Page 3 of 13 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
5
... LastLast
  1. #41
    I thought the situation between Thrall and the Nightelves was handled really good. An Earthen Ring shaman wants him to investigate why the spirits go crazy and Thrall is the only orc with ties strong enough to the Nightelves to even be allowed to go to Hyjal. Under the condition that he brings what is owed. He doesn't know what that is, but he goes anyway and even brings Baine and Calia.
    When they arrive Tyrande won't speak to them and he apologizes. She then tells him, where he can shove his apology and the other Shaman starts making them leave, because he thinks she is going to kill them. But Thrall doesn't want to leave it at that without another try. He realizes what it is Tyrande wants from the Horde, promises to bring it, Tyrande nods and smiles and they leave. They get no cooperation from the Nightelves, but none of them get killed either.
    I liked the way Tyrande, Shandris and Maiev were kind of a triumvirate speaking with the same intent, but different tempers.

  2. #42
    People forget how recent are the Horde and The Alliance, before that, just a few years ago, there was none of this, only orcs, elves, humans etc. Thrall and Sylvanas knew each other much before Horde or Alliance existed, for them their loyalty is primarily for their people, not for the faction.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    Well, to be fair, it's the world of warcraft after all.

    Though the faction war should have been over with Pandaria. Or at least, pandaren should have been prominent in ending BFA's conflict...
    Okay, yes, I should have specified Alliance vs Horde, the Eletric Boogaloo No. XXX war.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  4. #44
    Epic!
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Your kind will never change, and I will never stop fighting you.
    Posts
    1,706
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    Ah yes, because war war war is the way things must be, right?
    In Warcraft? Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    BfA will be know as the worst lore expansion ever, it damaged so much that we will need years and shit like this to make amends, but the scar will be always there, it will be forever be know as the shit version of mop, the expansion where everyone in the horde was forced to blindly follow a genocide like completely retards ignoring previous incidents and the alliance accept their sincerely apologies likely completely fools because plot demands.
    I mean that's on to par with how things go every couple of years, genocides and forgiveness, genocides and forgiveness. This expac is really lame regarding how the factions handled the latest war but SL still has a chance to be the worst lore expac since it'll be touching and rearranging a lot of lore beyond just the factions. I think the worst is still yet to come.
    "I have the most loyal fanboys. Did you ever see that? Where I could stand by Thoradin's Wall and massacre my own people and I wouldn't lose any fanboys. It's like incredible." - Sylvanas Windrunner

    "If you kill your enemies, they win." - Anduin Wrynn

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    they way they wrote that lame ass plot of everyone following sylvanus blindly make all this "im so sorry" talk look so fucking shit and cringe, the awful thing is that they write this crap and now are doing this, like it make sense or people will like it

    Thrall was not even in this world and he did nothing when hear about it

    BfA will be know as the worst lore expansion ever, it damaged so much that we will need years and shit like this to make amends, but the scar will be always there, it will be forever be know as the shit version of mop, the, expansion where everyone in the horde was forced to blindly follow a genocide like completely retards ignoring previous incidents and the alliance accept their sincerely apologies likely completely fools because plot demands.

    Sure an expansion for both factions to love
    Well, you are right on this. I believe they had one great story of faction war in their mind, with several secondary stories which complemented it and their original intention was to paint a brutal war which forces both sides to do questionable acts. The initial rejection of their "master piece" probably made them change their plans, which resulted even in greater mess and utter destruction of any consistency they originaly had.

    Or it was bad story even in the beginning. Who knows.

    On the other hand, I kind of enjoyed Zandalar and Kul Tiran storylines. Exploring Zandalar and exposing corruption in Rastakhan's court was well done and I enjoyed uniting Kul Tiras as well. Those were lore peaks of the expansion... but it is, unfortunately, not enough to redeem whole expansion of lore mess.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    In Warcraft? Yes.
    So gotta ask you this - you really want to see Alliance vs Horde war again and then again? It will always end in status quo, you do realize that?
    War can be with basically anything else, not the old overused formula...
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadoowpunk View Post
    Take that haters.
    IF IM STUPID, so is Donald Trump.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    So gotta ask you this - you really want to see Alliance vs Horde war again and then again? It will always end in status quo, you do realize that?
    War can be with basically anything else, not the old overused formula...
    War... War(craft) never changes...

