Why soulbinds must be detached from covenants

[SecretAgent]

Each covenant has 3 soulbinds

4 covenants have 12 soulbinds

When you choose a covenant you are limited to choose between 3

Why not detach soulbinds from covenants? If you detach it

1) WE Get to have MORE CHOICES to choose from , we would choose 1 out of 12 and not 1 out of 3...
Now you say : min-max will tell you choose This one... but min-max will also tell which of the 3 i should choose

So why limit our choices to 3 when there is 12 ? Choosing out of 12 is a "meaningful" choice , choosing out of 3 is limiting my choice

2) More characters not related to covenants can be introduced with patches

3) Remove conduits , its a fcking relic system that no one likes and will make balancing HARDER because people will stack the BiS trait

[Malikath]

They all need to be offered without connection to the choice of covenant allegiance.
Just have the NPCs associated and the covenant PC guide NPCs offer the selection of the active role and mobility abilitiy options for their covenants since the entire framework puts us as the shared forces of the pantheon of death's alliance against the jailer and his allies.

I do think this should influence the covenant system on the backboard, with a portion of your anima earned being taxed to a set cap per day for the covenants you're using the powers from to pull you towards at least doing activities for them to get the anima back out of to contribute towards your power progression like it already does but just for the selected covenant, past the cap the anima should flow into your chosen covenant's store without hindrance.
This allows all players to shift with the meta and keep their choice of covenant with the only real tax being a slight time inefficiency in doing daily content by adding travel time between the realms.

[FuxieDK]

In TBC we were forced to choose between Aldor and Scryers.... Players didn't like it.. Among other things, because it was too hard/grind to switch. Luckily, it was primarily crafting recipes that was locked behind the factions.
In ShaLa, we have 4 to choose from and it seems to be even harder/grinder to switch, but even more mandatory to play all covenants, to get all pets/mounts.

Doesn't Blizzard learn from past mistakes?

[Notshauna]

Why not eliminate classes because choosing between 36 specializations is more choices than 2-4.

[Malikath]

Why not eliminate classes because choosing between 36 specializations is more choices than 2-4.

--- snip ---
you're arguing reduction to absurdity.

Mod Edit: This link was removed because it seems to be unsafe, unsure if it has been compromised.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

If there's one soulbind you want, choose the associated covenant.

The only reason to split the two is so you can hotswap mix and match as the trash pack requires. Or stack an OP soulbind of an UP covenant with an OP covenant instead. And that's the exact behavior Blizz is trying to discourage.

[Toby451]

Soulbinds are an important part of balancing the covenants. They are trying to get to a point where each covenant makes a compelling argument for your class. Ability from Covenant A is not BiS for your class but the soulbinds are. Meanwhile Covenant D has the best ability but the soulbinds are noticeably weaker.




Sounds good in theory but I don't believe such a delicate balance can be achieved. They are listening to feedback at least, we already saw Ion talk about changes to the conduits and them talking with Sloot about more GCD changes. So there is hope still.

[Thrif]

Admittedly I haven't looked into how much soulbinds will influence the characters, but yeah, I wouldn't mind having a wider selection. I have the feeling 3 choices are so few that one will come out the obvious winner, much like the talent trees are working nowadays.

[Seranthor]

Each covenant has 3 soulbinds

4 covenants have 12 soulbinds

When you choose a covenant you are limited to choose between 3

Why not detach soulbinds from covenants? If you detach it

1) WE Get to have MORE CHOICES to choose from , we would choose 1 out of 12 and not 1 out of 3...
Now you say : min-max will tell you choose This one... but min-max will also tell which of the 3 i should choose

So why limit our choices to 3 when there is 12 ? Choosing out of 12 is a "meaningful" choice , choosing out of 3 is limiting my choice

2) More characters not related to covenants can be introduced with patches

3) Remove conduits , its a fcking relic system that no one likes and will make balancing HARDER because people will stack the BiS trait

Maybe the soulbinds are part and parcel of the covenants, Maybe the soulbind you want is the reason you chose the covenant you chose.

[cozzri]

min-max is dead; it has been for quite some time. Having a character 100% optimized is a pipe dream. Just have fun playing.

[Sunslayer]

Yeah, seeing how subs also tanked during TBC and they basically lost half the people that joined during Vanilla, you'd think they would learn.

TBC crashing and burning and basically killing WoW was down to one thing...the Aldor vs Scryers disaster.

No..they will never learn and covenants will be the nail in the coffin. They will do what mission tables, pet battles, and bad writing could not do. Obliterate the game. I can already guarantee you there will be no next x-pac, because the last 50 000 ppl that still play WoW now will quit because of this.

They will basically sell zero copies of SL and the ppl who pre-ordered will take them to court over refunds. I know..I already cancelled and quit my sub

Blizzard is done, bankrupt and off the table.

Nothing about what youve said is even remotely accurate. There is tons of evidence that TBC saw absolute sub growth in total. TBC doubled the sub count of Vanilla. Vanilla had around 4-5 million. TBC had 10 million. Subs did not start dropping until mid-Wrath when WoW was at its peak of 12 million subs.

I think you are confusing WoD with TBC.

[Blackmist]

Why not eliminate classes because choosing between 36 specializations is more choices than 2-4.

This but unironically.

