Best way to bring out the stars in the Kaldorei (Children of the Stars)?

[ravenmoon]

I'm going to reiterate a point I've made previously as well in a previous thread, so many seem to pop up and all of them could've been mere posts in just one.

It is redundant for Blizzard develop the Highborne/Children of the Stars side of Night Elves when that aspect of their society is represented perfectly already with the Nightborne.

That's like saying it's redundant to develop the Light side of the Draenei when that aspect is represented in the Lightforged. So far the stars side hasn't been fleshed out anywhere distinctively, why shouldn't it be fleshed out in the race called the Children of the stars? If the purpose of the Nightborne is a reflection of the kaldorei accessible to the horde with it's own unique chronomancy and warpcasting features - then it's fine to share somethigns as Nightborne are rooted in the kaldorei.

Bu it's the kaldorei that should be developed thus right?

It adds nothing new and it doesn't make the Night Elves more unique. Blizzard is better off doubling down on the forest-y part of Night Elves if they want them to be unique and distinct.

You mena the foresty aspect common in every single fantasy depicting elves, and the wood elf trope showing every single time - you mean that is what's unique and distinct versus a hybrid dark elf/wood elf with a star focus centre which to me feels a lot more unique than usual wood elf.

Would I like to see a deep and complex Night Elf culture? Of course, I would like to see deep and complex cultures - across the board-, but Blizzard isn't going to be capable of pulling such off whilst making it sufficiently different from the Nightborne.

I have more faith in Blizzard creating something cool with a much more narrow scope.

Well why don't we ask it of them? Why are we criticising each other and instead demanding more of them? THey called those elves Night elves, not wood elves, they callled them Children of the Stars, not children of the forest. They them a star reachign civilization and world utopic empire, they made them birthed from the arcane, and filled with aptitude for it - they also developed their nature side which they put on the condition of preventing the legion's return which they remove at the end of the very first game they introduce them.

They are the ones that said they are DARK elves with a wood elf half, they are the ones that put the Stars in them.


Asking them to expand more on this and provide a more in-depth night elf race based on the works we see in the novels , encyclopedia descriptions and chronicles is not unreasonable. Ofc I expect htis more in the Night elf parent core race. it's a core race. it's fine for the Nightborne to focus mainly on a city and the pre-sundeirng highborne culture, but i expect a lot more for the core race than I would for the sub-race - especially if they're not continuing Nightborne in their kaldorei origins but making them something else.

#if they came out re-iterating that Nightborne are a side of the kaldorei, and view themselves like the new type of Highborne, and the name is both a caste as well as a racial identity and you should view them as Shal'dorei Kaldorei - then fine, all the star changes of the kaldorei should be available to the Nightborne. If they are going to develop them together seriously as halves of the same coin, I would accept the Darnasisans showing the stars more heavily in a nature, forest setting and the Nightborne doing it from a city setting - it doesn't mean i woudln't expect night elves to get a city themselves or their Highborne to disappear, quite the opposite actually, not only would i expect a night elven city, but also more Highborne activity especially alongside Nightborne.

butas you say, blizz don't develop these things much, they do a great show for the opening and then it's like they forget everything.

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He will not listen to you, but thanks for trying.

I quite clearly heard him and responded, asking questions of him,.. I don't just automatically agere with what a person says, especially if they say something I don't agree with, we can deep dive into why.

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According to him, it's our fault that Blizzard chooses to focus on those aspects of the night elves.
He probably thinks we're sat at Blizzard HQ and holding the story developers at gun point, saying "Don't include nelf mages in the story."

If Blizzard are choosing to focus on these very "W3" aspects of the Night Elves, then shouldn't we be having a positive conversation about these aspects and where they might go, rather than a near-extinct faction of Mages who have been attacked and almost killed, thrice over or the Illidari Nelfs, who aren't part of the Night Elves of the Alliance, by lore standards (if Jace or Kor'vas is seen in Darkshore or Hyjal, give me a nudge won't you.) Just like Kayn and Allari aren't part of Silvermoon or the Horde, by lore standards.

When we Blood Elf fans talk about the Silvermoon forces, I don't recall ever seeing a Blood Elf fan talk about the Illidari Demon Hunters, because we know, by lore standards, they aren't part of the Horde, so it's foolish of us to talk about them.

What you are doing is different from what blizzard is doing, you are ignoring anything that doesn't fit your media campaign for night elves, you are doing it intentionally. Not once do i ever cry down or ignore the forest side of the night elves, being a supporter and lover of it, but you constantly seem to both oppose and ignore every evidence and presentation of the magical arcane, star side and aspect of the night elves which is clearly there.

