Blizzard is currently failing with the Covenant system

[Orwell7]

They are only failing because this community never lets them make the game they want to make.
No matter what is said or what logic is applied, people refuse to ever see it another way than what suits them best.

I'm sure there are a variety of things that could be better, but in reality this is just another system that doesn't line up with what vocal players want so all of a sudden it becomes a problem for everyone.

Why is Blizzard AGAINST the players, though?

Maybe they could communicate it better, like: have a "life" class (=classes) and a "death" class (=covenants).
But they shouldn't make it just 1+1 ability, they should have gone all-in, like 5-10 new abilities per death class, now that would be a good reason.

Also, increasing the 5-player dungeon cap to maybe 6-7 players? This way there wouldn't be a "strict" 5-player meta where you HAVE to bring CERTAIN class/spec/covenant combos to cover all that is must-have, like interrupts, hard CC, buffs, debuffs, dispels and so on.
With more players more areas (I'm not talking about damage/healing!) are covered so there isn't a strictly superior choice BECAUSE an extra ability or mechanic-skip or something like that, so players are "free" to pursue their interests and only care about... well, meaningful RPG choices.

But this, where already god-like specs get even more to play with, and already forgotten specs like enha/shadow/WW/feral are still getting left behind no matter their covenants? Problems are getting piled up.

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Being better at one type of encounter =/= you are terrible at the others. They are intending for you to have an ADVANTAGE, not be terrible at the other pieces of content.

Just like "how exciting to get a Legendary" meant if you got your shit ones you felt really really bad.
It's not an advantage if it's expected.

[Nagawithlegs]

Just like "how exciting to get a Legendary" meant if you got your shit ones you felt really really bad.
It's not an advantage if it's expected.

It's a different scenario though. It's like how certain classes play better in AOE situations while still doing fine in ST.

[Vilendor]

Being better at one type of encounter =/= you are terrible at the others. They are intending for you to have an ADVANTAGE, not be terrible at the other pieces of content.

Being worst than anyone else who choose the correct covenant == terrible

It's just basic human psychology. If you suck 3 times out of 4, that's not "advantage" and everyone will hate it

[klaps_05]

If its not clear yet - yes, blizzard is asking you in which content area do you want to specialize, while under-performing in the others permanently.

[Orwell7]

It's a different scenario though. It's like how certain classes play better in AOE situations while still doing fine in ST.

I disagree - Legendaries were supposed to shake up the meta (like Covenants now) because you are locked into 2-4 of them, some gave ST increases, some AoE, and some were utility.
And I was upset like now because I grinded all my AP into Destruction, then came Cenarius where Destro's ST was utter shit, my legos were "mediocre" so I went to grind Demo, and it was still better without it's specific legos.

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How many threads do people need to cry about Covenants in?

As much as it needs to reverse this Covenant-locking thing!

[Vilendor]

It's a different scenario though. It's like how certain classes play better in AOE situations while still doing fine in ST.

Yeah, that's the biggest bullshit i have ever read. And this is coming from a feral druid, fed up with this bullshit. There is no such a thing as ST dps.

[Puupi]

Blizzard has two options to fix the covenant system:

1. give players the possibility to change their covenant at will
2. make covenants meaningless power-wise. Nerf the abilities to the ground or remove them entirely, same goes for the passives.

Now I'm certain Blizzard won't do either of these things, but they should really go with #1.

[Osmeric]

They are only failing because this community never lets them make the game they want to make.

You act like that's a problem.

Look, the purpose of a consumer product is to serve the consumers, not the egos of the people making the product. Their reward is the money they earn that keeps them from being homeless failures.

[Lindon]

..Which 3 situations are you referring to that you'll be bad at.

Oh boy. I can guarantee that he well never answer that question.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Oh boy. I can guarantee that he well never answer that question.

I'll continue to wait,

You act like that's a problem.

Look, the purpose of a consumer product is to serve the consumers, not the egos of the people making the product. Their reward is the money they earn that keeps them from being homeless failures.

Presuming the Consumer is always right and never incorrect.

[Vakir]

You act like that's a problem.

Look, the purpose of a consumer product is to serve the consumers, not the egos of the people making the product. Their reward is the money they earn that keeps them from being homeless failures.

I'd argue on a medium-wide level, games have the capacity to be art and reflect a certain vision or meaning, but WoW...ain't one of those times, yeah. Especially not with AAA products, where developers are crafting the vision of hundreds with a ton of input from both studio and developer demands. It is literally a product more of the community with 16 years of continuity, passion, and yes, sometimes vitriol. There's just too much wrapped up in public perception and a culture that has been cultivated a certain way with casual elements implemented in Wrath and Mists for some of the reaction to this system, although many also seem to be on board.

There's a cool place for semi-permanent player power, but it's in a different version of WoW I'd love to see, but not the one my character with time sunk currently inhabits.

