9.0 General Discussion

[Cosmic Janitor]

It did have a point, apparently to get rid of the war forever. It was just super forced.

I can promise you it the war will return in 10.0 or 11.0, maybe even some time during 9.x, because everything else would require Blizzard to actually write a complelling plot for the game.

[gunner_recall]

And I just thought about this but any of the covenants joining the Alliance or Horde SPECIFICALLY makes no sense. Like if they're neutral like Pandaren then sure, whatever.

But like....Kyrians may have been former Horde in their lives. And we've seen former Alliance members in Maldraxxus. So it's like "ey I fit your aesthetic now, fuck my friends and relatives who might still be alive"

But yeah, there's a pretty significant chance we go back to being at war after SL because the cycle of hate.

Unless that's the cycle Sylvanas wants to break.

[Nagawithlegs]

Welp, that didn't work.

Blizz shoved us right back to where we were before.

I'm sure we'll be fighting again in two more expansions.

I can promise you it the war will return in 10.0 or 11.0, maybe even some time during 9.x, because everything else would require Blizzard to actually write a complelling plot for the game.

I mean, is there anything that actually points to that other than cynicism and Blizzard's past?

Everything from 8.2.5 onward (and even before if you count the money sunk into the Saurfang cinematics) points to an actual definitive end to the faction war in Warcraft, from the way the armistice is treated in Shadows Rising, the fact that literally no lore character hints at breaking the peace, the complete restructuring of the Horde (Thrall even says "a Warchief makes war" or something along those lines), to dev comments like Ion admitting that the payoff for "break the cycle" hasn't happened yet and someone at Blizz saying they are experimenting with cross-faction gameplay. Even the one character everyone was insisting was getting the villain bat to restore the war (Tyrande) is acting pretty rational in the book and Shadowlands while also getting a questline all about reducing that anger.

It's just hard for me to look at all of that and say "the war will be back because Blizz sucks!" although I'm aware that's popular opinion. But the idea that they sunk all this time and heavy lore changes for nothing goes against the resources they've put in.

[gunner_recall]

I mean, is there anything that actually points to that other than cynicism and Blizzard's past?

Everything from 8.2.5 onward (and even before if you count the money sunk into the Saurfang cinematics) points to an actual definitive end to the faction war in Warcraft, from the way the armistice is treated in Shadows Rising, the fact that literally no lore character hints at breaking the peace, the complete restructuring of the Horde (Thrall even says "a Warchief makes war" or something along those lines), to dev comments like Ion admitting that the payoff for "break the cycle" hasn't happened yet and someone at Blizz saying they are experimenting with cross-faction gameplay. Even the one character everyone was insisting was getting the villain bat to restore the war (Tyrande) is acting pretty rational in the book and Shadowlands while also getting a questline all about reducing that anger.

It's just hard for me to look at all of that and say "the war will be back because Blizz sucks!" although I'm aware that's popular opinion. But the idea that they sunk all this time and heavy lore changes for nothing goes against the resources they've put in.

I'm not saying it's going to happen because Blizz sucks but it's like...the core of Warcraft. Orcs vs Humans, Alliance vs Horde, Red vs Blue.

It's just what it is. I would love to be proven wrong.

[Nagawithlegs]

I'm not saying it's going to happen because Blizz sucks but it's like...the core of Warcraft. Orcs vs Humans, Alliance vs Horde, Red vs Blue.

It's just what it is. I would love to be proven wrong.

I think the core will be preserved forever in separate factions and wars, just not wars between the factions. I don't think a faction merger or the option to put Orcs on Alliance etc will ever happen.

[FlubberPuddy]

And I just thought about this but any of the covenants joining the Alliance or Horde SPECIFICALLY makes no sense. Like if they're neutral like Pandaren then sure, whatever.

But like....Kyrians may have been former Horde in their lives. And we've seen former Alliance members in Maldraxxus. So it's like "ey I fit your aesthetic now, fuck my friends and relatives who might still be alive".

And that's what a lot of people have been saying, despite some even personally wanting them as Allied Races (like me). It really makes no sense for otherwordly beings to care about some petty unending conflict on 1 specific world compared to what's going on in the entire 'afterlife' .

Like in D&D there's not squads of Devas/Planetars being sent from the heavens to stop whatever evil shenanigans are going on within the continent of Toril etc.