I do what I do based on what blizzard has shown - I'm not blaming blizzard (most times, some things I do), I'm calling you out for what you do.

[DeltrusDisc]

How would stars in their hair work? Or look like?

This sounds interesting and all, but tbh, I think you're the only one really into night elves like this. The developers I don't think care that much. THey're happy with them having the forest elf theme as their core fantasy, if they wanted to go for the more unique star elf theme, they'd have done it by now.

But in case they ever do, some of these thoughts would be really cool to run with.

I don't think you've been paying attention long-term: Blizzard has a lot of things they've always wanted to do, but usually it comes down to money, resources, and does it fit at the moment. Maybe, with the burning of Teldrassil, Blizzard will finally have the chance to do something new with the Night Elves.

[Beloren]

They may have been Azshara's revered Arcanists, but the Thalassian Magi and the Human Magi extend their knowledge from Zin-Azshari itself. Suramar's Magi also holds vast knowledge, which also impresses Sylvanas. Draenei Mages, as seen on Mac'Aree and on AU Draenor, is something that Blizzard was able to make work by being something different and interesting. It's none of these races' faults, nor their fans' faults, that Blizzard simply chose to make the Shen'dralar a very, very small part of night elf society and only using them if absolutely necessary. This is further proof that the past 2 expansions have had 3 zones dedicated to night elf mages and yet we've only seen Kirin Tor Night Elves (for the Legion zones) and Shandris Feathermoon and Faelie Seawhisper (both night elf huntresses) in Nazjatar.

.

Thalassians and Darnasisans lost the majority of the pre-sundering knowledge
Thalasisans sort of rebuilt from scratch, but most of the knowledge is still lost at least up till Legion
Humans have everything they have from Thalassians and rely on the lost knowledge
Shen'dralar and Nightborne - are from two arcane society cities that didn't lose anything, however these people have only recently started interacting with the races - we don't know how much knowledge they share atm.

We can assume the Shen'dralar teach the new night elves they recruit, just as much as older Nightborne would teach younger upcoming nightborne. What we don't know is if these people share with the humans, high elves and blood elves - I would assume they do, but I wouldn't be surprised if blizzard came out and said they didn't.

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I don't think you've been paying attention long-term: Blizzard has a lot of things they've always wanted to do, but usually it comes down to money, resources, and does it fit at the moment. Maybe, with the burning of Teldrassil, Blizzard will finally have the chance to do something new with the Night Elves.

Maybe. OP certainly hopes so, but I'd rather they focus on the blodo elves and Nightborne, becuase this is where they've shown this stuff of the most. Let the alliance elves be the forest elves (druidic for night elves, wood elf ranger for high elves) and let the horde elves do the arcane stuff - it's much easier to manage that way right?

[Powerogue]

My recommendation would be creating a sub race of night elves like Night elf worgen to carry on that pure forest identity, but have the night elves continue to have it’s broader scope.

Oh my god you're absolutely right! I see it now! We could have one sub race that has the forest identity, having things like customizable leaves in the hair, dark night warrior eyes, wild hair, and scars from wild beasts or the burning of teldrassil. Aw man that would be epic.



Then we could have a second one that just focuses on the star and magic themes, with customizations to match.

[video hopefully pending, but I am absolutely on board with having my nightborne look like Aaravos]

[ravenmoon]

Maybe. OP certainly hopes so, but I'd rather they focus on the blodo elves and Nightborne, becuase this is where they've shown this stuff of the most. Let the alliance elves be the forest elves (druidic for night elves, wood elf ranger for high elves) and let the horde elves do the arcane stuff - it's much easier to manage that way right?

Yes, in other words, let blizzard do all the things you want for the races you don't care about, and do nothing that the people who really like the race actually would like to see more off.

If they listen to you over us, it shows bias.

[Isilrien]

I quite clearly heard him and responded, asking questions of him,.. I don't just automatically agere with what a person says, especially if they say something I don't agree with, we can deep dive into why...

Edit: You know what? Nevermind. This is utterly exhausting. I see now why talking to an oblivious or stubborn person is equated to talking to a brick wall.

[Tanaria]

Thalassians and Darnasisans lost the majority of the pre-sundering knowledge
Thalasisans sort of rebuilt from scratch, but most of the knowledge is still lost at least up till Legion

If the Thalassians had to rebuild from scratch, how were they able to set up such brilliant defenses which secured their kingdom from not only the watchful gaze of Sargeras who was still planning his next invasion, but also keeping the corrupted Red Dragons at bay.

These were ancient magics that the Quel'dorei weaved and they worked.

What you are doing is different from what blizzard is doing, you are ignoring anything that doesn't fit your media campaign for night elves, you are doing it intentionally. Not once do i ever cry down or ignore the forest side of the night elves, being a supporter and lover of it, but you constantly seem to both oppose and ignore every evidence and presentation of the magical arcane, star side and aspect of the night elves which is clearly there.

I do what I do based on what blizzard has shown - I'm not blaming blizzard (most times, some things I do), I'm calling you out for what you do.

But you do have an issue with what Blizzard are showing. Or you have a problem with us telling you how it's going. I mean, the next night elf story chapter appears to be their faith in Elune and where that goes.
I mean, this isn't me writing this story, that's them. They are clearly not putting a focus on "night elf mages" or the whole "arcane side" to them. It's a clear directive on their next chapter.

[Beloren]

If the Thalassians had to rebuild from scratch, how were they able to set up such brilliant defenses which secured their kingdom from not only the watchful gaze of Sargeras who was still planning his next invasion, but also keeping the corrupted Red Dragons at bay.

These were ancient magics that the Quel'dorei weaved and they worked.

We've had 7,000 years to get where we are, and that is still with most of the pre-sundering kaldorei knowledge missing = WE ARE AMAZING ! Now imagine how much further we could go with knowledge from the Nightborne??? We would surpass them all.

The way I understand it, pre-sundering kaldorei society and life was on a different level to now. The world is in post-apocalypse state for elves. We've made the most gains of everyone else from the old world, the Darnasisans just played around in the forest - and the other groups literally hid with all their know how and study - isn't that just disgusting?


But, we'll catch up soon, the Nightborne represent a huge opportunity for a lot of knowledge and advancements, they'll either become a part of us soon or at the very least we'll get their knowledge and not really need them.

[ravenmoon]

Edit: You know what? Nevermind. This is utterly exhausting. I see now why talking to an oblivious or stubborn person is equated to talking to a brick wall.

Okay, but you do realise you haven't really made a point, just complained about me not getting others' point. It would help if you did. It's also okay to agree to disagree.

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But you do have an issue with what Blizzard are showing. Or you have a problem with us telling you how it's going. I mean, the next night elf story chapter appears to be their faith in Elune and where that goes.
I mean, this isn't me writing this story, that's them. They are clearly not putting a focus on "night elf mages" or the whole "arcane side" to them. It's a clear directive on their next chapter.

Blizzard will switch focuses up on races to make them more interesting, in legion. You are drawing conclusions about night elves basedo n the parts of what they show that stand out the most to you.

Did you not still see Night elf mages in BFA, and night elf empire stuff too? Was it only druids and hunters you saw?

Blizzard aren't ditching the night elf mage or the night elf Highborne nor any part of it's lore. Did the absence of demon hunters mean they're ditching them and they have no relevance?

I could argue stupidly that the light focus on the blood elves means they're ditching the arcane - but that's stupid, the focus has just switched to that, it would probably move more of the Farstrider side next, it doesn't mean the arcane and light aren't a part.


For the night elves, you have the arcane, demon hunting as major alternative parts of the race, so if they focus sometimes on the druids, other times on the sentinel female warriors, but then other times on the Highborne and arcane side of the night elves (not just Highborne), and other times the demon hunters.. what does that tell you?

Fantasies are there for people who like them and desire them, and they have good enough basis.

Night elves are in constant decline in wow, everything about them is declining, until they start restoring the night elves, this won't change, they've just lost a cpaital city and all their lands, they're not building anything or getting better, their recent revenge campaign just lost them even more lives though they attributed with a canon victory -

Shall we also say they're no longer druids and sentinels? you're not making sense to me.

[Tanaria]

Your not making sense to many people, with the repeating threads of headcanon because you can't cope with the idea that maybe...just maybe, night elves aren't staple Mages anymore.

I don't need to make constant threads about how perfect and amazing Blood Elven Mages are, because it's a common thing that many people know already. I mean, your bias for night elves is laughable to be perfectly honest. How you actually keep believing to yourself that the night elves are better than blood elves in every aspect (even Warlock-magic as I've seen you and Mace say before, despite night elves not even being able to be Warlocks) because all you see in blood elves is that they are Farstriders.

So guess what - I'm doing exactly what your doing, but with Night Elves. They are only Warriors, Hunters, Wardens, Druids and Priests. They aren't Mages.

[yana]

Just play a nightborne and let it go jesus.
If you dislike what the night elves are atm go to greener pastures, what you want is already present in the nightborne go enjoy them, be at peace my dudes, take pleasure in your vainglorious magical elves.

Anyways, night elves are very connected to ardenweald as it seems, so if the highborne need to take up any kind of magic, is that type of fae sorcery that would fit well with the druidic and night themes the kaldorei have in their man organizations, and their story so far has been one of humblity and reconection to the non highborne culture that they were once seperate from.
It makes no sense to keep a status and a title that only serves to create a caste system where the highborne are on top, they have been embraced so logicaly they would stride into the future inspired by the majority of night elves, so with druidic and divine inspirations, to use their knowledge to connect and elevate everyone, not to put themselves into a pedestal of false nobility and aristrocracy.

And like i dont see the drama, night elves use star magic like every other sunday priestess of the moon use it, im pretty sure maiev summons a couple of moonfires and star bursts in illidan novel, her hots rendition has a talent that rains down stars with her fan of knives.
you want them to look like the nightborne, just say it and move on lol

[Powerogue]

But you do have an issue with what Blizzard are showing. Or you have a problem with us telling you how it's going. I mean, the next night elf story chapter appears to be their faith in Elune and where that goes.
I mean, this isn't me writing this story, that's them. They are clearly not putting a focus on "night elf mages" or the whole "arcane side" to them. It's a clear directive on their next chapter.

The last times I remember night elf mages being brought up were Maiev losing her mind at Dire Maul highborne being allowed in the boughs of Teldrassil and killing a bunch of them, and Tyrande, furious at how she was once again cleaning up the mess left by kaldorei mages selling their source of magic to the Burning Legion, refusing to reach out a hand of compassion towards them when it came to rebuilding. A void that would be filled by the blood elves of the Horde instead.

The Darnassians have had their chance to rekindle their relationship with the original "Children of the Stars", and we have their answer.

[yana]

The last times I remember night elf mages being brought up were Maiev losing her mind at Dire Maul highborne being allowed in the boughs of Teldrassil and killing a bunch of them, and Tyrande, furious at how she was once again cleaning up the mess left by kaldorei mages selling their source of magic to the Burning Legion, refusing to reach out a hand of compassion towards them when it came to rebuilding. A void that would be filled by the blood elves of the Horde instead.

The Darnassians have had their chance to rekindle their relationship with the original "Children of the Stars", and we have their answer.

good ridance, purple blood elves belong in the horde and those tacky ass ikea looking clothing and weapons.
And the highborne really are pretty much a non issue, most of them died in dire maul and again culled in the war of thorns, id wager that a good amount of kaldorei magi are newly trained ones witout any of the highborne cultural marking and upbringing.

[Tanaria]

good ridance, purple blood elves belong in the horde and those tacky ass ikea looking clothing and weapons.

Better that than the "Human Potential" of an 18 year old.
You can keep the night elves - they love serving their Human overlords.

[Isilrien]

Okay, but you do realise you haven't really made a point, just complained about me not getting others' point. It would help if you did. It's also okay to agree to disagree...

Then let's agree to disagree. I DID make a point pages ago that said (to rephrase it) that Blizzard has developed the star theme and put it on the Nightborne. You don't like or accept that, or so I understand from what you've said. I think that what you're asking for is already in the game. You want something else. That's fine, but you are not going to convince some or even many people here, on this forum, because they do not agree with you and have no power to grant your wish. You are not going to find a consensus here, so I'm baffled as to why you keep insisting on posting this here when you've already done so many times and only gotten mostly grief for it.

Again, so you stop quoting me: we're agreeing to disagree. Ok? Please do not quote me again so that I don't have to feel obligated to respond to be polite. Please? Thanks

[yana]

Better that than the "Human Potential" of an 18 year old.
You can keep the night elves - they love serving their Human overlords.

i mean tyrande told anduin to fuck off like two times already, the nightborne are pretty much being the blood elves bitches, in more than one sense, but at least oculeth can open a portal from time to time
and of course show how noble baine is.
i cant wait for the pastel babies with mana addiction at birth those two races will make!

[Utrrabbit]

The answer is no.

No one cares.

[Beloren]

I could argue stupidly that the light focus on the blood elves means they're ditching the arcane - but that's stupid, the focus has just switched to that, it would probably move more of the Farstrider side next, it doesn't mean the arcane and light aren't a part.

e.

I would like more of the farstrider side to show up - they look so cool, and carry out the wood elf vibe better than nelves.

[Tanaria]

I can't wait to see how much food night elf druids have produced for their human farmer overlords.

[Powerogue]

Better that than the "Human Potential" of an 18 year old.
You can keep the night elves - they love serving their Human overlords.

I.....would read Shadows Rising.

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i cant wait for the pastel babies with mana addiction at birth those two races will make!

Bloodborne or elf-elves?