1. #10541
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    It is absolutely false. The developer typically has a rough estimate, because that is part of the contract between the developer and the publisher. Delays happen, and it is up to the publisher to determine whether to continue funding the project or not, which is typically based on how far along the game is, and if they believe that the game can be fixed with a short delay. If the issue is deep-rooted, then its possible that the project is instead just cancelled. We get half-assed and buggy games, because in the real world budgets are limited and at a certain point the publisher decides to release the game and try to get some sort of return on investment. If the game is successful, then the developers might be allowed to work on some patches.

    I can guarantee that Blizzard has a rough estimate of when their next expansion will be released before they even start on it, because they need to budget the project. Of course they don't know the exact date, but they know what quarter they are trying to release and have budgeted accordingly. This is how all large projects work.

    And yet, here we have CIG with nearly half a billion dollars and eight years of development, and their project is in a perpetual Alpha state, with an incomplete flight model, numerous core mechanics nowhere to be seen, features delayed year after year, and a single player game that went from "nearly playable" to not even out of grey box, which means they have either been blatantly lying, or started over due to feature creep. CIG has some extremely talented people working there, as anyone can see by testing the alpha (I can't call it a game, because there is no gameplay loop), but their management is utterly and astonishingly abysmal.
    Its not false the company doesnt actually know when they are releasing a game, a rough estimate is not the same as knowing when a game is released and they dont even share that information so the community is not expecting anything because they dont know when a game is coming usually within the last year of development.

    Even if the game is almost ready to release anything can happen to delay the game even add years onto a project, new world has added around 1 year onto its development already because the game is not ready, it takes as long as it takes to make a game ready as its up to the company.

    The alpha is a game in its own right currently, if they wanted they could easily polish up and add a few more things to what they already have and that would still be more of a game than many games currently out. There is plenty gameplay loops currently available already in star citizen.

    The community wanted a bigger game and thats what we are getting, if you looked at the stretch goals you knew the game would more than double in size and that takes longer to develop.
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  2. #10542
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The alpha is a game in its own right currently, if they wanted they could easily polish up and add a few more things to what they already have and that would still be more of a game than many games currently out. There is plenty gameplay loops currently available already in star citizen.
    Uh huh sure they could. They'd rather have a buggy crashing mess because reasons. They haven't done this so they have an uninspired buggy, crashing mess with few game loops to even do. I love how you rant and rave about game development when it comes to other people making claims and then you say some shit like this. Good grief.

  3. #10543
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    The alpha is a game in its own right currently, if they wanted they could easily polish up and add a few more things to what they already have and that would still be more of a game than many games currently out. There is plenty gameplay loops currently available already in star citizen.
    You think they could "easily polish up" what they have when they don't even have the flight model figured out after eight years of development? Or when missions are still consistently bugging out? The only reliable gameplay loop in the alpha is launching, crashing, and relaunching.

  4. #10544
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    You think they could "easily polish up" what they have when they don't even have the flight model figured out after eight years of development? Or when missions are still consistently bugging out? The only reliable gameplay loop in the alpha is launching, crashing, and relaunching.
    If they wanted to they could and the game runs more than fine for what it is currently, they are just improving on the flight model not that the current version is more than effective, things in development constantly change and are tweaked.
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  5. #10545
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    If they wanted to they could and the game runs more than fine for what it is currently, they are just improving on the flight model not that the current version is more than effective, things in development constantly change and are tweaked.
    Yeah, they do. In fact, the flight model has been changing for 8 years like okay, design is an iterative process, but at some point you have to stop changing the floor plan so you can start building the house. Mmo without content is nothing.

  6. #10546
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    If they wanted to they could and the game runs more than fine for what it is currently, they are just improving on the flight model not that the current version is more than effective, things in development constantly change and are tweaked.
    "If they wanted to" is such bullshit. You don't know what they are capable of. You have no special insight at the inner working of this game. But damn do you sure act like you have special knowledge.

  7. #10547
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beazy View Post
    Swhy havent you left CIG yet? You realize you're not going to be able to put CIG on your resume if you want to work in the industry after they buckle right?
    Sunk cost fallacy in my opinion. They invested too much time and money up to this point.
    The zealots (person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.) are by definition blind to the facts, not to mention incapable of admitting other points of view.

  8. #10548
    Quote Originally Posted by Fid View Post
    Sunk cost fallacy in my opinion. They invested too much time and money up to this point.
    The zealots (person who is fanatical and uncompromising in pursuit of their religious, political, or other ideals.) are by definition blind to the facts, not to mention incapable of admitting other points of view.
    Kenn is Concierge which means minimum spent $1000. At that point people abandon all logic and it's all emotion when defending the game.