    I'm fairly certain they will never really give up on that. Even now its just a armistice.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Ah yes... diplomacy is no boot licking. What is he supposed to do? Bury his axe in her head?
    Yes. Tyrande's death is the best thing that can happen for both the Horde and night elves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by StaeleAilar View Post
    PERIOD. Legitimately what annoys me with the story of WoW. War Crime> we so sorry > genocide > oops > genocide. And alliance just every time its ok guys dw just dont do it again.
    And Horde for some reason always surrenders in half of the war.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Or maybe Thrall simply sympathizes with Tyrande for the horrible genocide the Horde committed upon her people under Sylvanas' tyranny.
    He should not sympathize with that lumberjack-killing witch.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    "Hey Tyrande, I bring you the apologies from the Horde but Ashenvale is ours now, you known. But know that we are very veeeeeerrryyy sorry."
    So we need to kneel, lick her boots and then give her Ashenvale? Why?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    Under their rule the Horde suffered, bled, and shattered. The storyline highlights this many times. Both Garrosh and Sylvanas drove the Horde into civil war and ruin.

    Blood elves and forsaken remain Horde races thanks to warchiefs like Thrall and Vol'jin, who treated the Horde as an actual family and not just as pawns for war. That's why these races sided against Garrosh and Sylvanas (once she revealed her true sinister nature).
    No. It was Baine who causes civil wars and ruin by betraying Horde in every single moment.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LuminaL View Post
    ah dont worry she will be batted with villain bat. she is the new arthas but wont get arthas treatment because its now a MMORPG and they want to please everyone. she already said she is willing to pay any price to get sylvanas to justice, and she already picked up the frostmourne version of the night elves, which her friends warned her not to.

    one should be blind not to see all these parallels between tyrande and arthas now. undead overrun both their homes(malganis for arthas, sylvanas for tyrande), they both want justice and revenge so they venture into an unknown land (northrend for arthas, shadowlands for tyrande) they both get changed by seeking a power to be able to achieve that said revenge (frostmourne for arthas, shadow warrior for tyrande )
    Do you remember how they villain batted Jaina? It all ended when her mom hugged her.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    Tyrande's about to undergo the same story arc Jaina did Mists of Pandaria-Battle for Azeroth. Ever growing powerful person obsessed on revenge for her people, ever treading the line of insanity and evil. For years, people kept asking "when is Jaina going to be turned into a raid boss we have to kill?"
    Horde bias confirmed.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mysticx View Post
    True, if the Horde wants to distance itself from Sylvanas and what she did (Which they seem to want, rounding up most NPC Sylvanas supporters and all), some gesture of goodwill to the people they almost genocided is a must, and that it takes more than words to satisfy Tyrande is nothing more than logical, she heard the apologies before after the Garrosh-invasion, and those words proved pretty worthless, so now it's time for actions.
    The best thing to do is to kill all the night elves and erase them from history. Next generations will not remember that.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  9. #49
    It never ceases to amuse me that Maiev is a literally exiled traitor and psychopathic murderer but they needed her for legion (for some reason) so they just ignored it. Then in BFA she just gets this hand wave one line pardon because someone somewhere remembered she was still an enemy of the state. Now apparently she's part of some war council.
    Tonight for me is a special day. I want to go outside of the house of the girl I like with a gasoline barrel and write her name on the road and set it on fire and tell her to get out too see it (is this illegal)?

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Yes. Tyrande's death is the best thing that can happen for both the Horde and night elves.

    - - - Updated - - -



    And Horde for some reason always surrenders in half of the war.

    - - - Updated - - -



    He should not sympathize with that lumberjack-killing witch.

    - - - Updated - - -



    So we need to kneel, lick her boots and then give her Ashenvale? Why?

