Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Katchii]

My post was directed specifically at the question posed by the poster I was responding to

It boggles my mind that you guys have no way of stopping such a person. Ho much harm does he need to cause in order for him to get kicked out?

And I simply pointed out that the amount of harm he does is dwarfed by the amount of harm the people that willingly follow him do to themselves and those around them, considering Trump has very little direct control over any one specific citizen...they are able to make choices themselves.

Please explain why 23% of US deaths from coronavirus are in 1 state and it is more than the next 3 combined. New York doesn't seem to want the President's help now. And the media that is insanely anti President has been saying how well New York has handled this. 23% of all deaths and they are handling it well? But that is Trump's fault. If you throw in New Jersey, that region counts 34% of all deaths.

Because there are idiots in that state who can't seem to follow the guidelines issued by the CDC?

You say the major problem is Trump followers. These are democratic party run states and have low Trump followers, please explain why they are doing worse. Here is another head-scratch er, why is California doing so well, as a democrat party run state it is only 5% of the deaths and make up only 2% of cases reported in the state. How are they doing so well, but New York/New Jersey are not? Got to be all those Trump followers, according to you.

Funny thing about public health issues and pandemics, is that it only takes a few stupid people to ruin it for everybody. Democratic run states still have Republicans in them, and people that follow Trump.

That said, I'm not blaming it entirely on Trump followers, though a large portion of them seem to have trouble following the guidelines. I just blame idiots. It just so happens that many of the folks who follow Trump and believe his rhetoric about this pandemic ARE idiots.... but Democrats can be idiots too.

Also this from @Edge specifically the bolded part at the end.

Because they aren't, not anymore. Like their deaths, new daily cases have similarly been trending downward since mid-April, while we're seeing largely Republican led states like Florida peaking and still growing.

They're doing better because each state is different, each states response is different, and each population is different. It's complex and there's no easy answer, despite many of us wishing there were. But to discount the significance that Trump and his adherents have played in this affair is nonsense.

[Elegiac]

So, Gavin Newsom has shut down places of worship. This of course is not in accordance with the federal guidance, under President Donald Trump, that places of worship are essential, which they are. Many churches near where I live went to great lengths to meet the distancing requirements, the sanitation requirements, all of the requirements (of which there were double-digit), and I suppose they are expected to close again. Outdoor services are still available according to the order, so I hope churches are able to accommodate.

New York City Mayor Bill De Blasio recently stated that Black Lives Matter protests are exempt from the large event restrictions that have been implemented. Presumably, the threat of what is referred to as systemic racism, and the death it causes, is too important to restrict. Over 1,000 health care workers signed their names to a letter stating that, "...opposition to racism [is] vital to the public health...". Well, I'd like to suggest that opposition to sin is vital to the public health. Every malady we suffer as humankind is the result of sin, of disobedience to God, and many die because of it's destructive consequences. Keeping churches open is vital to public well-being.

As such, under the exact same rationale used to justify the close-proximity contact, and in demonstrable cases non-mask-wearing congregations of Black Lives Matter protests, I fully intend to keep attending church and fight for their right to stay open. Don't worry about who can destroy the body, worry about the one who can destroy both the body and the soul. For what profit is it if you gain the whole world (including your short life), if it costs you your very soul?

Isn't the entire reason you lot aren't Catholic because you decided you didn't need priests to act as intermediaries? Church is not an essential business because, without getting into the theology of it, from the perspective of a secular government it is a book club and should be treated as such - it is indoors, often with poor ventilation, and many churchgoers are in at risk groups.

The answer is no. Allah can find it in their heart to forgive missing church in order to save the life of thy neighbor.

[Edge-]

So, Gavin Newsom has shut down places of worship. This of course is not in accordance with the federal guidance, under President Donald Trump, that places of worship are essential, which they are.

No they're bloody not.

Many churches near where I live went to great lengths to meet the distancing requirements, the sanitation requirements, all of the requirements (of which there were double-digit), and I suppose they are expected to close again. Outdoor services are still available according to the order, so I hope churches are able to accommodate.

So...churches are being treated the same as places like restaurants. Which is good, especially given that we've seen tons of churches across the country defying orders and getting their congregants infected.

New York City Mayor Bill De Blasio recently stated that Black Lives Matter protests are exempt from the large event restrictions that have been implemented. Presumably, the threat of what is referred to as systemic racism, and the death it causes, is too important to restrict. Over 1,000 health care workers signed their names to a letter stating that, "...opposition to racism [is] vital to the public health...". Well, I'd like to suggest that opposition to sin is vital to the public health. Every malady we suffer as humankind is the result of sin, of disobedience to God, and many die because of it's destructive consequences. Keeping churches open is vital to public well-being.

Without getting into religious discussion, the data from previous protests indicates that there's largely minimal risk of spread from these protests. The reasons why are a bit more complicated, but the conservatives predicting explosions of transmission following the protests were pretty disappointed when it didn't happen.

