If they had enough money for all of those things, sure, get them done, but don't delay the original product for like 6 flipping years because of that.

It's almost a given by now that the game is going to be mediocre and not going to work like they intended, because game development just doesn't freaking work like that - never did, not a single case when it ever did.
You can't just pile shit onto your original plan and expect it to work out properly.
Why won't they release the main product, and add DLC/Expansions on top of it at a later time?

The main reason is most likely: They don't have a product yet and if you work on it for several years and game and console generations, it's just going to be a mess the bigger you go.

It's a con artist's dream.

This...it is a perfect milking cow as long ppl ***** enough to pay for a nonexistent thing.....(not too) long time ago testers getting paid for testing, nowadays ppl pay for being a guinea pig....and this game is the epitome of scam (the game itself is not even on the horizon, but already contains real money content..Frankly, EA just crying in the corner...)

[Gungnir]

Well, the thing you have to understand about this project is that their rabid fanbase holds them to no deadline, even the ones they set for themselves.

That seems fairly scarily accurate.
Was reading back a few pages and I keep seeing a few names pop up with replies reading like bad Trump tweets.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Do you know how many types of ships they sold so far and how many actually got into a playable state at some point?

For ships that had concept sales, I believe 30 out of 59 ships are currently in game (see below). That said, not all of them are able to do so as they were advertised in their concept sale. For example, the Recliamer (salvage ship) has been in the game for years, but no salvage gameplay has been implemented yet, so you can fly your $350 ship around but you can't do anything with it besides admire it.


concept ship tally (off of the top of my head, not counting variants or straight to flyables or ground vehicles)

Spoiler: 

F&C Hornet - IN
Constellation - IN
Mustang - IN
Terrapin - IN
Polaris - NO
Hurricane - IN
Khartu-Al - IN
Starfarer - IN
Avenger - IN
Buccaneer - IN
Aurora - IN
Gladius - IN
P-52 Merlin - IN
Carrack - IN
W/C8X - IN
Redeemer - NO
Herald - IN
Javelin - NO
Merchantman - NO
ARES - NO
Kraken - NO
Freelancer - IN
Cutlass - IN
Caterpillar - IN
890 - IN
300i - IN
m50 - in
600i - in
Origin racing ships - no
Nautilus - no
Corsair - no
Santok.yai - no
arrow - in
mercury star runner - no
Apollo - no
Vulture - no
hammerhead - yes
javelin - no
hawk - yes
Pioneer - no
sabre - yes
banu defender - yes
vanguard - yes
hull e - no
hull d - no
hull c - no
hull b - no
hull a - no
scythe - yes
idris - no
reclaimer - yes nonfunctional
orion - no
retailiatio - no
reliant - yes
genesis - no
endeavor - no
crucible - no
Hercules - no

[Cyclone Jack]

Its not false, a company on day 1 on concept doesnt just say the game will be ready around x date and publish a release date, they work on the game for years before they know when the actual date is, and if a game is not up to quality that release date should change but many just push out lower quality products and it hurts the games.

Also if its false why dont we have a release date on the new LOTR MMO, or even when WoW will release its next expansion, its because they dont know themselves, they may have a general idea of when they want to try and launch it but it cant always be released at that time.

It is absolutely false. The developer typically has a rough estimate, because that is part of the contract between the developer and the publisher. Delays happen, and it is up to the publisher to determine whether to continue funding the project or not, which is typically based on how far along the game is, and if they believe that the game can be fixed with a short delay. If the issue is deep-rooted, then its possible that the project is instead just cancelled. We get half-assed and buggy games, because in the real world budgets are limited and at a certain point the publisher decides to release the game and try to get some sort of return on investment. If the game is successful, then the developers might be allowed to work on some patches.

I can guarantee that Blizzard has a rough estimate of when their next expansion will be released before they even start on it, because they need to budget the project. Of course they don't know the exact date, but they know what quarter they are trying to release and have budgeted accordingly. This is how all large projects work.

And yet, here we have CIG with nearly half a billion dollars and eight years of development, and their project is in a perpetual Alpha state, with an incomplete flight model, numerous core mechanics nowhere to be seen, features delayed year after year, and a single player game that went from "nearly playable" to not even out of grey box, which means they have either been blatantly lying, or started over due to feature creep. CIG has some extremely talented people working there, as anyone can see by testing the alpha (I can't call it a game, because there is no gameplay loop), but their management is utterly and astonishingly abysmal.