Would Sylvanas have beaten Arthas as easily?

[Zyky]

HoR was such one-side battle for Arthas is pure nonsense to bring it up as an argument for Sylvannas

If it was one-sided she would be dead, she isn't dead. She contested with him, as I said, although it was a losing battle, she stayed alive a significantly long time, while adventurers were busy fighting the shades of the past. Saying that her ability to stand toe to toe with Arthas prior her gaining significant power isn't relevant is like saying oxygen isn't real.

[kaelix1]

If it was one-sided she would be dead, she isn't dead. She contested with him, as I said, although it was a losing battle, she stayed alive a significantly long time, while adventurers were busy fighting the shades of the past. Saying that her ability to stand toe to toe with Arthas prior her gaining significant power isn't relevant is like saying oxygen isn't real.

The only reason she didn't die was plot wise, stop twisting the narrative like she did something just because she manages to run away, SHE LITERALLY had no chance power wise and got away because Arthas cocky nature, I sincerely don't see how exactly you reach that conclusion that she contested him, the power difference between them was enormous at that time BUT I give you this, she was great at running

[Zyky]

The only reason she didn't die was plot wise, stop twisting the narrative like she did something just because she manages to run away, SHE LITERALLY had no chance power wise and got away because Arthas cocky nature, I sincerely don't see how exactly you reach that conclusion that she contested him, the power difference between them was enormous at that time BUT I give you this, she was great at running

Got it you refuse to look at the proof right before your eyes. You're one of those people.

[kaelix1]

Got it you refuse to look at the proof right before your eyes. You're one of those people.

WHAT PROOF bud, I'm sincere here, she said she doesn't have a change, Arthas overwhelmed her, all she did was run and manage to escape by 'divine aka plot intervention', so please, again, I'm sincerely curious, what arguments you have to defend your position except 'she manage to escape' so by that logic she contested him

[Zyky]

WHAT PROOF bud, I'm sincere here, she said she doesn't have a change, Arthas overwhelmed her, all she did was run and manage to escape by 'divine aka plot intervention', so please, again, I'm sincerely curious, what arguments you have to defend your position except 'she manage to escape' so by that logic she contested him

I already explained it three times, if you lack the ability to read, that isn't my problem.

[darkoms]

Still you tried to sell it of as arcane originally and if you trully cared about magical forces you would watch alpha gameplay.

Read the first sentence as an answer to your first sentence as in 25 people are heroes are then stronger than 3 keepers at the peak of their power and elemental planets kept elemental lords far better sealed away than what loken and mimiron did to old gods.

Destroyed again doesn't mean killed go find english english dictionaru destroyed isn't a synonym to killed.

I can as at it was mentioned that pillars of creations and not only eye of aman'thul was used to create the seals tidestones at that point was destroyed, hammer of khaz'goroth was in deathwings lair and aegis of aggramar was with odyn meaning only other pillar besides eye of aman'thul that could have being used are tears of elune and it has nature energies inside it and they specifically said pillars of creation meaning more than one and the seals didn't diminish pillars powers meaning it was an insignifcant part of the seals powers and even that killed a demon if they tried to touch it.

Archimonde didn't expect the three to blow up meaning he couldn't protect against so all those are perfect comparisons and mannoroth still managed to put his guards up meaning. I'm not saying anything until we get a proper explanation like from blizz like you demanded on my theories we can't just dismish you theories and leave it alone until blizzard gives an explanation. He showed himself later on to fight against Jarod shadowsong so why are lying to me? and their foremest duty was to protect azeroth and archimonde aiming to claim second well of eternity for the legion wasn't on their importance list and why did you say "after destruction of dragon soul, they got used to the fact after 10 thousands years strength and their duties returned to them"? thats pretty fast.

Shadowlands is right next air element in cosmology map much closer to air than decay or death. Then explain why is the place right next to element of air and opposite emerald dream and tied similiarly to azeroth that emerald dream is in cosmology map? you haven't explained this.

again vile isn't synonym to evil and vile isn't synonym to bad either meaning were does term evil come here again?

unused quotes aren't canon in any way as they were maybe planned but never used. They were atleast present in the room again archimonde or KJ while Alex personally only arrived after fall of malygos and help could be just sending a few drakes as in battle sending reinforcements are considered helping too.

Who did it contradict in cinematic mannoroth was clearly suprissed grom was charging at him so it doesn't contradict.

That just your oppinion on that again. Laura is a finnish name I really don't think you can teach it to me.

again seeing how many time you get banned here I find it hard to believe you don't troll me with my dyslexia as during this debate if I looked enough times you got it two times? as otherwise your manners are fine and neither is english my native language its my third language

I think there is only one blood magic as well as there is only one Fel or one Arcane.

No, this shows a plot hole, because 10-25 players in Cataclysm can Al'Akir, but in Pandaria it also takes 10-25 players to defeat the weakened and exhausted Ra, but during the war of the titans and the old gods it took 3 Keepers in full force (including Ra) to defeat Al'Akir.

Again. AFTER DEATH, demons go to the Twisting Nether. It's just that a demon's soul goes to the Twisting Nether (like a mortal's soul goes to the Shadowlands).

Again. There is no titanic magic. There are forces of cosmology that the titans use and endow their artifacts with their enormous power. In-game characters can say any nonsense. The Orcs called the Light Draenei's magic because they didn't know what Light was. Lasso = arcana, sorry, as I said, I use a translator.

I have told you this several times.

The Arbiter, which seems to have been created by the true gods of Warcraft (the First One), sends only the most corrupted and dangerous souls to the Maw. Ventrirs send souls into the Maw that cannot redeem themselves. Even the cosmic entity considered Sylvanas evil.