    - - - Updated - - -



    No. It was Baine who causes civil wars and ruin by betraying Horde in every single moment.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Do you remember how they villain batted Jaina? It all ended when her mom hugged her.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Horde bias confirmed.
    Sure. That will help everyone. Kill the beloved queen of a people who just barley don't kill every horde they see after a genocide by said horde. The alliance would undoubtly start a total war and there are a few horde members i am not so sure would stay with the horde at that point. Maybe not join alliance but definetly leave ans start their own diplomacy with the alliance.

    It would simply be incredibly stupid for the horde to attack now. AGAIN!

  11. #51
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    19,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyral View Post
    I mean that's on to par with how things go every couple of years, genocides and forgiveness, genocides and forgiveness.
    but not like this.

    one thing was MOP, where somehow someway it made sense because both factions where in a 'gray" war, and even when we face Garrosh the alliance was not in position to just "erase" the horde and the rebels, it made sense to enter in a state of "cold war" or cease fire, and nothing there was not moronic and stupid as teldrassil

    This expac is really lame regarding how the factions handled the latest war but SL still has a chance to be the worst lore expac since it'll be touching and rearranging a lot of lore beyond just the factions. I think the worst is still yet to come.
    i doubt anything will surpass BfA in a short run, shadowlands have the benefit of being "new places" and "new things", so they can create without fucking up too much what is established

    Character long dead will have their turn of mischaracterization be sure of that, but i think it will not be worse than BfA.

    Of course, blizzard can always surprise me.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vaedan View Post
    Well, you are right on this. I believe they had one great story of faction war in their mind, with several secondary stories which complemented it and their original intention was to paint a brutal war which forces both sides to do questionable acts. The initial rejection of their "master piece" probably made them change their plans, which resulted even in greater mess and utter destruction of any consistency they originaly had.

    Or it was bad story even in the beginning. Who knows.
    it was bad from the beginning yep, the premise was dead on arrival, they try to paint a "morally gray war" but it was just a worse version of mop, with Sylvanas committing a genocide and we blindly following because reasons and plot demands.

    the problem is they genuinely belive they are doing a great story and we just don't get their masterpiece, its our problem

    On the other hand, I kind of enjoyed Zandalar and Kul Tiran storylines. Exploring Zandalar and exposing corruption in Rastakhan's court was well done and I enjoyed uniting Kul Tiras as well. Those were lore peaks of the expansion... but it is, unfortunately, not enough to redeem whole expansion of lore mess.
    they are plenty capable of creating new stuff and minor things, the storylines of the maps were somehow good and enjoyable, those were probably made by "lesser" writers, who are not in charge of the "big picture" = faction war and general plot of the expansion.

    Being capable of creating new stuff, but they can't work with old lore or old material, they always fuck up one way or another, most of time it looks like to shit on the past to create their own legacy, like creating their own name.

  12. #52

    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    It never ceases to amuse me that Maiev is a literally exiled traitor and psychopathic murderer but they needed her for legion (for some reason) so they just ignored it. Then in BFA she just gets this hand wave one line pardon because someone somewhere remembered she was still an enemy of the state. Now apparently she's part of some war council.
    I think Jarold's intro and it says "forget that" when Maiev is going to talk about it. Make it quite clear that Wolfheart is no longer cannon with everything to do with maiev or the wardens.

    Although of course it would be great if in a moment Maiev takes power and does what he says in Wolfheart to bring his race back to glory. It was already made clear that he is not as bloodthirsty as Tyrande.

    PS: Although Wolfhear is cannon he is still more reliable for the Kaldorei than the entire Horde and the Alliance.

  13. #53
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    Darkshore, Killing Living and Dead elves
    Posts
    19,267
    Quote Originally Posted by Easo View Post
    So gotta ask you this - you really want to see Alliance vs Horde war again and then again? It will always end in status quo, you do realize that?
    War can be with basically anything else, not the old overused formula...
    i want that, good war is always good, is one of thigns that make this game fun

    we can always have a ceasefire, for reasons, then go back to fight with each other without a problem

    the big problem is how they are shoving this peace trashtalk everyone, like is everyone focus, drop that shit and we are good.