Keeping churches open isn't gonna stop cops from choking black people to death or shooting them in the back. It hasn't thus far, and I'm not sure why you think it would change anything.

As such, under the exact same rationale used to justify the close-proximity contact, and in demonstrable cases non-mask-wearing congregations of Black Lives Matter protests, I fully intend to keep attending church and fight for their right to stay open. Don't worry about who can destroy the body, worry about the one who can destroy both the body and the soul. For what profit is it if you gain the whole world (including your short life), if it costs you your very soul?

If you think your soul is lost because you can't go into a building, there may be bigger problems. That being said, governments aren't terribly interested in the soul, that's a rather personal thing. They are, however, very interested in our corporeal existence as that's what they can and do govern, not our non-corporeal afterlives, whether they exist or not.

[Elegiac]

No they're bloody not.

So...churches are being treated the same as places like restaurants. Which is good, especially given that we've seen tons of churches across the country defying orders and getting their congregants infected.

Without getting into religious discussion, the data from previous protests indicates that there's largely minimal risk of spread from these protests. The reasons why are a bit more complicated, but the conservatives predicting explosions of transmission following the protests were pretty disappointed when it didn't happen.

Keeping churches open isn't gonna stop cops from choking black people to death or shooting them in the back. It hasn't thus far, and I'm not sure why you think it would change anything.

If you think your soul is lost because you can't go into a building, there may be bigger problems. That being said, governments aren't terribly interested in the soul, that's a rather personal thing. They are, however, very interested in our corporeal existence as that's what they can and do govern, not our non-corporeal afterlives, whether they exist or not.

We have Sikh doctors and nurses shaving their beards so they can wear PPE and devout Muslims forgoing both the Hajj and daily calls to prayer for the sake of public health but hey, being unable to stew in sweaty, COVID-laced air in an old building without ventilation for a few hours every Sunday is a violation of my rights. /s

[Adam Jensen]

https://www.newsweek.com/florida-ant...-surge-1517361





This is America, and America is not prepared to effectively fight a pandemic.

We were prepared.

We had a whole playbook and everything. We were wholly prepared for all of this.

But Orange Fuckface decided to throw that all away because "it might hurt his re-election chances" (at least, in his tiny sized brain anyways)

[Draco-Onis]

We were prepared.

We had a whole playbook and everything. We were wholly prepared for all of this.

But Orange Fuckface decided to throw that all away because "it might hurt his re-election chances" (at least, in his tiny sized brain anyways)

He also had months and months to prepare for this moment instead decided that this would go away in the summer. Now we are back to PPE and testing shortages, it's groundhog day except now it's all over the red states.

[PhaelixWW]

Fallacy is all the behavior that comes from the subconscient...

That's not even remotely what a fallacy is.

It's a fallacy because people gets tricked by this mind behavior...

People are hardly ever "tricked" by a first impression. The mind processes a lot of data, and a first impression is made in a split second based on observable data. A person may change their mind based upon more complete subsequent data, but that doesn't invalidate the fact that the initial impression was made on actual data.

I was using this example to prove that the mind DOES prioritise visuals over other information, and you already shifting from the point.

The human mind makes a first impression largely based on sight only because that's the majority of the data that one has in that split second. It's ridiculous to say the the mind prioritizes sight, though. Scent is more closely linked to memory, and when a scent is present at the moment of a first impression, it can and does play a huge part. This is why realtors bake cookies before an open house.

I used it top compare reproductive numbers and give the example that underdeveloped nations in Africa DID managed to controll it and wipe out the virus, how the hell can't i use it as a valid argument?

Because they're wildly different viruses. I mean, I literally laid out the reasoning for you two months ago when you tried to make the bad comparison:

Ebola doesn't have asymptomatic cases. It also doesn't have an infectious incubation period. If you're symptomatic, you're contagious. If you're not symptomatic, you're not contagious.

At that point, it's very simple to isolate anybody who has Ebola symptoms, and by doing so, you've locked down the transmission.

That's simply not possible for a virus like SARS-CoV-2, which is infectious during the last few days of incubation, and which is extremely often asymptomatic while still being infectious for weeks after the incubation period ends.

The one who seems to be not listening its you, not me.

Utterly hilarious, considering the fact that you just repeated the same question that I answered for you two months ago.

[Forogil]

Did you read the article? It cites two major froms of transmission: droplets and aerosols. It then goes on to say how the virus remains suspended in active form for hours.

I read the actual article, not the piece where an UC Davis professor discusses it.

Or to once more quote it:

It has not been solved if SARS-CoV-2 might spread through aerosols from respiratory droplets;

It cites studies indicating that the existence of aerosol (outside of hospital procedures) is unclear; and it then shows that physical distancing of 1 m is about as important as masks (primarily real masks N95/surgical; not home made ones) - which indicates that aerosol spread is either non-existent or substantially less important than droplets.
And there are no studies showing that the virus expelled normally stays in the air for hours and then infects people to any noticeable degree.