These are the limitations of game mechanics.

Can you explain to me why the Shadowlands are connected with the entire multiverse and are ruled by beings at the level of the Titans (this was said in an interview), and the Emerald Dream is connected only with Azeroth and is ruled by one Aspect?

Really. Mannoroth did not run. He just walked. What a huge difference!

I just no longer try to make my messages more understandable for you because you are not doing it for me. You have no idea how hard it is for me to read what you write.

Yep

[MrLachyG]

i think yes. the reason why is quite simple: the Jailer funnelled power to Sylvanas, giving her enough to overpower Bolvar easily. if she was up against Arthas, who was arguably more powerful, then the Jailer would've recognised that and simply given her more power, enough to defeat him.

[Terongor]

I think there is only one blood magic as well as there is only one Fel or one Arcane.

No, this shows a plot hole, because 10-25 players in Cataclysm can Al'Akir, but in Pandaria it also takes 10-25 players to defeat the weakened and exhausted Ra, but during the war of the titans and the old gods it took 3 Keepers in full force (including Ra) to defeat Al'Akir.

Again. AFTER DEATH, demons go to the Twisting Nether. It's just that a demon's soul goes to the Twisting Nether (like a mortal's soul goes to the Shadowlands).

Again. There is no titanic magic. There are forces of cosmology that the titans use and endow their artifacts with their enormous power. In-game characters can say any nonsense. The Orcs called the Light Draenei's magic because they didn't know what Light was. Lasso = arcana, sorry, as I said, I use a translator.

I have told you this several times.

The Arbiter, which seems to have been created by the true gods of Warcraft (the First One), sends only the most corrupted and dangerous souls to the Maw. Ventrirs send souls into the Maw that cannot redeem themselves. Even the cosmic entity considered Sylvanas evil.

These are the limitations of game mechanics.

Can you explain to me why the Shadowlands are connected with the entire multiverse and are ruled by beings at the level of the Titans (this was said in an interview), and the Emerald Dream is connected only with Azeroth and is ruled by one Aspect?

Really. Mannoroth did not run. He just walked. What a huge difference!

I just no longer try to make my messages more understandable for you because you are not doing it for me. You have no idea how hard it is for me to read what you write.

Yep

If there is can you prove it? show how its supported thats there is only one?

Lorewise you can't about the number that much.. it could be that beating al'akir needed 25 while ra-den needed only 10 its a huge differance as we later on see.

Except mortal souls can't come back from shadowlands nor do they regenerate there.

Titanic magic is term used for magic which originates from titans like and orcs didn't call only light draenai magic they called all magic draenais used draenai magic as there were high arakoans using light magic in draenor too and okay.

You haven't... yoy never explained with anything to back you up.

We have no indications of first ones in any other place besides shadowlands so thats you headcanon secondly can you prove that arbiter were created by them? Corrupt and dangerous again doesn't mean evil they aren't synonyms nor are they tied to evil in any way. Redeemed only means that souls which can't do enough good to balance the bad stuff they do and doing bad stuff doesn't always make you a bad person.

Before that there were similiar things happening in wow boss battles so its not a limitation.

I ask the question first here to bring up weakeness in your theory while I offered none on this and then expect me make a theory while we don't have enough knowledge.

He took few steppes to change the position of his body so he could take defensive position.

I atleast use english words here you are bringing up words I have no way of understanding.

hmm facinating.

[darkoms]

If there is can you prove it? show how its supported thats there is only one?

Lorewise you can't about the number that much.. it could be that beating al'akir needed 25 while ra-den needed only 10 its a huge differance as we later on see.

Except mortal souls can't come back from shadowlands nor do they regenerate there.

Titanic magic is term used for magic which originates from titans like and orcs didn't call only light draenai magic they called all magic draenais used draenai magic as there were high arakoans using light magic in draenor too and okay.

You haven't... yoy never explained with anything to back you up.

We have no indications of first ones in any other place besides shadowlands so thats you headcanon secondly can you prove that arbiter were created by them? Corrupt and dangerous again doesn't mean evil they aren't synonyms nor are they tied to evil in any way. Redeemed only means that souls which can't do enough good to balance the bad stuff they do and doing bad stuff doesn't always make you a bad person.

Before that there were similiar things happening in wow boss battles so its not a limitation.

I ask the question first here to bring up weakeness in your theory while I offered none on this and then expect me make a theory while we don't have enough knowledge.

He took few steppes to change the position of his body so he could take defensive position.

I atleast use english words here you are bringing up words I have no way of understanding.

hmm facinating.

Can you point out that this is not the case? Because I do not yet know examples of different types of the same magic. Different types of nature or fel.

You forget that it was Ra not in full strength (the Keepers lost most of their powers after the ordering of Azeroth and Tyr at the moment battle against C'thraxxi had only a shadow of his former strength (Chronicle 3)) and was imprisoned for thousands of years. At the same time, the heroes in Pandaria are stronger than the heroes in Cataclysm (heroes become stronger not only with each add-on, but also with each patch (Chronicle 3)). Considering all these facts, Ra was so weak compared to his original form (and even in his original form, he could not defeat Al'Akir himself and he needed the help of TWO more Keepers) that 5 heroes would be enough to defeat him or even less (for example, defeating him in a quest). But as we see it requires a whole raid, as well as Al'Akir. This is a plot hole and you have to admit it.

Mortal souls find new life there. In fact, they can be ripped out of the Shadowlands using necromancy. In the same way, demons cannot simply appear on the planet after their rebirth. Warlocks / mages / anyone should open a portal for them or simply summon them.