  14. #54
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    19,105
    Quote Originally Posted by eurojust View Post
    It's not a "worse state" when you end up with a more powerful faction, with more races loyal to you and more territory than ever, with your enemy getting crushed and genocided.
    Despite the night elves losing the majority of their population, before Nazjatar both the Alliance and Horde's internal estimates put the Alliance at mere weeks away from victory. Afterwards, enough of the Horde had split off from Sylvanas and joined Saurfang's rebellion that a push could be made.

    It's also worth noting that the Fourth War almost completely depleted both factions militarily, by design. Sylvanas orchestrated events to kill as many people as possible, with her only regret regarding Saurfang tricking her into outing herself being that advancing her timetable means fewer dead from the war, forcing her to pin her hopes on N'Zoth's forces to act as another meat grinder on the heels of the Fourth War and the Third Burning Legion Invasion, themselves meat grinder wars. As far back as leading up to the assault on Dazar'Alor, the Alliance had run out of trained soldiers and was about to begin conscripting farmers and peasants. Again, this is the same Alliance that was weeks away from defeating the Horde after Dazar'Alor, meaning the Horde's army was in even worse shape.

    So yes, under Sylvanas, the Horde ended up in a worse state. It was explicitly her intention to leave the Horde in a worse state, because the more people die, the stronger she gets and the better odds her plan has of working. Under Garrosh, the Horde made some gains in territory, but his increasingly-tyrannical behavior pushed his allies into open rebellion, because at the end of the day, diplomacy matters in multinational coalitions--diplomacy is what won the Nightborne over to the Horde when Liadrin spent the whole war hustling and making connections while Tyrande just used them as a chance to get a swing in on Elisande.

    Blood Elves and Forsaken remained Horde race apart from their warchief, and BFA proves it again. Everyone sided against Garrosh and Sylvanas when it became convenient, not just those races. Lorthemar could have been disgusted with the genocide of the night elves and the war to achieve global domination, but instead he was concerned about the Horde not having a Warchief anymore.
    Lor'themar had many issues with Sylvanas, not just as Warchief but stretching all the way back to when she essentially held the Ghostlands hostage to force him to contribute more to the Horde war effort in Northrend despite his people still reeling from the events of TBC. Ever since then they have been starkly at odds, up to Lor'themar refusing to back Sylvanas up when she (rightly) pointed out Garrosh's increased warmongering would put the Undercity in the Alliance's sights.

    For most of BFA, the dissidents were in a no-win situation similar to the one they were in under Garrosh. Baine considered leaving the Horde more than once during Garrosh's reign, as did Lor'themar and Vol'jin. All three discarded the idea, Baine and Vol'jin because of proximity to Orgrimmar and Lor'themar because Jaina's retaliation against the Sunreavers killed talks with Varian to defect. Under Sylvanas, knowing that she just attempted to wipe a species off the map without any reservations and did so as a premeditated act, the Horde dissidents had to bide their time until the right moment, because otherwise they knew damn well she'd happily plaguebomb any naysayers into ooze.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellspawn View Post
    It goes more like this, Tyrande told him that should bring what was owed when he wanted to visit Nordrassil
    He thought it was a apology what she wanted.
    When he apologies she did not give a sh** about it.
    Tyrande and Maiev did not accept thats its all just Sylvanas.
    Tyrande then continues to say that sooner or later the surviving night elfs will sooner come for him and the horde and no armistice would stop them next time.
    Thrall then realizes that she wants something else, Sylvanas head and he then vowed to to bring it to her.


    Thats the short version of it.
    I really hope they do not roll with the "ok, here is her head, lets have peace now" route.
    Like it srsly was not Sylvanas. It was the horde.