[MrLachyG]

I'd be perfectly happy with that solution, just like I would've been happy with the same thing for Legiondaries in (at least early) Legion, for example. Unfortunately a lot of people wouldn't, and I completely understand that, especially the "I'm getting weaker by entering an instance" fear.

yeah which is why they won't do it. the only other solution I can think of is to transfer anima power/renown from one Covenant to another so that you don't lose progress. But even that flies against what they want the Covenant system to be. I don't know the exact cost of unlocking the Covenant abilities but I reckon you should get them straight away if you switch from another Covenant but you don't get to keep your progress from said Covenant (it stays with the one you originally picked). that way, people who stick with a Covenant get rewarded and the people who like to push the absolute max for that extra 75 dps/hps can swap with no penalty but only have access to the Covenant ability - NOTHING ELSE. no soulbinds, no Sanctum, nothing.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

You're the one misreading in this case. 10% for the main player plus 4% for each player (times 4 for a full group) is 26%.

That literally is not what it says.

"Activating your Venthyr class ability grants 10% Versatility to you, and 4% Versatility to up to 4 nearby allies. Lasts 10 sec."

The total Versatility does go up to 26%, but it won't be 26% for any single player. The person using the ability gets 10%, the up to 4 other players each get 4%, if you don't understand that then you need to reread the tooltip until you notice that very important comma and the fact that the word "for" isn't present in the tooltip.

To emphasize: The word "for" is not in that tooltip.

[crakerjack]

Maybe you're right about the ST abilities in M+. I doubt it, but maybe. But the ones I listed as being bad in Arena? Those are going to stay bad in Arena unless something is changed. It is absolutely not too early to make blanket statements about certain abilities. You're also making an assumption that the abilities that work in AOE aren't good for ST. In Resonating Arrow's case that isn't true at all. 30% crit is good on ST or AOE.

I'm also not angry about Shadowlands at all. I don't get mad at WoW period. If they do something I really hate, I just quit. Hence why I'm not playing 8.3 currently. Because I don't like Corruption. But this is beta so there's times for things to change, so I figured I'd point out some problems I see in the system.

I'm mad at WoW. 8.3 is a shit show and has killed my urge to play. The only thing I do now is the gold emissaries on all 12 of my alts to farm gold. Hoping to have a decent amount saved up for Shadowlands launches.

[Musta]

We know, they know, everybody knows and they will do nothing because blizz thinks they are better than feedback

[Th3Scourge]

No they're not. Pick the one you find most fun, numbers will always change.

This is exactly the problem that will kill the system.

People that hold this opinion aren't even playing the same game.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

We know, they know, everybody knows and they will do nothing because blizz thinks they are better than feedback

These comments don't help at all, and its probably that they disagree with the feedback..which they have every right to do so.

yeah which is why they won't do it. the only other solution I can think of is to transfer anima power/renown from one Covenant to another so that you don't lose progress. But even that flies against what they want the Covenant system to be. I don't know the exact cost of unlocking the Covenant abilities but I reckon you should get them straight away if you switch from another Covenant but you don't get to keep your progress from said Covenant (it stays with the one you originally picked). that way, people who stick with a Covenant get rewarded and the people who like to push the absolute max for that extra 75 dps/hps can swap with no penalty but only have access to the Covenant ability - NOTHING ELSE. no soulbinds, no Sanctum, nothing.

I don't think you will lose your renown when switching, I think it was said somewhere it would stay the same.

[Th3Scourge]

They are only failing because this community never lets them make the game they want to make.
No matter what is said or what logic is applied, people refuse to ever see it another way than what suits them best.

I'm sure there are a variety of things that could be better, but in reality this is just another system that doesn't line up with what vocal players want so all of a sudden it becomes a problem for everyone.

Ok so let's do a little thought experiment for a second. You play a BDK, yes? And you stream a lot of M+, yes?

Right, now say you want to go with Kyrian, you love that shit, the aesthetic, the theme, the RP shit or whatever. BUT, the ability will be absolutely useless for you in a key when compared to Venthyr, both the on-use for RP generation, damage and mitigation, and for the teleport, which will be ABSOLUTELY BUSTED in keys.

There's no choice there, you're gimping yourself and your group by going with one over the other, and if you are the one forming the group you will also be building your group composition based on what covenant they are aligned to.

Sure, they can make the game however they want. Go for it. You know what will continue to happen? People will quit. They need to listen to the feedback.

[Musta]

These comments don't help at all, and its probably that they disagree with the feedback..which they have every right to do so.




I don't think you will lose your renown when switching, I think it was said somewhere it would stay the same.

watching the interview with preach and man, i got disappointed just like him, it was on his face and the reasons were clear, Ion just lacks the emotional inteligence of the playerbase.

[Poppincaps]

That literally is not what it says.

"Activating your Venthyr class ability grants 10% Versatility to you, and 4% Versatility to up to 4 nearby allies. Lasts 10 sec."

The total Versatility does go up to 26%, but it won't be 26% for any single player. The person using the ability gets 10%, the up to 4 other players each get 4%, if you don't understand that then you need to reread the tooltip until you notice that very important comma and the fact that the word "for" isn't present in the tooltip.

To emphasize: The word "for" is not in that tooltip.

lol I think we're all misunderstanding each other here. I mean the main player gets 10% and each of the other players in the group get 4%. The 26% is the total versatility that the group gets as a whole, not any single player.