That's it. The opinions of the characters inside the game don't mean anything because, you know, they don't have a Chronicle with a cosmological map.

I said several times that Archimonde was just playing with Jarod, but he wanted to kill Malorne because ordinary demons could not do it.

I will remind you of this controversy when it turns out that the First Ones created the Arbiter (at least we already know that they created Oribos, right?). Doing bad things SOMETIMES and for a GOOD PURPOSE may mean that you are not a bad person. What is Sylvanas doing? Definitely evil. Even during the life of her soldiers, she considered just arrows in a quiver that could be spent.

For example? As you may have noticed, Kalec and the Blue Dragons do not damage Kil'jaeden, but their orbs can be used.

No, it is you who claim that the Shadowlands and the Emerald Dream are equivalent, although we do know that the Emerald Dream is associated with only one planet unlike the Shadowlands and that it is either created by the First Ones or ordered by them. And ruled by the Pantheon of Death, equal in strength to the Titans. The Emerald Dream is either just a Titan dream, which is either ordered by ONE Titanic Guardian and ruled by ONE Aspect. Explain this to me and we will discuss it further.

He just walks at Grommash and brandishes his blade.

It’s not easier for me what words you use, because because of the random arrangement of commas and dots and the generally incomprehensible construction of the sentence, it’s very difficult for me to understand what you mean.

I assure you, no ban will stop me from arguing with you. I appreciate your persistence, but your arguments just don't work.

[Terongor]

Can you point out that this is not the case? Because I do not yet know examples of different types of the same magic. Different types of nature or fel.

You forget that it was Ra not in full strength (the Keepers lost most of their powers after the ordering of Azeroth and Tyr at the moment battle against C'thraxxi had only a shadow of his former strength (Chronicle 3)) and was imprisoned for thousands of years. At the same time, the heroes in Pandaria are stronger than the heroes in Cataclysm (heroes become stronger not only with each add-on, but also with each patch (Chronicle 3)). Considering all these facts, Ra was so weak compared to his original form (and even in his original form, he could not defeat Al'Akir himself and he needed the help of TWO more Keepers) that 5 heroes would be enough to defeat him or even less (for example, defeating him in a quest). But as we see it requires a whole raid, as well as Al'Akir. This is a plot hole and you have to admit it.

Mortal souls find new life there. In fact, they can be ripped out of the Shadowlands using necromancy. In the same way, demons cannot simply appear on the planet after their rebirth. Warlocks / mages / anyone should open a portal for them or simply summon them.

That's it. The opinions of the characters inside the game don't mean anything because, you know, they don't have a Chronicle with a cosmological map.

I said several times that Archimonde was just playing with Jarod, but he wanted to kill Malorne because ordinary demons could not do it.

I will remind you of this controversy when it turns out that the First Ones created the Arbiter (at least we already know that they created Oribos, right?). Doing bad things SOMETIMES and for a GOOD PURPOSE may mean that you are not a bad person. What is Sylvanas doing? Definitely evil. Even during the life of her soldiers, she considered just arrows in a quiver that could be spent.

For example? As you may have noticed, Kalec and the Blue Dragons do not damage Kil'jaeden, but their orbs can be used.

No, it is you who claim that the Shadowlands and the Emerald Dream are equivalent, although we do know that the Emerald Dream is associated with only one planet unlike the Shadowlands and that it is either created by the First Ones or ordered by them. And ruled by the Pantheon of Death, equal in strength to the Titans. The Emerald Dream is either just a Titan dream, which is either ordered by ONE Titanic Guardian and ruled by ONE Aspect. Explain this to me and we will discuss it further.

He just walks at Grommash and brandishes his blade.

It’s not easier for me what words you use, because because of the random arrangement of commas and dots and the generally incomprehensible construction of the sentence, it’s very difficult for me to understand what you mean.

I assure you, no ban will stop me from arguing with you. I appreciate your persistence, but your arguments just don't work.

For example we have necrolytes from warcraft 1 and chronicles from orcs who use fel magic to create undeads though at one point its said they used void magic and shadowmoon clan used void in AU draenor and had tons on undeads. Also we have a tcg card Timewalker Necrolyte Drom'kor named and his class is defined as a warlock and in tcg none hero cards have had classes not used by wow playable classes.

Not always as saying lorewise WE NEEDED the whole raids as lorewise we really can't say we needed the full raids to beat the stone guards in mogu'shan vaults just that they were there.

Not always some mortal souls go to the maw and we double dead in shadowlands. We have dreadlords who in the past have shown ability easily appear back on mortal planes by themselves and by your logic mage/warlocks should be able to summon souls from shadowlands or create a portal there.

While you are inveting that blood magic is its own kind of magic which there is only of one. Titanic magic only means its powerful magic which originates from the titans which its not its own type it descripes its origin.

but before that you said archimonde showed only once in the frontlines to kill malorne which you are saying now that you said wrong?

Sure remind me I like talking with you. (Yeah We know that for sure.) but for whos POV for good reason? from wotlk standpoint sylvanas had given her life to protect quel'thalas and had done everything in her power defeat Lich King those were her mains points of her life at that point her "good" aims should have outweighed her "means to the end" meaning it was most likely just who corrupted souls hers was.

Blizzard never used them to damage the boss, archimonde in wod khadgat, yrel and grommash don't damage archimonde, Illidan fight Maiev doesn't damage illidan. They just appeared attacking but did actually no damage which is the way blizzard could have done with alexstrasza if she actually was in the fight flying around the corner spitting fire on malygos which actually did no damage.

and I said it was wrong but then I asked you why in chronicles cosmological map shadowlands and emerald dream is tied to reality the same way and it mirroring places.

taking around to change you positions as defensive positions in somefighting style demand that as in someweapon its much more effective.