If a Druid can master casting, being a cat, a bear, and healing, then why can't my hunter learn to be a fire mage with a couple of hours of practice and some int gear? Thematically, it makes about as much sense.

[Venziir]

Each covenant has 3 soulbinds

4 covenants have 12 soulbinds

When you choose a covenant you are limited to choose between 3

Why not detach soulbinds from covenants? If you detach it

1) WE Get to have MORE CHOICES to choose from , we would choose 1 out of 12 and not 1 out of 3...
Now you say : min-max will tell you choose This one... but min-max will also tell which of the 3 i should choose

So why limit our choices to 3 when there is 12 ? Choosing out of 12 is a "meaningful" choice , choosing out of 3 is limiting my choice

2) More characters not related to covenants can be introduced with patches

3) Remove conduits , its a fcking relic system that no one likes and will make balancing HARDER because people will stack the BiS trait

The point is, that the people whom you bind with are all members of specific Covenants. Why would a Kyrian want to soulbind with you, if you are part of the Necrolords covenant?

[Hctaz]

There's only three choices per covenant? That's kinda ouch... I was suggesting that Covenant abilities not be tied to the individual Covenant choice and, instead, have Soulbinds be the source of character progression tied with your Covenant with the idea that there would be plenty of Soulbinds to choose from. Instead, it looks like there are no real choices within each Covenant is like 1 for DPS, 1 for damage reduction, and 1 for utility which just exacerbates the issue entirely... You not only have ONE ability to choose from but you also basically only have one Soulbind within each Covenant to choose from.

[Sunslayer]

I feel that way too much is tied to one choice. They need to uncouple some stuff. They could've set Soulbinds to the Maw, a neutral territory.

[Wuusah]

There's only three choices per covenant? That's kinda ouch... I was suggesting that Covenant abilities not be tied to the individual Covenant choice and, instead, have Soulbinds be the source of character progression tied with your Covenant with the idea that there would be plenty of Soulbinds to choose from. Instead, it looks like there are no real choices within each Covenant is like 1 for DPS, 1 for damage reduction, and 1 for utility which just exacerbates the issue entirely... You not only have ONE ability to choose from but you also basically only have one Soulbind within each Covenant to choose from.

It's more than just three choices.

You have first the covenant choice itself.

Then you have the soulbind choice.

In there you have a talent tree where you have to choose paths.

And then you have the conduits to socket into that tree as well.

edit: And a lot of the soulbind talents are tied to the covenant ability, so there is no detaching one from the other.

[Fantazma]

Why not detach soulbinds from covenants? If you detach it

1) WE Get to have MORE CHOICES to choose from , we would choose 1 out of 12 and not 1 out of 3...
Now you say : min-max will tell you choose This one... but min-max will also tell which of the 3 i should choose

So why limit our choices to 3 when there is 12 ? Choosing out of 12 is a "meaningful" choice , choosing out of 3 is limiting my choice

Solution:
Don't choose the Covenant, choose the soulbind.
My main-char is a rogue. I believe that the Covenat that does not match Rogues at all is the Kyrian. But if the best soulbind for my rogue is a Kyrian soulbind .... this is the one I will choose ...!
As you can see, the human being is destined to merge his soul with the devil who has the best proposal.

[Hctaz]

It's more than just three choices.

You have first the covenant choice itself.

Then you have the soulbind choice.

In there you have a talent tree where you have to choose paths.

And then you have the conduits to socket into that tree as well.

edit: And a lot of the soulbind talents are tied to the covenant ability, so there is no detaching one from the other.

It's like three soulbind choices per Covenant choice so... no. It's only three choices. My point being that the choice of "what Covenant do I pick?" isn't a "choice" that should matter. Covenant choices should matter based on aesthetic reasons only. Choosing a Covenant because it gives you the best ability is trash tier when that choice is also tied to the story progression and aesthetic options your character has access to. That's why I was wishing they went with Soulbinds giving you plenty of choices to balance out your Covenant pick instead of having the majority of the power come from the ability itself.

Singleplayer RPGs (whether or not they include elements of multiplayer) such as Dark Souls or Skyrim have, for whatever reason, a different feel than MMOs. Maybe it's because going through a 40 hour story on one character leaves you less attached to that specific character than when you spend thousand of hours playing on one character, but people tend to be very attached to their main in MMOs. A game like Dark Souls offers NG+ so you can eventually get every option on your main, and you can always make a new character which is essentially just an extension of your "main" to suit a different purpose. It doesn't really work that way in WoW and so having to choose a Covenant based on the power it can give you instead of aesthetic choices and storyline options is just a bad idea.

[idnn]

Nothing about what youve said is even remotely accurate. There is tons of evidence that TBC saw absolute sub growth in total. TBC doubled the sub count of Vanilla. Vanilla had around 4-5 million. TBC had 10 million. Subs did not start dropping until mid-Wrath when WoW was at its peak of 12 million subs.

I think you are confusing WoD with TBC.

are you serious man ? is sarcasm so hard to get these days ?

[Omedon]

mandatory to play all covenants, to get all pets/mounts.

You should have alts by now. Like, WoW is absolutely within their rights to design shadowlands expecting 4 characters per player. They clearly streamlined and expedited leveling in part for this reason.

Also:

ShaLa

Mega-cringe.