However, aerosol-spread "sells"; and thus the professor uses a vague term "second major form of transmission".

https://www.vox.com/science-and-heal...t-transmission

Which is an interesting article, that balances it more. However, if you then combine that with the previously cited study that mask-mandates changed behaviour and caused a sharp increase in people going to restaurants (indoors ones) it is not clear that cloth masks are even helping.

It ends with:

Public health officials have continually stressed social distancing, mask-wearing, and hand-washing as ways to stop the spread of Covid-19. “But have you ever heard a restaurant reopening announce they’ve improved ventilation or increased ventilation? No. This is really the point,” Morawska says. If Covid-19 is in indoor air, we should also be doing something about the air.

[Granyala]

So, Gavin Newsom has shut down places of worship. This of course is not in accordance with the federal guidance, under President Donald Trump, that places of worship are essential, which they are.

I fully intend to keep attending church and fight for their right to stay open. Don't worry about who can destroy the body, worry about the one who can destroy both the body and the soul. For what profit is it if you gain the whole world (including your short life), if it costs you your very soul?

Sorry to break it to you, mate but no. They are not essential at all. At least not for the Christian religion.
Christianity is not about you going to Church, it is about you having a personal relationship to your God.

All that is required is his word (a Bible), a quiet place and prayer.

If you read the Bible carefully, you will realize that it would actually be considered a sin to be selfish and want to go to Church while endangering the health and well being of others, just so you feel better about yourself. Trust me: there is no need to fear for your soul just because you don't have 100s of people sitting & singing next to you on Sundays. Especially since in these times, you can use technology to still hear your preacher of choice w/o physically being there, in case you feel that you really do need additional guidance past personal study of the Bible.

I cannot speak for other religions, as I do not have enough knowledge about them.

[szechuan]

Absolutely Horrifying, Gavin Newsom and the Teachers Union should be ashamed if they let this happen.


https://twitter.com/CBSLA/status/1282911452240793601

[Granyala]

Oof, with infection # this high and contact tracing not being viable for you, that is indeed a dangerous move.

[Elegiac]

Absolutely Horrifying, Gavin Newsom and the Teachers Union should be ashamed if they let this happen.


https://twitter.com/CBSLA/status/1282911452240793601

Sounds like it's time for a teachers' strike.

Tbh a general strike sounds real good right about now. Nothing gets done until hazard pay and PPE are guaranteed.

[Mayhem]

We were prepared.

We had a whole playbook and everything. We were wholly prepared for all of this.

But Orange Fuckface decided to throw that all away because "it might hurt his re-election chances" (at least, in his tiny sized brain anyways)

How fucked up must your brain be to think "saving people will make them not re-elect me". I mean, wat!?

[zorkuus]

How fucked up must your brain be to think "saving people will make them not re-elect me". I mean, wat!?

When has he ever done anything but pander to the most crazy sections of his base? It's probably best not to try to understand the thought process of an idiot.

[Granyala]

How fucked up must your brain be to think "saving people will make them not re-elect me". I mean, wat!?

Keep in mind most corporate people are interested in short term profits and risk long term stability in order to maximize it.
It's basically the same line of thinking that applies here.

[Soulwind]

How fucked up must your brain be to think "saving people will make them not re-elect me". I mean, wat!?

Saving people by bombing other people is a sign of strength, and people vote for that. But saving people by implementing safety measures and absorbing the economical impact is a sign of weakness, and people vote against that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Gorsameth]

How fucked up must your brain be to think "saving people will make them not re-elect me". I mean, wat!?

Having a major pandemic happen will likely hurt any Presidents re-election, even if it is dealt with well. Just because there is any impact on people at all.

Which is not to say that Trump was anything but retardedly stupid, but the concept that no disease would be better then a well handled disease is technically correct.
To bad no disease was not an option.

[Adam Jensen]

How fucked up must your brain be to think "saving people will make them not re-elect me". I mean, wat!?

Because this fucking idiot believes that high coronavirus cases = bad news = people will blame him. He focuses on the numbers and not on the solution. It's insanely idiotic.

[Draco-Onis]

Having a major pandemic happen will likely hurt any Presidents re-election, even if it is dealt with well. Just because there is any impact on people at all.

Which is not to say that Trump was anything but retardedly stupid, but the concept that no disease would be better then a well handled disease is technically correct.
To bad no disease was not an option.

The saddest part of all this is if Trump handled the virus correctly he would be winning by a landslide, if you look at the countries where the virus was handled well their leader's approval ratings are at an all time high.

[Gorsameth]

The saddest part of all this is if Trump handled the virus correctly he would be winning by a landslide, if you look at the countries where the virus was handled well their leader's approval ratings are at an all time high.

those countries didn't have so many Americans living in them.