List other RPG games with irreversible Gameplay Customization like Covenants

[kappalol]

Im talking "mid-game" customization options.
You play for 10 hours, the game asks you to make a "gameplay customization" choice and if you want to try the other choices you need to create a new save file.

95% RPGs ever released

[Ange]

Diablo-2?

Even the most casual action RPG like Diablo 2 forced you to make irreversible game choices - and that was not some bait thread as yours but real irreversible in the basicly endless level progression where you could not just RESTART and CATCH UP in the ladder.

D2 stats + talents were fixed and it made your CHOICE so much more impactfull for basicly your whole gametime, even if you played 24/7 for many many months each ladder season.

The RPG VALUE was the limitation and it made your choice to the character so much more valuable, since it had consequences.

WoW had from time to time similar things, but not as final as in D2. Things like TBC Aldor/Scryers had similar things going on and I did the switch. I went fom scryers EXALTED -> Aldor EXALTED on my MAIN in the full 8+ weeks of 16h/day grinding SPIDERS. The impact of that choice alone made TBC one of the most memorable expansion I ever played.

[Biomega]

I'm not really sure why people are making blanket comparisons between anything and everything ever labeled "RPG", when the stakes and systems involved are VASTLY different.

If WoW was a pure single player game, nobody would care. But it isn't. It has a competitive segment with a significant number of players, and a lot of them play it primarily BECAUSE it has that competitive nature. I'm not talking pro-level MDI/RWF stuff, but competition in general. THAT is what's causing all the issues with Covenant balance and permanent choices.

If you want a comparison that's closer to that, say you were playing golf and someone told you that you would have to decide on two clubs you can use, and you couldn't use any others. You have a rough idea about what holes you are going to play, but things might change down the line and maybe they'll switch things around and let you play minigolf for a part of it, or maybe it'll be all super long distance, or all sand traps - you don't know. And then you're going up against other people in a competition. You could be a super skilled golfer, but if you happen to pick clubs that don't work well with the course you're currently on and the other guy happened to pick clubs that do, you'll be at a disadvantage through no fault of your own. And even if you HAD known everything about every course, you couldn't have picked two clubs that would be best for EVERY SINGLE hole, and someone who just happened to have a better selection on a given course - even if they're worse on others - would make you lose there. And it'd feel terrible because you're looking at it going, "I could do so much better if you just let me change clubs" and they're like "but isn't it cool to be Double Iron guy, I mean don't you enjoy playing golf because of how you identify with your clubs?". And when you complain, people just tell you "uh, have you thought about just enjoying the game maybe why do you CARE so much", or "well when I go jogging by myself I have to choose whatever shoes I'm wearing, too, and that's never bothered me so what's the big deal?".

That's basically how it feels as someone who's interested in WoW for its competitive aspects much more so than everything else. Which doesn't mean NOT being interest in those other aspects - just not as much.

You can't really argue that Covenants having deleterious effects on competitive play is okay because in KOTOR you had to choose a class in the middle of the game and look how everyone loved that. These games are just not played the same way, or for the same reasons.

[Nzx]

3 weeks of mild "chores" isn't a punishment. Especially when it's very likely to be more like 5 hours of actual gameplay.

Let me do 5 hours worth of actual gameplay then. It's pretty simple for me at this point: if Covenant switching remains locked, and if that lock contains any forced time-gating like dailies or "fill this bar once a week then come back next Tuesday", I will just quit the game. I think there are plenty of people who feel the same way - perhaps you LFR heroes will get your wish and all the big bad mythic raiding "elitists" will leave and you can have Classic 1 and Classic 2 all to yourselves.

[facefist]

Its almost like, you just make shit up and hope no one points out all the inconsistencies in your claims.....

The irony is real on this one considering your last claim about my activity in sub-forums. Panick much after being caught

[Kallisto]

I cant even post on MMO-C anymore without fear of speaking my mind. Jesus.

You can if you didn't use this place to sprout clear as day bullshit up here in the wow sections and down in the gen-ot/politics. If you stopped doing that people wouldn't call you out on it.

You're either stupid to the point you need serious help or you're a troll. Or both.

[Garymorilix]

I'm gonna write it down in the simplest way possible for you to understand:

Covenants are not designed to be switched around, the whole system is based on the fact that you pick ONE and that's it.
They allow for the option to switch if you are a petulant child and can't decide shit for yourself but as this is NOT something they want you to do it is heavily limited.

I hope it was clear.

[BrintoSFJ]

So this is a list of Roleplaying games games? The G in RPG already means Games you know!

[arkanon]

The irony is real on this one considering your last claim about my activity in sub-forums. Panick much after being caught

you mean when you said you had to go back to a city to change specs in wow, on the retail forum, and when everyone mocked and laughed at you, you claimed you didnt know because you play Classic. At which point i linked posts of you claiming to have played every single expansion, and being in a "top 50" mythic raid guild?

I think you need to look up the meaning of the word irony, considering the subject matter is "making shit up"....You make this sound like a "gothcha moment", but your forum activity is free for everyone to see, in just two simple clicks. At which time it will be revealed that the overwhelming majority of your activity is on the retail forums, with an absolutely tiny percentage being the classic forum, the game you claimed is "real wow" - a statement made even stranger when we consider this quote from you:

Lul Classic community is just as tryhard and minmax as retail. With the difference that Classic endgame content is a joke.