That what makes this dyslexia extremely annoying as it makes very hard to place them properly and english being my third language doesn't help.

[darkoms]

For example we have necrolytes from warcraft 1 and chronicles from orcs who use fel magic to create undeads though at one point its said they used void magic and shadowmoon clan used void in AU draenor and had tons on undeads. Also we have a tcg card Timewalker Necrolyte Drom'kor named and his class is defined as a warlock and in tcg none hero cards have had classes not used by wow playable classes.

Not always as saying lorewise WE NEEDED the whole raids as lorewise we really can't say we needed the full raids to beat the stone guards in mogu'shan vaults just that they were there.

Not always some mortal souls go to the maw and we double dead in shadowlands. We have dreadlords who in the past have shown ability easily appear back on mortal planes by themselves and by your logic mage/warlocks should be able to summon souls from shadowlands or create a portal there.

While you are inveting that blood magic is its own kind of magic which there is only of one. Titanic magic only means its powerful magic which originates from the titans which its not its own type it descripes its origin.

but before that you said archimonde showed only once in the frontlines to kill malorne which you are saying now that you said wrong?

Sure remind me I like talking with you. (Yeah We know that for sure.) but for whos POV for good reason? from wotlk standpoint sylvanas had given her life to protect quel'thalas and had done everything in her power defeat Lich King those were her mains points of her life at that point her "good" aims should have outweighed her "means to the end" meaning it was most likely just who corrupted souls hers was.

Blizzard never used them to damage the boss, archimonde in wod khadgat, yrel and grommash don't damage archimonde, Illidan fight Maiev doesn't damage illidan. They just appeared attacking but did actually no damage which is the way blizzard could have done with alexstrasza if she actually was in the fight flying around the corner spitting fire on malygos which actually did no damage.

and I said it was wrong but then I asked you why in chronicles cosmological map shadowlands and emerald dream is tied to reality the same way and it mirroring places.

taking around to change you positions as defensive positions in somefighting style demand that as in someweapon its much more effective.

That what makes this dyslexia extremely annoying as it makes very hard to place them properly and english being my third language doesn't help.

Even Light and Life can raise undead so I don’t understand your argument here. What? What are you talking about?

What? How does this contradict what I said?

Yes, there under torture they break and become the servants of the Jailer as far as I know. What kind of terror came back on their own? Do we know EXACTLY that they returned on their own, and were not called? How can a mage rip a soul out of the shadow lands or create a portal there, lol?

Blood magic is part of Life (as stated on Twitter, but there the Blizzard representative himself did not fully understand what he was talking about) or part of Death, as can be seen from the blood magic in Revendreth. That's it. There is no titanic magic. Your whole argument was that Archimonde died because demons are especially vulnerable to titanic magic, and now you finally admit that such magic does not exist and that this is ordinary magic. You have lost the argument.

Are you kidding me? During his battle with Jarod, the Aspects were too busy, you know, with Sargeras almost arriving. And you never answered me why Archimonde himself did not kill them, if he is so strong.

Sylvanas did not give her life to protect Celthalas, in fact she had the opportunity to kill Arthas from the very beginning, she ambushed him, but changed her mind because she believed that no one would sing songs of praise in her honor. She did not protect Celtalas. And she died, for example, not saving the last survivors, but just like a fool jumping right up to Arthas and getting a sword in the stomach. She did everything in her power for Revenge, not just because she thought Arthas was so bad. It was not out of altruism, but out of selfishness.

I think it would be extremely strange if Alexstrasza, who is equal in strength to Malygos (but most likely inferior to him in the Nexus), did not inflict any damage on him.

Because we have no other known dimension of Life. Perhaps it does not exist at all. And specifically for Azeroth (which is presented there as reality), these two dimensions are possibly equivalent. Now you can answer my questions.

He did not change his position and did not take up defensive positions, he just started going at Grommash and swinging his blade.

Okay...

[Lillyth]

Absolutely. Bolvar was the Lich King for longer than Arthas was, there was nothing innately special about Arthas and there is no reason to presume that Bolvar would be less capable as the Lich King than Arthas was.

The entire point of Sylvanas being able to defeat the Lich King in one on one combat was to demonstrate just how powerful she has become since she joined 'the maw covenant' and to establish her as a threat even greater than Arthas was...and by implication, make us realise just what a threat the Jailer is if HE is stronger than her.

Difference between Arthas Menethin and Bolvar Fordragon

Arthas has:
Been trained through war with the Naztherim to use his undead powers.
Frostmourne.
Fully intact helm of domination with Ner'zhul's soul in it.
Death Knight powers after abandoning the Light.
Countless souls absorbed and empowered Frostmourne.
Undead under his control across all of Azeroth.

Bolvar has:
Paladin that died in a war.
Scourge infected body that was cleansed with fire.
A hammer of unknown power that glows red and blue.
1000-ish undead under his control in Ice Crown Citadel?

Yeah, I am pretty sure Arthas is more powerful.

[Krothar]

Arthas might have put up a bit more of a fight, but the whole point is to show how far Slyvanas has come to achieve whatever her goal is.

That fight wouldn't have happened until Slyvanas knew she had the power to overcome whichever Lich King she faced.

The cinematic was never meant to show Bolvar as weak but to show Slyvanas as strong. Dunno why so many people look at it and go "Bolvar is weak brrrrrr"

[Terongor]

Even Light and Life can raise undead so I don’t understand your argument here. What? What are you talking about?

What? How does this contradict what I said?