  9. #10549
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Its not false the company doesnt actually know when they are releasing a game, a rough estimate is not the same as knowing when a game is released and they dont even share that information so the community is not expecting anything because they dont know when a game is coming usually within the last year of development.

    Even if the game is almost ready to release anything can happen to delay the game even add years onto a project, new world has added around 1 year onto its development already because the game is not ready, it takes as long as it takes to make a game ready as its up to the company.

    The alpha is a game in its own right currently, if they wanted they could easily polish up and add a few more things to what they already have and that would still be more of a game than many games currently out. There is plenty gameplay loops currently available already in star citizen.

    The community wanted a bigger game and thats what we are getting, if you looked at the stretch goals you knew the game would more than double in size and that takes longer to develop.


    I haven’t been here long but it seems like you repeat the same shit over and over..

    Are you okay? It seems like you might be delusional.

  10. #10550
    it would be funny if this did fail because it would pretty much stake in the heart the entire concept of crowd funding things. but you'd be unlikely to see a game of this scope for a long time. if it failed no one is going to jump on the crowd funding bandwagon again and no investor is going to throw money at another attempt.

    I don't think any of you have any programming experience whatsoever so its not surprising the level of disingenuous unconstructive negativity. I'm not sure what the goal is exactly because those of us who have already pledged aren't getting our money back, but we knew it was a gamble to begin with, and those of you who have no interest whatsoever in this game are simply the man who shouts at clouds.

    who is delusional exactly, the ppl who have an interest in this concept, or the ones who don't but still find the time to waste complaining about something they have no interest in...

    I might still be alive when SC reaches a more feature complete state, but i probably won't be alive when a better game is made. the ultimate game likely won't exist for many decades after i'm gone. in the mean time there is this game, there is elite, no mans sky, starbase looked pretty cool, and ofc eve online is still a thing. there isn't really that much choice when it comes to spaceship games, for a while I think X3 was the best thing.

    I haven't heard of any game like this being made else where so if you want a game like this, this is the game that is being made.

    I can't really complain that much most of the games I play are still being made, are alphas/betas or are in some way early access or are still developed in the case of eve online I played a few months ago and trained one of my alts into the new trig ships, that game came out in 2003, still having content and features added to it over 15 years later. the roguelikes I play will probably never reach a 'finished' state not in my lifetime anyway. cataclysmdda has had over 1000 contributors, that game will never be 'finished'. neither will dwarf fortress, but thats more likely because it only has 1-2 developers but it is also extremely ambitious and unique in gaming to the point that it just likely won't be ever be finished.

    SC doesn't even have to reach a finished state, for me to start playing it more it just has to reach a point where they stop wiping progress.
    Last edited by Heathy; 2020-07-15 at 05:35 AM.

  11. #10551
    Quote Originally Posted by FreeHongKong View Post
    I haven’t been here long but it seems like you repeat the same shit over and over..

    Are you okay? It seems like you might be delusional.
    You have been here 2 mins are already have proved you speak nothing but BS
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  12. #10552
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cracked View Post
    Well, the thing you have to understand about this project is that their rabid fanbase holds them to no deadline, even the ones they set for themselves.
    I think this is an accurate summation of the player base as a whole. Too many apologists and simps, not enough loud voices holding them to account.

  13. #10553
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    it would be funny if this did fail because it would pretty much stake in the heart the entire concept of crowd funding things. but you'd be unlikely to see a game of this scope for a long time. if it failed no one is going to jump on the crowd funding bandwagon again and no investor is going to throw money at another attempt.
    I don't think this will be the case. While this one will get the most press, there have been many solid games released via crowdfunding. Some examples would be the Divinity: Original Sins 1 & 2, Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2, Grim Dawn, Darkest Dungeon, Wasteland 2. On the flip, if SC turns out successful, expect to see more publishers try and go this route. SC has brought in hundreds of millions of dollars with very little to show for itself after 8 years. That's a publisher's wet dream.

  14. #10554
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    I don't think this will be the case. While this one will get the most press, there have been many solid games released via crowdfunding. Some examples would be the Divinity: Original Sins 1 & 2, Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2, Grim Dawn, Darkest Dungeon, Wasteland 2. On the flip, if SC turns out successful, expect to see more publishers try and go this route. SC has brought in hundreds of millions of dollars with very little to show for itself after 8 years. That's a publisher's wet dream.
    In what sense is this a dream? How it is good for a PUBLISHER to not have any product after 8 years?

    It is con artist wet dream. Or CR.

  15. #10555
    Quote Originally Posted by Aliven View Post
    In what sense is this a dream? How it is good for a PUBLISHER to not have any product after 8 years?

    It is con artist wet dream. Or CR.
    You have no clue about the game at all do you, they do have a product and the current product could easily be considered a full game but there is plenty more coming into the game, you fail to see the actual size of the project being developed by a very small team.

    You have nothing relevant or constructive to say at all.
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  16. #10556
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You have no clue about the game at all do you, they do have a product and the current product could easily be considered a full game but there is plenty more coming into the game, you fail to see the actual size of the project being developed by a very small team.

    You have nothing relevant or constructive to say at all.
    The current product could not be considered a full game by any stretch of the imagination.

  17. #10557
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    they do have a product and the current product could easily be considered a full game
    Hahaha oh man the gift that keeps on giving. Earlier you said they could easily polish up what they have and release it too. You think what they have now is good enough if they added nothing else to be considered a full game?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You have no clue about the game at all do you
    You have nothing relevant or constructive to say at all.
    Make sure to attack people, that's what I've come to expect.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    there is plenty more coming into the game
    Oh yeah? When? Don't they keep pushing back patches and content? Over and over again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    you fail to see the actual size of the project being developed by a very small team.
    Very small team? Since when? Now their hundreds of people team is very small?

  18. #10558
    Quote Originally Posted by masterblaster0 View Post
    The current product could not be considered a full game by any stretch of the imagination.
    Its more of a game than many currently around, doesnt matter if its not finished or not, there are many games with far less gameplay options than what SC currently has so you cant say its not a game even though its still being worked on.
    STAR-J4R9-YYK4 use this for 5000 credits in star citizen

  19. #10559
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Its more of a game than many currently around
    Examples please.

    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    doesnt matter if its not finished or not, there are many games with far less gameplay options than what SC currently has so you cant say its not a game even though its still being worked on.
    You seem to be inferring a lot from my single sentence. At no point did I make any mention of the completion state, argue that other games had more gameplay options or that is was not a game. Where did all of that come from?

  20. #10560
    Quote Originally Posted by Heathy View Post
    it would be funny if this did fail because it would pretty much stake in the heart the entire concept of crowd funding things. but you'd be unlikely to see a game of this scope for a long time. if it failed no one is going to jump on the crowd funding bandwagon again and no investor is going to throw money at another attempt.

    I don't think any of you have any programming experience whatsoever so its not surprising the level of disingenuous unconstructive negativity. I'm not sure what the goal is exactly because those of us who have already pledged aren't getting our money back, but we knew it was a gamble to begin with, and those of you who have no interest whatsoever in this game are simply the man who shouts at clouds.

    who is delusional exactly, the ppl who have an interest in this concept, or the ones who don't but still find the time to waste complaining about something they have no interest in...
    What does programming experience have to do with anything you said leading to that? Given how you were talking about crowd-funding, it kinda looks like a disingenuous attempt to silence criticism with baseless appeal to non-existent authoritah. Further corroborated by your equally insincere remark about "disingenuous unconstructive negativity". When the last few (hundred) pages are people quoting Roberts and CIG, showing how they either make promises that they can't deliver or are flat out lying out of their deceitful asses. What about holding a developer to scrutiny constitutes "unconstructive negativity", exactly?

    And the crowd funding bandwagon already slowed down. Precisely thanks to the kinds of developers that promise games "like no game before" and either deliver hot garbage or don't deliver an actual product at all. The inept clowns at CIG have a detrimental effect on the market and deserve every ounce of criticism they get, no matter how hard you try to fallaciously handwave it away as "old man who shouts at clouds".


    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    You have no clue about the game at all do you, they do have a product and the current product could easily be considered a full game but there is plenty more coming into the game, you fail to see the actual size of the project being developed by a very small team.

    You have nothing relevant or constructive to say at all.
    Oh, yes. An MMO that can't even host 50 people in a stable manner, with only half of its mechanics put in and none of them in a complete manner would truly be considered a full game.



    Quote Originally Posted by masterblaster0 View Post
    You seem to be inferring a lot from my single sentence. At no point did I make any mention of the completion state, argue that other games had more gameplay options or that is was not a game. Where did all of that come from?
    From the deflect-o-sphere.
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    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
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    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

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