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  1. #321
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Except it was pointless. All your points could have been done without amounting to nothing progressing within the main plot.
    It does progress the main plot, directly. I have no idea where you got the impression that it doesn't. No Canto Bight, no DJ, no leak of Holdo's plan, no stealth scanning for escape craft, the Resistance escapes the First Order completely to rebuild on Crait.

    It doesn't progress the plot in a way that benefits the protagonists, but neither did going to Cloud City, in the OT.


  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I never said it wasn't. The plan was to sneak to Crait and them jump the cruiser one last time. That's why they made this play with enough fuel left for one jump.



    That wouldn't mean a scan for stealthed vessels. We don't know why scanning for stealth isn't an always-on thing. Maybe it's too much power draw for constant use. Maybe it needs to be much more targeted than regular scans. Maybe the bandwidth causes other problems. We don't know, but we do know that they can't always be scanning for stealth systems. Or they would.
    If they'd jumped the cruiser one more time on automatic, they would've been nowhere near Crait at the time.
    Maybe maybe maybe. They have the technology. That's the nearest planet. And it doesn't need to be on at all times. I mean, THE FUCKING LENS in Snoke's chamber was enough to reveal her "genius" plan.

    Hey. MAYBE they circle back to the planet they warped from because a final jump sounds like the distraction a bunch of escape vessels need. MAYBE Snoke uses the force to know about the escape vessels by mind reading Rey. MAYBE.

  3. #323
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinSum View Post
    since you are a fan?
    Who said I am ? I actually enjoyed the last 3 movies, I'm ok with how it ended and Rei being female didn't gave me herpes. So no, I'm definitely not a "Star Wars fan".
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  4. #324
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It does progress the main plot, directly. I have no idea where you got the impression that it doesn't. No Canto Bight, no DJ, no leak of Holdo's plan, no stealth scanning for escape craft, the Resistance escapes the First Order completely to rebuild on Crait.

    It doesn't progress the plot in a way that benefits the protagonists, but neither did going to Cloud City, in the OT.
    Except we could literally be in the same 3rd act without going to Canto Bight. They sneak on the ship and get caught anyway. The escape vessels are detected. Holdo still dies because if there was such a thing as automatic light drives, her giving her live was EXTRA pointless. But, clap for her because....

    It is useless. Meanwhile, plot critical events actually happen at cloud city.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Who said I am ? I actually enjoyed the last 3 movies, I'm ok with how it ended and Rei being female didn't gave me herpes. So no, I'm definitely not a "Star Wars fan".
    No. That makes you a SW fan. Don't run. Embrace what you called yourself.

  5. #325
    Scarab Lord Frontenac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ealyssa View Post
    Who said I am ? I actually enjoyed the last 3 movies, I'm ok with how it ended and Rei being female didn't gave me herpes. So no, I'm definitely not a "Star Wars fan".
    I have to admit that I laughed. My sentiment exactly. I refuse to associate myself with these cultists and idolaters.
    "Je vous répondrai par la bouche de mes canons!"

  6. #326
    Legendary! Ealyssa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontenac View Post
    I have to admit that I laughed. My sentiment exactly. I refuse to associate myself with these cultists and idolaters.
    They can't even see how pathetic they are, quite sad.

    But let's not derail the thread. My point was no matter how you liked the ending, rebooting it sound stupid. You can't please those people. Just build something new in the SW universe, with light saber, light guys, dark guys and maybe even grey guys (yes, sorry I want to see the imperial knights on screen or a variant of it)
    Last edited by Ealyssa; 2020-07-15 at 10:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by primalmatter View Post
    nazi is not the abbreviation of national socialism....
    When googling 4 letters is asking too much fact-checking.

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    It does progress the main plot, directly. I have no idea where you got the impression that it doesn't. No Canto Bight, no DJ, no leak of Holdo's plan, no stealth scanning for escape craft, the Resistance escapes the First Order completely to rebuild on Crait.

    It doesn't progress the plot in a way that benefits the protagonists, but neither did going to Cloud City, in the OT.
    I'll rephrase then. The plot itself was a waste of time.

    The entire conflict of the plot is manufactured by a failure to communicate a plan that the protagonist was asking for. The end result was an adventure and escapade that lead to a net-zero progress of characterization outside of 'growing out of conflict'; yet as I point above that conflict was absolutely manufactured and in reality everything actually the same as it was before except shit just hit the fan all around our characters. It's a case of 'Our heroes are too strong so let's bring em down a notch at the start so they have some roome to grow stronger'.