Yes, there under torture they break and become the servants of the Jailer as far as I know. What kind of terror came back on their own? Do we know EXACTLY that they returned on their own, and were not called? How can a mage rip a soul out of the shadow lands or create a portal there, lol?

Blood magic is part of Life (as stated on Twitter, but there the Blizzard representative himself did not fully understand what he was talking about) or part of Death, as can be seen from the blood magic in Revendreth. That's it. There is no titanic magic. Your whole argument was that Archimonde died because demons are especially vulnerable to titanic magic, and now you finally admit that such magic does not exist and that this is ordinary magic. You have lost the argument.

Are you kidding me? During his battle with Jarod, the Aspects were too busy, you know, with Sargeras almost arriving. And you never answered me why Archimonde himself did not kill them, if he is so strong.

Sylvanas did not give her life to protect Celthalas, in fact she had the opportunity to kill Arthas from the very beginning, she ambushed him, but changed her mind because she believed that no one would sing songs of praise in her honor. She did not protect Celtalas. And she died, for example, not saving the last survivors, but just like a fool jumping right up to Arthas and getting a sword in the stomach. She did everything in her power for Revenge, not just because she thought Arthas was so bad. It was not out of altruism, but out of selfishness.

I think it would be extremely strange if Alexstrasza, who is equal in strength to Malygos (but most likely inferior to him in the Nexus), did not inflict any damage on him.

Because we have no other known dimension of Life. Perhaps it does not exist at all. And specifically for Azeroth (which is presented there as reality), these two dimensions are possibly equivalent. Now you can answer my questions.

He did not change his position and did not take up defensive positions, he just started going at Grommash and swinging his blade.

Okay...

As you said Before "Because I do not yet know examples of different types of the same magic. Different types of nature or fel."

We can't lorewise say if we needed the whole taida group there lorewise.

What I looked from beta haven't yet seen that they do become jailors servants can you show a thing which proves this? How dreadlords were "sent after lich king" to keep him guarded, the dreadlords who summoned avatar of sargeras in northrend and how they stole plate of the damned from the maw would heavily imply they came by their own power. You said shadowlands was equavalent to twisting nether by that logic mages or warlocks should be able to the same thing

You in last comment implied you compared blood magic ti fel or nature which is inveting part. Explain why does nearly all character descripe titanic artifacts that they are primming with titan power without knowing better? Or why does weak seals in tomb of sargeras kill demons who try to touch them.

You said Before Archimonde showed up in frontlines once during the whole war when I brought up that you are ignoring your earlier comment. I already did.

Doing good things for wrong reason doesn't take away from doing good things. Celthalas? She thought she had again her own thoughts which aren't infalible and her sacrifice still was biggest contribution why even so many elves survived.

You do realise DW doesn't lose any HP when thralls shoots dragon soul at him? In wow those npc who "help" in raid fight usually Don't do any damage.... heck I yesterday let tirion hit arthas when he was floating around for 5 minutes and arthas didn't lose any HP.

Still don't explain why they gave same kind of connection to reality that shadowlands had and cosmological map showed only something similiar to azeroth can you say in wc universe with 100% prove there isn't any similiar looking continents as shown on the map? Cosmology map placed them on same opposite place, gave them a similiar ring to connect them to reality and made them same size that has to be intentional. Also we have far too less info on nature of shadowlands.

He place he left foot forward and moved his right foot little bit which looks that placing little further into behind in some fighting styles with weapons this is a common defensive position when you know you are getting a hard hit and trying minimise the impact power.

[Feanoro]

This thread again? The answer was already given, she could beat anyone so long as Danuser gives her ass pull powers to do so.

[Kaver]

We still don’t really know how “pumped up on death steroids” Sylvanas really is.

[darkoms]

As you said Before "Because I do not yet know examples of different types of the same magic. Different types of nature or fel."

We can't lorewise say if we needed the whole taida group there lorewise.

What I looked from beta haven't yet seen that they do become jailors servants can you show a thing which proves this? How dreadlords were "sent after lich king" to keep him guarded, the dreadlords who summoned avatar of sargeras in northrend and how they stole plate of the damned from the maw would heavily imply they came by their own power. You said shadowlands was equavalent to twisting nether by that logic mages or warlocks should be able to the same thing

You in last comment implied you compared blood magic ti fel or nature which is inveting part. Explain why does nearly all character descripe titanic artifacts that they are primming with titan power without knowing better? Or why does weak seals in tomb of sargeras kill demons who try to touch them.

You said Before Archimonde showed up in frontlines once during the whole war when I brought up that you are ignoring your earlier comment. I already did.

Doing good things for wrong reason doesn't take away from doing good things. Celthalas? She thought she had again her own thoughts which aren't infalible and her sacrifice still was biggest contribution why even so many elves survived.

You do realise DW doesn't lose any HP when thralls shoots dragon soul at him? In wow those npc who "help" in raid fight usually Don't do any damage.... heck I yesterday let tirion hit arthas when he was floating around for 5 minutes and arthas didn't lose any HP.

Still don't explain why they gave same kind of connection to reality that shadowlands had and cosmological map showed only something similiar to azeroth can you say in wc universe with 100% prove there isn't any similiar looking continents as shown on the map? Cosmology map placed them on same opposite place, gave them a similiar ring to connect them to reality and made them same size that has to be intentional. Also we have far too less info on nature of shadowlands.

He place he left foot forward and moved his right foot little bit which looks that placing little further into behind in some fighting styles with weapons this is a common defensive position when you know you are getting a hard hit and trying minimise the impact power.

So you haven't given me different types of the same magic. You gave an example of how different magic can raise undead. I already knew that.