  16. #56
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Δ Hidden Forbidden Holy Ground
    Posts
    19,105
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    It never ceases to amuse me that Maiev is a literally exiled traitor and psychopathic murderer but they needed her for legion (for some reason) so they just ignored it. Then in BFA she just gets this hand wave one line pardon because someone somewhere remembered she was still an enemy of the state. Now apparently she's part of some war council.
    Judging by ongoing trends, Blizzard has widely distanced the lore from Knaak's novels, up to and including killing off his two main protagonists and evolving Vereesa beyond 'Rhonin's elf girlfriend.' It wouldn't surprise me if Wolfheart and Stormrage were broadly canon but many details like Maiev being a serial-killing sociopath going after anyone who thinks the Alliance is neato torpedo being written out of the canon. Not only because internal consistency is a four-letter word at Blizzard, but also because there's even fewer possible ways to reconcile Wolfheart Maiev with Legion-onward Maiev than there is to reconcile the discrepancies between Sylvanas's internal monologue in Before the Storm with her actions and private discussions in BFA.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Accendor View Post
    I really hope they do not roll with the "ok, here is her head, lets have peace now" route.
    Like it srsly was not Sylvanas. It was the horde.
    Well when she loses the night warrior to some degree that could happen... but I hope she does not change her position fundamental.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thage View Post
    Judging by ongoing trends, Blizzard has widely distanced the lore from Knaak's novels, up to and including killing off his two main protagonists and evolving Vereesa beyond 'Rhonin's elf girlfriend.' It wouldn't surprise me if Wolfheart and Stormrage were broadly canon but many details like Maiev being a serial-killing sociopath going after anyone who thinks the Alliance is neato torpedo being written out of the canon. Not only because internal consistency is a four-letter word at Blizzard, but also because there's even fewer possible ways to reconcile Wolfheart Maiev with Legion-onward Maiev than there is to reconcile the discrepancies between Sylvanas's internal monologue in Before the Storm with her actions and private discussions in BFA.
    I'm quite happy they did that. Wolfheart Maiev felt super random and like a big waste for a character. In the warfront there was no sign of hate between her and the Shen'dralar. I hope we see more Maiev in the future she works well as a commander of the Dark Moon Army. I liked how she was in Shadows Rising aswell.
    Last edited by Hellspawn; 2020-07-14 at 02:25 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceVega View Post
    Sure. That will help everyone. Kill the beloved queen of a people who just barley don't kill every horde they see after a genocide by said horde. The alliance would undoubtly start a total war and there are a few horde members i am not so sure would stay with the horde at that point. Maybe not join alliance but definetly leave ans start their own diplomacy with the alliance.

    It would simply be incredibly stupid for the horde to attack now. AGAIN!
    Why? Horde is still capable of fighting. Alliance won last time only because of civil war. If we get rid of the fifth column, we have chance to win. It is better to get rid of night elf threat before it becomes more dangerous.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Why? Horde is still capable of fighting. Alliance won last time only because of civil war. If we get rid of the fifth column, we have chance to win. It is better to get rid of night elf threat before it becomes more dangerous.
    Lol that would mean every horde race would want another war for no reason whatsoever.

    Tauren would probably be pissed. Nightborne have not been that happy about the last war. Bloodelves would probably stay with them but they are allready splintered thanks to void elves a potentially returning kael thas won't make that better. Goblins would join in no doubt. Orcs ar probably quite tired right now. Undead have their own problem right now in being homeless. Trolls... yeah ok they would definitly welcome it after rastakhan.

    Pandaren and Foxicons can probably be ignored.

    Alliance on the other hand would join hands all of them and start singing kumbaya while slaughtering all of them first being silvermoon.

  20. #60

    Horde

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Why? Horde is still capable of fighting. Alliance won last time only because of civil war. If we get rid of the fifth column, we have chance to win. It is better to get rid of night elf threat before it becomes more dangerous.
    Yes, but I know that he is in real pain.
    Not a fight where Shandris cannot participate because he is far away. Tyrande and maiev do not fight because this because the script needs it.
    The chimeras are missing and the circle doesn't help either.

    If the horde is going to win it has to be Honor. Everything against everything. Not a Varock fighting armed civilians.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •