List other RPG games with irreversible Gameplay Customization like Covenants

[ClassicPeon]

I chuckle every time I hear “competitive” in a tab target RPG game.

This is a whole different discussion. You are obviously just saying it to spite people but please stay on topic

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Because it seems you will limited by the farm you can do each week toward your covenant. So you have covenant leveled up, you want to switch, it will be several week before you get back to the point you were in the other covenant.

In case, you want to switch back because the new covenant was not fun or whatever, I do not know if you keep your progression.

You do keep your progression. And its the nature of the system. Ofcourse you have to start over if - you want to start over. Like that just makes sense.

[facefist]

List the number of RPGs that lets you respec everything every 5 minutes without even going back to town.

You can't change specialization in wow unless going to town though. Talents, yes.

[Echocho]

You can't change specialization in wow unless going to town though. Talents, yes.

Uh, yes you can? I'm doing it right now out in the middle of nowhere.

[SirBeef]

Im talking "mid-game" customization options.
You play for 10 hours, the game asks you to make a "gameplay customization" choice and if you want to try the other choices you need to create a new save file.

If you dont agree "creating a new save file" is a fair comparison, then show a game that is incredibly TAXING to change customization options.

NOT talking about a "class" and start of game character decisions like the new remake of Trials of Mana where you need to pick your party at the start of the game and need to create a new save file to experience other stories.

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Ion Hazzikostas repeatedly tells us the covenant system is more "RPG"...................but i never in my life played an RPG game with irreversible customization options

Educate me to what great RPGs i've missed

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Lastly i wanted to say I DONT have an agenda against the covenant system
I genuinly dont care.

Im just confused by the RPG argument Ion spams on every interview because i dont know any game with this system

I agree it sounds very RPG-like though

You do know you can change your covenant?

[Echocho]

I chuckle every time I hear “competitive” in a tab target RPG game.

We found Lazy Peon everyone!

[WaltherLeopold]

There are several layers of shit in the Covenant respec debacle that they could get rid of and make the game objectively better, but if they only want to go in half-measures then even coming up with a currency like echoes that is used exclusively for changing covenant would be better than the current concept. Just let me play the fucking game. Doing chores once is enough, let me raid or do M+ or whatever and save up to change my covenants, fine. But if they think I (and other people like me) am going to pay them money every month for the privilege of doing three weeks of world quests every time I want to try a teleport instead of a shield they're dreaming.

3 weeks of mild "chores" isn't a punishment. Especially when it's very likely to be more like 5 hours of actual gameplay.

[arkanon]

You can't change specialization in wow unless going to town though. Talents, yes.

Your mind is about to be BLOWN!!!

[Protean]

Im talking "mid-game" customization options.
You play for 10 hours, the game asks you to make a "gameplay customization" choice and if you want to try the other choices you need to create a new save file.

New upcoming vampire the masquerade game.
Any neverwinter nights
Any baldur's gate
Planescape torment
Any icewind dale
pathfinder kingmaker
pillars of eternity
Any witcher
Nier automata
any souls-like game
Any dishonored game
Skyrim/fallout

[Garymorilix]

Gothic series (1-2-3), Risen, Elex. (Basically Piranha Bytes stuff).
Especially Gothic 1-2, one of the most highly rated RPG's since it came out.

The whole point in these games is that you choose your faction and you literally can't change after that.

Get your arguements together. Choosing a faction is as old an RPG mechanic as time.

[Masternap]

While I was thinking I actually realized that almost every single RPG I've ever played, from SNES to now, has some kind of permanent choice that impacts your power level. Great thread.

[LanToaster]

The thing is, you are (at least from all I´ve read) talking about SinglePlayer Story Driven RPGs.

There are two main differences that you need to mind (in my Opinion)

First: You are (mostly) alone in your world, and its supposed to be that way, you dont have to play with others. That means every decision you do is yours to make, and you are neither affected by stuff others do, nor do you affect others.
You can Cheat the living hell, or you can play most casual, or pick the most worthless traits/choices. Or Min/Max the living crap out of your Character and Steamroll through everything.

Second: The game is usually complete by the time you play it. That means you (at least you are able to) know exactly how your choice will affect your Future gameplay, so you can do an Informed choice and know the downsides.

Now, how does that affect/translate to WoW:
First:
You are supposed to play with others in an MMO, that means the Choices of others do affect you, and your choices affect others. That means, if you choose an Inferior Covenant, you are always reminded that you perform worse than others. In the Worst case scenario you are forced into a Covenant you dont like/want. Social Pressure is a thing, e.g. my Group doesnt care about individual DPS, we kill bosses and have fun. Still people who do only half the amount of Damage than others feel bad.