In BC, Kael was the boss of the raid. Then he got stronger, but the heroes also got stronger (Chronicle 3) And so he was just the boss of the dungeon. Here, in both cases, the bosses of the raid, but at the same time Ra should be MUCH MUCH MUCH weaker than Alakir, because even at the peak of his powers he needed the help of two more Keepers to win.

I don't remember where I saw it. I'll give you a link if I find it. The Dreadlords were SENT for the Lich King, where is the word that they appeared there on their own? The Legion was able to throw the Frozen Throne into Northrend, where did you get the idea that it couldn't also throw the Nathrezim? I did not say that they are equal. Give me an example of at least one mage or warlock who opened the Shadowlands into the portal.

So what? What are all the characters? And again, do the characters have a cosmological map and a Chronicle? Because, apparently, they are aiming at this. Aegwynn was able to seal the Tomb so that no Azerothian or demon could enter it. That's why GulDan was able to open it, wasn't it? Because he is a resident of another world. So what stopped the servants of the Titans from sealing the Tomb and imposing seals against demons? And by the way, could you give me a quote on how demons die from these seals? I can't remember this.

Archimonde increased in size and actually appeared ON THE BATTLE FIELD during the battle with Malorne. In Jarod's case, if I remember correctly, Archimonde cut Jarod and those with him from everyone else. Not even sure if the Aspects saw him at that moment. No, you didn't answer. When I asked you why Archimonde did not kill the Aspects, you did not give any answer and only asked why the Aspects did not kill Archimonde. You moved the arrow and dodged the answer. It's disgusting. If you have no arguments, say so, and do not try to ask your opponent questions without giving answers. It looks like
-God exists
-Prove
-Prove that he is not!

What good deeds? This is her responsibility and her job, this is not altruism. And in this work, she treated her subordinates like arrows and did not care about their lives. What is her SACRIFICE? She just jumped belly onto the sword. She did not change the situation in any way, her death did not help save someone, on the contrary, her country lost a general, and Arthas received a powerful banshee.

He shoots him in the cut-scene, and then right at the very end of the raid, when the loss of HP doesn't mean anything anymore, does it? Because the raid is already over, you have won, Arthas is no longer fighting. And as I said, it's not about the damage. In the battle with KilJaeden, Velen, Illidan and Khadgar do not participate at all in the battle with him (Illidan only gives sight in one of the phases), but by lore it was with their help that the heroes defeated KilJaeden. Or, according to your logic, did they defeat him themselves? Didn't these three help?

I repeat my answer, since you did not understand the first time. Because we have no other known dimension of Life. Perhaps it does not exist at all. And specifically for Azeroth (which is presented there as reality), these two dimensions are possibly equivalent. Now you can answer my questions. I'll even write twice. Now you can answer my questions. Now you can answer my questions.
But of course you will not answer my questions. Because you have no idea how to answer them, you have no arguments at all, you do not know why the Emerald Dream is associated with only one planet and why there are no creatures of the Titan level, any Pantheon of Life. And you don't want to admit it. Although I still don't know what we're arguing about. Your whole argument is that Archimonde died because Nordrassil is associated with the Emerald Dream and there was the power of Ysera and there is so much power in the Emerald Dream (because it is analogous to the Shadowlands) that Archimonde died. What's the point? By your logic, the Lich King who is associated with the Shadowlands can easily kill Archimonde simply because he is connected to the Shadowlands? Archimonde was killed by the power of the Aspects simply because it is a tremendous power, not because one of the Aspects is associated with the Emerald Dream. By your logic, Archimonde (who is associated with the Twisting Nether) should kill Aspects with a snap of his fingers.

No, watch the video. He goes to attack Grommash and brandishes his blade. He just goes slower than Grommash runs.

[Stormwolf64]

As long as their blizzard males likes to get their balls grinded by their female emplyees and as long as the female employees like to grind the balls of the male employees the answer to to this is yes. Definitely yes.

Infracted.

[Terongor]

So you haven't given me different types of the same magic. You gave an example of how different magic can raise undead. I already knew that.

In BC, Kael was the boss of the raid. Then he got stronger, but the heroes also got stronger (Chronicle 3) And so he was just the boss of the dungeon. Here, in both cases, the bosses of the raid, but at the same time Ra should be MUCH MUCH MUCH weaker than Alakir, because even at the peak of his powers he needed the help of two more Keepers to win.

I don't remember where I saw it. I'll give you a link if I find it. The Dreadlords were SENT for the Lich King, where is the word that they appeared there on their own? The Legion was able to throw the Frozen Throne into Northrend, where did you get the idea that it couldn't also throw the Nathrezim? I did not say that they are equal. Give me an example of at least one mage or warlock who opened the Shadowlands into the portal.

So what? What are all the characters? And again, do the characters have a cosmological map and a Chronicle? Because, apparently, they are aiming at this. Aegwynn was able to seal the Tomb so that no Azerothian or demon could enter it. That's why GulDan was able to open it, wasn't it? Because he is a resident of another world. So what stopped the servants of the Titans from sealing the Tomb and imposing seals against demons? And by the way, could you give me a quote on how demons die from these seals? I can't remember this.

Archimonde increased in size and actually appeared ON THE BATTLE FIELD during the battle with Malorne. In Jarod's case, if I remember correctly, Archimonde cut Jarod and those with him from everyone else. Not even sure if the Aspects saw him at that moment. No, you didn't answer. When I asked you why Archimonde did not kill the Aspects, you did not give any answer and only asked why the Aspects did not kill Archimonde. You moved the arrow and dodged the answer. It's disgusting. If you have no arguments, say so, and do not try to ask your opponent questions without giving answers. It looks like
-God exists
-Prove
-Prove that he is not!