[facefist]

I think you need to look up the meaning of the word irony, considering the subject matter is "making shit up"....You make this sound like a "gothcha moment", but your forum activity is free for everyone to see, in just two simple clicks. At which time it will be revealed that the overwhelming majority of your activity is on the retail forums, with an absolutely tiny percentage being the classic forum --

Yes just like you said, 3 posts on classic forums with 95 % in SL sub-forum. Which is free for everyone to see, in just two simple clicks. At which time it will be revealed that you made that up without actually going through my post history.

[Praestigium]

I will just quit the game. I think there are plenty of people who feel the same way - perhaps you LFR heroes will get your wish and all the big bad mythic raiding "elitists" will leave and you can have Classic 1 and Classic 2 all to yourselves.

Holy shit, the level of entitlement.

[Specialka]

Diablo 2, can't respec at all

Untrue, they added (granted, years later) a potion that you had to farm on several end act boss to respec.

- - - Updated - - -

Diablo-2?

Even the most casual action RPG like Diablo 2 forced you to make irreversible game choices - and that was not some bait thread as yours but real irreversible in the basicly endless level progression where you could not just RESTART and CATCH UP in the ladder.

D2 stats + talents were fixed and it made your CHOICE so much more impactfull for basicly your whole gametime, even if you played 24/7 for many many months each ladder season.

The RPG VALUE was the limitation and it made your choice to the character so much more valuable, since it had consequences.

WoW had from time to time similar things, but not as final as in D2. Things like TBC Aldor/Scryers had similar things going on and I did the switch. I went fom scryers EXALTED -> Aldor EXALTED on my MAIN in the full 8+ weeks of 16h/day grinding SPIDERS. The impact of that choice alone made TBC one of the most memorable expansion I ever played.

Untrue, they added (years later) a potion that allowed you to respec. You had to farm it on end act bosses.

[InfiniteCharger]

Irreversable gameplay elements in an RPG always revolve around class and spec. This hasn't changed in WOW.
These choices last the entire time you play the game and are irreversible.

Covenants are not irreversable as they are not tied to your class or spec in any way outside of this one expansion.
They provide abilities that can be used across many classes and specs so they aren't that special in the first place.
It is a temporary mechanic to add more legion like class hall game play to the expansion. Thats it.
But legion used the class and spec choice to build that game play. There is nothing permanent about a covenant.
That is the problem. Hyping up covenants as some big choice is ridiculous when it is temporary and probably wont persist the whole xpac.
You will forget about covenants when the next xpac comes along and your class and spec choice is the only thing that will still be permanent.
And it is the class and specs that will still be broken because Blizz keeps pulling out new temporary systems versus fixing the core class/spec.

[WaltherLeopold]

Let me do 5 hours worth of actual gameplay then. It's pretty simple for me at this point: if Covenant switching remains locked, and if that lock contains any forced time-gating like dailies or "fill this bar once a week then come back next Tuesday", I will just quit the game. I think there are plenty of people who feel the same way - perhaps you LFR heroes will get your wish and all the big bad mythic raiding "elitists" will leave and you can have Classic 1 and Classic 2 all to yourselves.

It's really hard to reply to you seriously and agree to some sort of consensus when you insist on trying to insult me.

[Kuja]

As long as you don't see top raiding guilds all being same covenant because it's slightly better than the others (Such as horde being better than alliance, making most pro guilds being horde).

[glowpipe]

"List other RPG games with irreversible Gameplay Customization like Covenants"

but... covens are changeable and not irreversible.. Mountains out of molehills

[Ange]

Untrue, they added (granted, years later) a potion that you had to farm on several end act boss to respec.

- - - Updated - - -



Untrue, they added (years later) a potion that allowed you to respec. You had to farm it on end act bosses.

Are you kidding?

Diablo 2 Release June 29, 2000

Diablo 2 Patch 1.13 (POTION PATCH) March 23, 2010

10 YEARS LATER (many "potion" players were not even born at the first ladder)

[Sunslayer]

I added another line in my post to clarify why WoW doesn't work the same way, but blame OP for asking about RPG's in general. That being said, competitive gaming is only a small fraction of WoW's player base. None of the Covenants are a "wrong choice" either since I highly doubt any SL boss will be unbeatable if you don't have a particular one.

- - - Updated - - -



Technically you can do anything if your DM lets you, but in AL 5E you can only retrain feats until lvl5. After that it's permanent.

A small fraction of the player base? Is that factual? Can you link to your data?

[Malikath]

So are you saying that Dark Souls 2 and 3 has actual classes and they are not just templates for quick stat distribution?.

demons's through to bloodborne are the soulsborne, classes are templates that restrict abilities, stats, and items, so no since the cursed/withered/ choice exists there is the ability to build your own template by starting with a true lvl1 character without any effective equipment but gain absolute control of the character without any influence from the starting selected template.

dark souls 2 did this particularly well by providing both the deprived and the explorer templates both at soul lvl1 while the actual class archetype styled templates all started between SL11 to SL14 with the cleric.

[Specialka]

Are you kidding?

Diablo 2 Release June 29, 2000

Diablo 2 Patch 1.13 (POTION PATCH) March 23, 2010

10 YEARS LATER (many "potion" players were not even born at the first ladder)

Yes, that did mean Blizzard adapted to the era. And thus you could respec in D2, even if you do not like it.