    Poe's growth isn't something that is necessitated out of conflict; considering he was fully supportive of the plan he just as easily become a better leader out of supporting the plan and being a good soldier. The conflict comes from him not knowing the plan and losing hope. If he knew the plan, he could become a better leader by resolving the conflicts that get in the way of the plan succeeding. There's really no reason to punch him down at the start of the movie and make his character be absolutely insubordinate because he can't deal with his feels.

    Well Finn got a lot of character development out of Canto Bight. But Finn's conflict of not having a place or purpose in the Resistance is manufactured at the start of the Last Jedi. By the end of Force Awakens we're already expecting him to have a purpose and role in the story, in the Resistance. Canto Bight resolves a manufactured conflict that only exists in The Last Jedi, and the resolution takes the character back to where we already expected him to be by the end of A Force Awakens.

    This extends to Rey too. Punched down, given room to grow. But it just doesn't work with Star Wars when it involves mis-characterizing established characters and subverting everything that was being established by A Force Awakens and the Original Trilogy.

    It's basically the movie equivalent of Season 8 Game of Thrones Jaime Lannister. We ran through hours and hours of character building, only to see nothing really progress out of it, and the city is burning too.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-07-15 at 10:45 PM.

  8. #328
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantomen View Post
    What about movies like Rian Johnson's trilogi, the Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Boba Fet movie.....they do not even have a timeline for them....if everything was good they would released a new Star Wars movie every year.... Continue to live in your delusion.
    What about the Bad Batch? The High Republic? Obi-wan series? The Young Vader show (Hayden is reprising his role not sure if separate series or as part of Obi-wan)? They put a pause on movies after the reception of Solo but they stated they are moving back to their original time line. It isn't a delusion. Star Wars has been very good to Disney and to its investors. Disney is going full steam ahead with the franchise and its IP.

    And that doesn't even include the unamed stuff from the May 4th annoucements.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    You do realize Disney is virtually a monopoly now? They've been buying up everything...so you can't even come close to claiming that rise from 2012 is all from obtaining Star Wars. They've been bombing a lot when it comes to Star Wars...
    I didn't ever say it was all from Star Wars. Only that it has helped contribute to their success and Disney didn't pay 4 billion for it since they paid in stock that was a lot less at the time then it is now. It has helped grow the company along with all their other acquisitions since Lucas Arts. It has been anything but a failure for Disney.
    Last edited by rhorle; 2020-07-15 at 11:24 PM.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  9. #329
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    They've been bombing a lot when it comes to Star Wars...
    To be fair, 'a lot' is one movie.

    A Force Awakens was what everyone was waiting for, so it got huge hype and was a huge success. 2 Billion.

    Rogue One was filler, but still decent. 1 Billion.

    Despite its criticisms, The Last Jedi made bank on the good faith of the previous films, so it's technically not a bomb. It brought in just under 1.4 billion.

    That vitriol spilled over to Solo, making it a bomb. Just under 400 million.

    Rise of Skywalker is considered a mediocre movie, but people still went to see it. 1 billion.


    Those are still pretty good box office numbers, all considering.

    I get what you mean if you're specifically talking bombing as in 'bad movies that will hurt the franchise!' but honestly fans get over that pretty easily. We survived the Prequels after all.

  10. #330
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    To be fair, 'a lot' is one movie.

    A Force Awakens was what everyone was waiting for, so it got huge hype and was a huge success. 2 Billion.

    Rogue One was filler, but still decent. 1 Billion.

    Despite its criticisms, The Last Jedi made bank on the good faith of the previous films, so it's technically not a bomb. It brought in just under 1.4 billion.

    That vitriol spilled over to Solo, making it a bomb. Just under 400 million.

    Rise of Skywalker is considered a mediocre movie, but people still went to see it. 1 billion.


    Those are still pretty good box office numbers, all considering.

    I get what you mean if you're specifically talking bombing as in 'bad movies that will hurt the franchise!' but honestly fans get over that pretty easily. We survived the Prequels after all.
    No, remember. The prequels ruined EVERYTHING and only Disney could save it.

  11. #331
    Quote Originally Posted by dontrelleroosevelt View Post
    Plot holes = your inability to infer
    Horrid writing = opinion only
    Forgotten characters = like your black Sonic guy or whatever?
    While I realize you've been banned.