[gunner_recall]

I think the core will be preserved forever in separate factions and wars, just not wars between the factions. I don't think a faction merger or the option to put Orcs on Alliance etc will ever happen.

Again, I would love to be proven wrong.

And that's what a lot of people have been saying, despite some even personally wanting them as Allied Races (like me). It really makes no sense for otherwordly beings to care about some petty unending conflict on 1 specific world compared to what's going on in the entire 'afterlife' .

Like in D&D there's not squads of Devas/Planetars being sent from the heavens to stop whatever evil shenanigans are going on within the continent of Toril etc.

I must have missed it. I've been havin' a weird month, buddy.

But I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[Nagawithlegs]

And that's what a lot of people have been saying, despite some even personally wanting them as Allied Races (like me). It really makes no sense for otherwordly beings to care about some petty unending conflict on 1 specific world compared to what's going on in the entire 'afterlife' .

Like in D&D there's not squads of Devas/Planetars being sent from the heavens to stop whatever evil shenanigans are going on within the continent of Toril etc.

As someone that would like them as ARs I agree that MOST of them don't have a reason to be on Azeroth. I think the exception is the Kyrians who are quite literally spirit healers who are on record for coming to Azeroth often and would have a reason to quest, being the "trials" each of them goes through in order to earn their wings and their inherent duty to preserve order. They also lack faction connections aside from 3/4 of them being tied to NPCs closely tied to the factions (Uther, Kael and the Night Elves, Maldraxxus is equally Horde and Alliance).

However I'm aware that lore can change in the span of a patch and I wouldn't be surprised if they make it so that the threat in 10.0 is significant in a cosmic sense: especially if it's the foreshadowed Light vs Void conflict on Azeroth, as we know now that both sides are seen as a threat on the Shadowlands that has to be repelled. So while it doesn't make sense for a Kyrian to come down to Azeroth to fight pirates and trolls, it does make sense if they are coming to fend off evil Naaru or Voidlords.

[Alanar]

I don't know if this was noticed before, but when you select your class on the creation screen it displays animations of the class. For the warrior, you see the character dual wielding.

It seems the animation on the orc is different from the one we have on live, and it change when you're selecting straight back or not.





Maybe we'll get new ready animations soon ?

But we just got ready animations..;p

Yea they look differnt, maybe just some animation not working properly and you see it fixed next build.
Could be a new thing, but does look like an oversight.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I mean, is there anything that actually points to that other than cynicism and Blizzard's past?

Everything from 8.2.5 onward (and even before if you count the money sunk into the Saurfang cinematics) points to an actual definitive end to the faction war in Warcraft, from the way the armistice is treated in Shadows Rising, the fact that literally no lore character hints at breaking the peace, the complete restructuring of the Horde (Thrall even says "a Warchief makes war" or something along those lines), to dev comments like Ion admitting that the payoff for "break the cycle" hasn't happened yet and someone at Blizz saying they are experimenting with cross-faction gameplay. Even the one character everyone was insisting was getting the villain bat to restore the war (Tyrande) is acting pretty rational in the book and Shadowlands while also getting a questline all about reducing that anger.

It's just hard for me to look at all of that and say "the war will be back because Blizz sucks!" although I'm aware that's popular opinion. But the idea that they sunk all this time and heavy lore changes for nothing goes against the resources they've put in.

The thing is, you may call it cynical, I call it just being realistic. The game's story with the 2 factions has been going in circles since WotLK. That is a track record that you can hardly just hand-wave. I might have seen a point if Blizzard had broken down some of the faction restrictions, especially given the irony of PvP having less of them than PvE, but Blizzard did nothing of the sort. There will hardly ever be a time when it would have made more sense than now. Some of their latest statements even make it seem like they absolutely want to hold onto every single micron of that barrier.

As for a bunch of cinematics, that is just writing and the current direction of game development to visualize it like that. We already had an expansion whose entire theme was getting over the hatred, only to ignore it one expansion later in another timeline on another planet.

I'd gladly be proven wrong, believe me, nothing would make me happier. But the reality is that, as gunner_recall said, it's enshrined in the very core of the game and the franchise.

[Nagawithlegs]

The thing is, you may call it cynical, I call it just being realistic. The game's story with the 2 factions has been going in circles since WotLK. That is a track record that you can hardly just hand-wave. I might have seen a point if Blizzard had broken down some of the faction restrictions, especially given the irony of PvP having less of them than PvE, but Blizzard did nothing of the sort. There will hardly ever be a time when it would have made more sense than now. Some of their latest statements even make it seem like they absolutely want to hold onto every single micron of that barrier.