What good deeds? This is her responsibility and her job, this is not altruism. And in this work, she treated her subordinates like arrows and did not care about their lives. What is her SACRIFICE? She just jumped belly onto the sword. She did not change the situation in any way, her death did not help save someone, on the contrary, her country lost a general, and Arthas received a powerful banshee.

He shoots him in the cut-scene, and then right at the very end of the raid, when the loss of HP doesn't mean anything anymore, does it? Because the raid is already over, you have won, Arthas is no longer fighting. And as I said, it's not about the damage. In the battle with KilJaeden, Velen, Illidan and Khadgar do not participate at all in the battle with him (Illidan only gives sight in one of the phases), but by lore it was with their help that the heroes defeated KilJaeden. Or, according to your logic, did they defeat him themselves? Didn't these three help?

I repeat my answer, since you did not understand the first time. Because we have no other known dimension of Life. Perhaps it does not exist at all. And specifically for Azeroth (which is presented there as reality), these two dimensions are possibly equivalent. Now you can answer my questions. I'll even write twice. Now you can answer my questions. Now you can answer my questions.
But of course you will not answer my questions. Because you have no idea how to answer them, you have no arguments at all, you do not know why the Emerald Dream is associated with only one planet and why there are no creatures of the Titan level, any Pantheon of Life. And you don't want to admit it. Although I still don't know what we're arguing about. Your whole argument is that Archimonde died because Nordrassil is associated with the Emerald Dream and there was the power of Ysera and there is so much power in the Emerald Dream (because it is analogous to the Shadowlands) that Archimonde died. What's the point? By your logic, the Lich King who is associated with the Shadowlands can easily kill Archimonde simply because he is connected to the Shadowlands? Archimonde was killed by the power of the Aspects simply because it is a tremendous power, not because one of the Aspects is associated with the Emerald Dream. By your logic, Archimonde (who is associated with the Twisting Nether) should kill Aspects with a snap of his fingers.

No, watch the video. He goes to attack Grommash and brandishes his blade. He just goes slower than Grommash runs.

There is differant types of necromancy light, void, death and fel atleast so differant types of same magic.

In were chronicles 3 does it say kael got stronger after tempest keep? and on al'akir so? whats your point?

I'll wait. We have no other demons being sent like that which shows they really can't be sent and dreadlord even infilrated the maw and stole plate of the damned and frostmourne which is desciped as in escapeable maw meaning they have a way to go and leave such places. You just compared shadowlands to twisting nether(if they are comperable in anyway they must be equal in someways)earlier so it would be by YOUR LOGIC they could.

Blood magic isn't on map either and people call some magic blood magic by your logic if its not on the cosmological map it doesn't exists.
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...9831833094.pdf transcipe of tomb of sargeras audio drama part 3
"The Legion could not touch the seals, but the demons had studied them. The wards' ancient designers had crafted them so they would kill whoever tried to break them, but Gul'dan knew exactly how to crack open all five seals safely"

So agree you lied at the start when you said archimonde only appeared one in front line? I did at the start I said pretty clearly that the power differance isn't that great overall but aspects were in the air it wouldn't have being easy.

Preventing all of helf population of silvermoon being wiped out as sylvanas forces slowed scourge advange enough and her death did help as he she just stopped and fled with her rangers all of silvermoon would have being wiped out.

and on any of those cases the raid boss didn't lose any hp and hp lose in raid fights done by lore figures to the boss isn't shown in anyway and lorewise yeah it was because of those people helping in raid fight we managed to beat them but none of them actually damaged the boss and if alexstrasza was actually fighting against malygos so would have she being like that too.

and I still say it again it still doesn't explain that at all as emerald dream is only connected to one plane of shadowlands and that being the only isn't enough reasonable explanation for them being equals but opposites in comslogical map. We don't know if its only associated with azeroth only it was never said it only associated with azeroth as even chronicles 1 give it two possible explanations. Also I originally said because being portal to shdowlands, well of eternity bellow, life force of the wisp and the enchanments on the nordrassail... why are you lying about what I did again?

I did... I have the video on dvd wc3 collectors edition I slowed it down to millisecond and you can clearly see mannoroth is only changing positions.

[darkoms]

There is differant types of necromancy light, void, death and fel atleast so differant types of same magic.

In were chronicles 3 does it say kael got stronger after tempest keep? and on al'akir so? whats your point?

I'll wait. We have no other demons being sent like that which shows they really can't be sent and dreadlord even infilrated the maw and stole plate of the damned and frostmourne which is desciped as in escapeable maw meaning they have a way to go and leave such places. You just compared shadowlands to twisting nether(if they are comperable in anyway they must be equal in someways)earlier so it would be by YOUR LOGIC they could.

Blood magic isn't on map either and people call some magic blood magic by your logic if its not on the cosmological map it doesn't exists.
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...9831833094.pdf transcipe of tomb of sargeras audio drama part 3
"The Legion could not touch the seals, but the demons had studied them. The wards' ancient designers had crafted them so they would kill whoever tried to break them, but Gul'dan knew exactly how to crack open all five seals safely"

So agree you lied at the start when you said archimonde only appeared one in front line? I did at the start I said pretty clearly that the power differance isn't that great overall but aspects were in the air it wouldn't have being easy.