    Inserting your mental fanfiction into a story does not fix a plot hole.
    horrid writing - arguable but i'll concede it's opinion.
    Sonic avatar - is that really REALLY the best you can do lol.

    Trolling isn't allowed. Infracted.
    Last edited by Faltemer; 2020-07-16 at 04:31 AM.

  12. #332
    Merely a Setback PACOX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaladinSum View Post
    No, remember. The prequels ruined EVERYTHING and only Disney could save it.
    I thought you were trolling. I take that back, finally posted facts today! My man!

    Resident Cosplay Progressive

  13. #333
    Over 9000! Kithelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    To be fair, 'a lot' is one movie.

    A Force Awakens was what everyone was waiting for, so it got huge hype and was a huge success. 2 Billion.

    Rogue One was filler, but still decent. 1 Billion.

    Despite its criticisms, The Last Jedi made bank on the good faith of the previous films, so it's technically not a bomb. It brought in just under 1.4 billion.

    That vitriol spilled over to Solo, making it a bomb. Just under 400 million.

    Rise of Skywalker is considered a mediocre movie, but people still went to see it. 1 billion.


    Those are still pretty good box office numbers, all considering.

    I get what you mean if you're specifically talking bombing as in 'bad movies that will hurt the franchise!' but honestly fans get over that pretty easily. We survived the Prequels after all.
    It's more than one movie...each movie cost more than the last and made less than the former, all 3 of them had tons of reshoots including RoS was shooting up to a month before release. The movie toy sales have been absolutely abysmal since TLJ...they decided to make the theme park all about the Disney Trilogy so that has been bombing too.

    Even if the movies brought in a billion dollars or more a lot of that is gone...bad sales and performances in everything else related to those movies. We really have no idea how much RoS cost with all the massive reshoots. Plus all the advertisement costs...

    There is more to it than RoS made a billion so Disney is a billion dollars richer...that isn't how it works.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by PACOX View Post
    I thought you were trolling. I take that back, finally posted facts today! My man!
    Well, I guess it did. Trying new things is dangerous and risky. You need to stay safe and make more Skywalkers!

  15. #335
    Quote Originally Posted by Kithelle View Post
    It's more than one movie...each movie cost more than the last and made less than the former, all 3 of them had tons of reshoots including RoS was shooting up to a month before release. The movie toy sales have been absolutely abysmal since TLJ...they decided to make the theme park all about the Disney Trilogy so that has been bombing too.

    Even if the movies brought in a billion dollars or more a lot of that is gone...bad sales and performances in everything else related to those movies. We really have no idea how much RoS cost with all the massive reshoots. Plus all the advertisement costs...

    There is more to it than RoS made a billion so Disney is a billion dollars richer...that isn't how it works.
    You understand that the reverse applies too right?

    1- You admit you don't know how much certain things cost, and I assume you don't know how much they actually made or lost in terms of net gains
    2- You assume the Billion dollars is already gone (by means of what information?)
    3- You assume Reshoots, Advertisement Costs, Bad sales all contribute to losing a Billion dollars

    I mean.... that isn't how it works either.


    You said they have been bombing a lot, and conveniently ignore the success of Mandalorian and Disney+, the success of the Clone Wars, Star Wars Rebels etc; the success of the videogames like Fallen Order... I understand that you want to illustrate that they've been doing bad in certain areas, but you can't support your argument that they're bleeding money if they're also doing good in other areas, and the films themselves have each been financially successful sans Solo.

    The budget for Rise of Skywalker was 275 million listed. Double that for Advertisement. I'll even throw your argument a bone and triple it for Reshoots (which is a ridiculous assumed amount, btw). They would have STILL made a net gains on that movie.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-07-16 at 04:24 AM.

  16. #336
    Have 0 fate in Star Wars under Disney, the franchise has been taken by the woke/PC cult and they destroyed it.
    Unless they give it back to George Lucas and let him make the sequels i will not spend any money on it.

  17. #337
    Quote Originally Posted by Itori View Post
    Disney knows that the new ones are basically just bad remakes of 4,5, and 6. It would be in their best interest to just kick them out, call them a non canon alternate universe, and continue from where 6 left off with luke rebuilding the order. If they wanted to bank hard on it they would make a trilogy based on Revan, never show their face as to keep the mystery due to the player being male or female.
    This but have him played by both male and female actor and let people wonder, reveal midway through second movie that they're twins and both are canon. It'll already be impossible to have an accurate Revan, so might as well go for it.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by dontrelleroosevelt View Post
    There aren't shortcomings. They could have been done an infinite number of ways. There is no "objectively poorly written". It's entirely subjective.
    That's a stance born from ignorance, and always parroted by people who can't tell the difference between personal preference and objective criticism. The fact that you truly believe these movies have no shortcomings just cements the fact that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about and are completely incapable of rational discussion (about these movies at least).