Not exactly. The comments Ion made at Blizzcon about "the factions aren't going anywhere" were misunderstandings about people asking for a faction merger or the removal of PVP, and as I mentioned they have both hinted and outright stated that the team is experimenting with cross-faction gameplay.

While Shadowlands would've been the best place to incorporate cross-faction, it may have not been included either because of a need for more development time, the desire to have a cooldown period (as it would be "too soon" for the factions to be buddies) or the more likely reason that the feature is delayed to be a selling point for the next Azeroth expansion that actually features the factions.

[Feali]

Feali, don't you dare-

As if.. my last beta was WoD..

[FlubberPuddy]

I must have missed it. I've been havin' a weird month, buddy.

But I'm glad I'm not the only one.

All good man, you're a diamond in the rough so no worries!

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As someone that would like them as ARs I agree that MOST of them don't have a reason to be on Azeroth. I think the exception is the Kyrians who are quite literally spirit healers who are on record for coming to Azeroth often and would have a reason to quest, being the "trials" each of them goes through in order to earn their wings and their inherent duty to preserve order. They also lack faction connections aside from 3/4 of them being tied to NPCs closely tied to the factions (Uther, Kael and the Night Elves, Maldraxxus is equally Horde and Alliance).

However I'm aware that lore can change in the span of a patch and I wouldn't be surprised if they make it so that the threat in 10.0 is significant in a cosmic sense: especially if it's the foreshadowed Light vs Void conflict on Azeroth, as we know now that both sides are seen as a threat on the Shadowlands that has to be repelled. So while it doesn't make sense for a Kyrian to come down to Azeroth to fight pirates and trolls, it does make sense if they are coming to fend off evil Naaru or Voidlords.

Yeah I agree with that sentiment though I doubt they'd have only 1 of the Covenants become an Allied Race (even if it were for both sides).

I very much agree on the last paragraph though, and also if anyone hasn't noticed yet, we are basically following the typical "there's an even bigger bad right around the next corner" and now we're facing beings greater than titans so I'm unsure where Blizzard is going to go next but we are very much in DBZ territory as far as our character power and the villains are growing.

[Vakir]

The Night Fae theatre thing is amazing. Bringing Ember Island Players to WoW.

[Nagawithlegs]

Nathanos' relationship with Sylvanas is strained. The dynamic is clearly unhealthy where she gives him orders and he obeys. Nathanos may not even know about Sylvanas' larger goal.

It's sad how while Nathanos is loyal to her, she's clearly loyal to something else. They're not devoted to each other to the same degree.

Even if you're not a fan of Nathanos, his complete rejection by Sylvanas at the end of the novel should have an emotional impact--we've just spent the whole book following him around, showing how loyal he is.

Nathanos failing at killing Bwonsamdi may remind Sylvanas of her past failures--Saurfang's line about failure got under her skin. While Nathanos may be one more failure in her past, Sylvanas may also feel that she succeeded at destroying the Helm of Domination without her help, and her destiny is somewhere else now, away from her past and people that fail her.

From the writer of Shadows Rising. Nathanos is totally fucked.

[LemonDemonGirl]

From the writer of Shadows Rising. Nathanos is totally fucked.

Good. I hope he is

[Raetary]

his complete rejection by Sylvanas at the end of the novel

Right, i need to sit down and listen to the rest of the audiobook.

[Vakir]

Even if you're not a fan of Nathanos, his complete rejection by Sylvanas at the end of the novel should have an emotional impact--we've just spent the whole book following him around, showing how loyal he is.

Hardly. Is there a term for a level of satisfaction at misfortune beyond schadenfreude? Because this is like, cosmic-level schadenfreude.

[gunner_recall]

From the writer of Shadows Rising. Nathanos is totally fucked.

I wasn't planning on trying to finish it today but well

It's not like I have anything else to do today.

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Hardly. Is there a term for a level of satisfaction at misfortune beyond schadenfreude? Because this is like, cosmic-level schadenfreude.

Sylvanas won't let him mod for her twitch channel anymore.

[kaid]

From the writer of Shadows Rising. Nathanos is totally fucked.

Its pretty clear she views him as a tool and nothing more. If the tool works use it if it dosn't discard it.