Preventing all of helf population of silvermoon being wiped out as sylvanas forces slowed scourge advange enough and her death did help as he she just stopped and fled with her rangers all of silvermoon would have being wiped out.

and on any of those cases the raid boss didn't lose any hp and hp lose in raid fights done by lore figures to the boss isn't shown in anyway and lorewise yeah it was because of those people helping in raid fight we managed to beat them but none of them actually damaged the boss and if alexstrasza was actually fighting against malygos so would have she being like that too.

and I still say it again it still doesn't explain that at all as emerald dream is only connected to one plane of shadowlands and that being the only isn't enough reasonable explanation for them being equals but opposites in comslogical map. We don't know if its only associated with azeroth only it was never said it only associated with azeroth as even chronicles 1 give it two possible explanations. Also I originally said because being portal to shdowlands, well of eternity bellow, life force of the wisp and the enchanments on the nordrassail... why are you lying about what I did again?

I did... I have the video on dvd wc3 collectors edition I slowed it down to millisecond and you can clearly see mannoroth is only changing positions.

Because by necromancy in this case you mean simply raising corpses. But I'm telling you something else. We argue about different types of magic that belong to the same power. Here we have examples of DIFFERENT FORCES. Raising the dead by the Light is not the same necromancy as the power of Death. It's just that ALL FORCES are able to resurrect undead. Just like ALL FORCES can create portals.

Chronicle 3 says Kael grew stronger during his meeting at the Magisters Terrace. My point is that heroes get stronger WITH EVERY PATCH because Kael on Magisters Terrace is just a dungeon boss, although before that he was a raid boss and at the same time he became stronger. But the heroes also became stronger. And if the heroes become stronger with each patch, then a meeting with Ra in a raid (and not in a dungeon) is meaningless after meeting with Al'Akir, given that AlAkir is much stronger than Ra.

LOL what? The Nathrezim are the main servants of Kil'jaeden (as well as the pit lords are the main servants of Archimonde). They were, of course, sent to watch the Lich King. Not to mention, the demons did not want to draw attention to their affairs and the nathrezim are great for this. If you sent the pit lords led by Mannoroth to watch the Lich King, the whole world would soon know about it. I compared them in the sense that the souls of demons are tied to the Twisting Nether and go there AFTER DEATH, just as the souls of mortals go to the Shadow Lands.

So what? Chronomancy is also missing from the map. Cosmology has shown 6 main powers and types of magic that are associated with these powers. If they did not show all this does not mean that they are not there. But there is no titanic magic because it is not a separate power that can be used by everyone, but magic that is associated with only one type of creature - Titans. There is no magic in Warcraft that is tied to creatures. All magic exists in the entire universe and is available to everyone. Titan magic is simply a name for the very powerful amount of magic they use in their artifacts because titans, being divine beings, can use much more energy than mortals. AHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA ARE YOU SERIOUS? IS THIS YOUR ARGUMENT? THIS QUOTE? AHPHPHAVHPAVHPHAVPHAVHPHVPHAVHPHAVPHAVHPHAVPHAVH
Thanks you! Thanks for this quote! After all, it clearly and clearly states that the seal kills ANYONE and Gul'Dan knew how to open them SAFE. Seals ARE NOT ONLY ON DEMONS. Your whole argument boiled down to the fact that Archimonde died on Hyjal only because demons are especially vulnerable to titanic magic and that exactly the same magic killed demons in the Tomb, but now we see that this magic killed EVERYONE. Were you seriously hoping to use this as an argument? Honestly, you'd better just say you can't find this quote, it wouldn't look so funny.

Again. In Jarod's case, he cut him and those around him from the rest of the forces, and the Aspects were too busy trying to stop Sargeras from entering our world. I think that they either did not see him or they did not care at all about Archimonde at that moment. And you haven't answered my question. Why didn't Archimonde kill the Aspects as well as Malorne? Why didn't he skin them alive or something? Throughout the war, they were barely 1/4 of their full strength (because they gave most of their strength to the Dragon Soul), but he did not try to kill them. Stop ignoring this question. Stop asking counter questions about why they didn't kill him (after all, I asked you first, but we're only discussing your question). If you do not know how to answer this question, admit it, and do not pretend that I did not ask you anything.

LOL what? Arthas himself said several times that he decided to commit genocide of the elves only because Sylvanas infuriated him too much. If not for her, he would not have arranged the genocide of the elves. They slowed down the Scourge's advance, yes. Only now Sylvanas had a chance to kill him, but she did not want to do this because in that case there would be no songs of praise in her honor. And the fact that she jumped with her belly on the sword did NOT help. Seriously, have you watched this video at all? She just leaps at Arthas and he just stabs her with his sword. And I say it again. She treated her subordinates like arrows in a quiver and did not care about their lives. We're not arguing about her accomplishments and tactical prowess, but about her personality.

You forget that things were different in the days of Votlk and adding Alexstrasza, who would just shoot and had no real mechanics, would have caused unnecessary stress during the battle. Unlike Kalec and his blue dragons, who at least had orbs, Alexstrasza would simply not do anything. What could be done in Waters and the Legion could not be allowed in Votlk.

Aviana offers Arakkoa a place in the Emerald Dream, and Anzu was only able to access the Emerald Dream after opening the Dark Portal. So no, the Dream is not related to other planets like the Shadowlands. Forgive me if I misunderstood what exactly you meant, because as I said, it is very difficult for me to read what you write in your stream of consciousness with random commas, dots and repeated words about Yogg-Saron, portals to the Emerald Dream and the Shadow Lands, and so on, I almost did not understand anything, but it seemed to me that this is what you are trying to say that Archimonde died from - for the enormous energy of the Emerald Dream.

And I can clearly see that he is going to Grommash. But I don't know what we're arguing about if Chronicle 3 clearly states that Mannoroth was sure that Grommash wasn't attacking him at all and there was no point in either attacking or taking a defensive stance. As I said a million times, Grommash killed Mannoroth because of the element of surprise, and we should be based on the Chronicle, not the Warcraft 3 cutscene.