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You understand that the reverse applies too right?

    1- You admit you don't know how much certain things cost, and I assume you don't know how much they actually made or lost in terms of net gains
    2- You assume the Billion dollars is already gone (by means of what information?)
    3- You assume Reshoots, Advertisement Costs, Bad sales all contribute to losing a Billion dollars

    I mean.... that isn't how it works either.


    You said they have been bombing a lot, and conveniently ignore the success of Mandalorian and Disney+, the success of the Clone Wars, Star Wars Rebels etc; the success of the videogames like Fallen Order... I understand that you want to illustrate that they've been doing bad in certain areas, but you can't support your argument that they're bleeding money if they're also doing good in other areas, and the films themselves have each been financially successful sans Solo.

    The budget for Rise of Skywalker was 275 million listed. Double that for Advertisement. I'll even throw your argument a bone and triple it for Reshoots (which is a ridiculous assumed amount, btw). They would have STILL made a net gains on that movie.
    But that's not how investors see it. And that's kind of the people you really need to please.

    First of all, the net gains of Star Wars are set off by the cost of acquiring Star Wars. So as a whole, the 'Star Wars' brand of Disney starts with a massive negative figure, in their eyes.

    And then, they will look at how the brand develops. Disney started with an incredible first movie, making 2 billion dollars revenue. That was great! And then they made a less-costly, less well recieved movie that still made a decent profit. But the next movie made 600 million USD less than it's sequential predecessor, despite having a similarily strong opening weekend. (247 million USD for FA opposed to 220 million USD for TLJ). It might sound weird, coming from the stand point of 1.3 billion revenue, but that's not exactly pleasing. It's a solid 30% drop, despite interest seemingly unchanged.

    And then they did something that probably no one expected. They made a Star Wars movie that bombed.

    Think that one over for a moment.

    Star Wars is among the biggest entertainment brands in the world. And they made a movie that bombed. I think the biggest 'bomb' in the MCU is The Incredible Hulk, and that one still made a profit.

    Now yes, Solo had terribly bloated costs, but that's still an achievement on its own. A bad one, of course.

    And then you have Rise of Skywalker, that 'only' made 1.1 billion USD. What's more, opening weekend was 'only' 170 million USD. Add to that the bad reviews, and so on. Financially speaking, the trilogy was disappointing. Not bad, but not good either. Increased cost leading to drastically declining revenue, with a generally lukewarm reception of the finish, to put it mildly. None of that really inspires confidence that the entire thing was handled well.

    And then there is the PR. I doubt that serious investors pay much attention to either 'neckbeards' or 'SJWs', but they do pay attention to the general vibe of how a brand is perceived in general, because that usually sets a rough direction into how much money a franchise is going to make. Then there is the issue of the movies that were canceled or put on hold, indefinitely.

    There is a lot in Star Wars that doesn't paint a good picture atm. Also lots of good stuff happening, CW, Mandalorian, Fallen Order, as you've pointed out. But all of the negativity or mediocrity still leaves investors saying 'I have a bad feeling about this'.

    So they will focus on what went well, and what didn't. Not saying all of that will lead to an actual 'reboot' or so. Just a little perspective.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Skulltaker View Post
    But that's not how investors see it. And that's kind of the people you really need to please.
    .
    No, we don't have to please investors.

    We are discussing on a videogame message board subforum. If Kithelle says that 'Star Wars bombed a lot' then that's not talking on behalf of Investors, that's speaking an opinion. I disagree with that assessment.

    So they will focus on what went well, and what didn't. Not saying all of that will lead to an actual 'reboot' or so. Just a little perspective.
    But thats the thing. Two movies underperformed does not equate to 'bombing a lot'. Even in the 'investors' framing, he inferred a high quantity of failures, when the reality is more akin to a one big failure and one underperforming film.

    4/5 profitable films is not 'bombing a lot'. I'm not saying Star Wars didn't hurt its profit and future, I conten this one statement that you may have not had the context of since the reply was not to you
    Last edited by Triceron; 2020-07-16 at 08:42 AM.

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