Second:
This is the most concerning part for me. And the actual reason why I will choose my Covenant based on non Combat stuff. (E.g. Transmog/Lore).
We can only see/test/know the initial Covenant Abilities/Traits, and how they affect your Character or Perform in any given Situation.

Not only thinking about the MidSeason Tuning patches of Nerfs/Buffs that will change the Meta, the "Usefullness" of Abilities/Traits will change from Season to Season, with progression of Gear, and probably Additions.

That way its nearly impossible to make an Informed decision, that you will not likely regret later on.

[facefist]

Your mind is about to be BLOWN!!!

Nope.

I play only the real wow (classic).

[rhorle]

Nope. I play only the real wow (classic).

But this discussion isn't about Classic in any shape or form. So it is weird to comment as if its rules apply.

[arkanon]

Nope.

I play only the real wow (classic).

So when you made THIS comment recently, you were mistaken?

"Been subbed for only 2 months after a year-long break and got invited so I'm very surprised. Been playing every expac since vanilla though, but I usually play every expac for only 6-12 months. "

This is you - you made this comment. Combine that with the fact you have only ever posts like 3 times on the classic forum, and it was about TBC, and 95% of your posts are in the SL sub forum, it would appear you are making shit up.

or this comment?

Unless you raid, then its World of Ranged Craft.

I think the problem with mage and solo content is that out of all classes, it's the only class that is consistently in the top 3 DPS classes in raid environment (and often it's #1). If you want to pick a class that is more often a top-tier dps than bottom-tier dps, then mage is the safest choice based on the history. Even now it is the best DPS class in raids and arguably overpowered, and there are several tiers where mages were simply broken. I've been playing mage for a long long time in a semi-hc guild (top 50), and I cannot recall many tiers where mage was bad.

This punishes solo players because they cannot buff mage even though it is very unoptimal for solo play, because otherwise it would be just.. more op in raid content. They would have to change the way mage works (reduce the ramp-up time) if they want to buff it for solo content. This would change the core of the class though so I'm not sure if people would like that or not.

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But this discussion isn't about Classic in any shape or form. So it is weird to comment as if its rules apply.

See above - 15 seconds of "research" shows they are just attempting to "troll", or got caught being wrong and panicked.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I would assume that any CRPG or tabletop RPG is like that. Even many ARPGs are like that. MMORPGs are by default a different beast.

I think ARPGs are already an exception. Just think about diablo3 for example. Practically once you implement multiplayer and life service gameplay it becomes kinda iffy to lock people into choices, more so if you have different activities ingame that require different builds, which is where MMORPGs become especially bad. There is a reason why MMORPGs have moved away from it and WoW never had it to begin with.

[Lodreh]

Skyrim... Imperial or Stormcloak?

[Echocho]

This thread should really be locked since the title contains a blatant lie. You can change covenants as many times as you want in shadowlands.

[arkanon]

This thread should really be locked since the title contains a blatant lie. You can change covenants as many times as you want in shadowlands.

Not only that, but OP is WELL AWARE of this, and simply ignores the many people pointing it out throughout the thread. When someone has such a strong agenda, like OP, they ignore reality and seek out an echo chamber. Scroll through the thread - half a dozen people have pointed out you CAN change covenants, and OP has ignored every single one.

[Big Thanks]

This thread should really be locked since the title contains a blatant lie. You can change covenants as many times as you want in shadowlands.

Dude...why are some posters spaming this?

Blizzard SPAMMED in the interviews.

"We dont want you to keep switching covenants and we will make sure your life will be miserable and you will go to HELL if you switch covenants (we will also kill your dog and/or cat)"

Is made very clear...we...are...not...supposed...to...keep...changing...covenants.
You will lose progression everytime you switch

Are you insane enough to keep farming non stop the progression system of a new covenant?

[Justpassing]

Not only that, but OP is WELL AWARE of this, and simply ignores the many people pointing it out throughout the thread. When someone has such a strong agenda, like OP, they ignore reality and seek out an echo chamber. Scroll through the thread - half a dozen people have pointed out you CAN change covenants, and OP has ignored every single one.

That's kinda his whole deal.

Dude...why are some posters spaming this?

Blizzard SPAMMED in the interviews.

"We dont want you to keep switching covenants and we will make sure your life will be miserable and you will go to HELL if you switch covenants (we will also kill your dog and/or cat)"

Is made very clear...we...are...not...supposed...to...keep...changing...covenants.
You will lose progression everytime you switch

Are you insane enough to keep farming non stop the progression system of a new covenant?

That's just sad. Just stop.