Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

[Beloren]

I don't think blizzard want to pursue a broader Kaldorei ... i think too many new people have come to blizzard, and were use to seeing night elves in WC3 and classic levelling zones, they never read the books or the lore, and they feel that the forest is what represents the night elves' core fantasy.

It may not be what was started or originally intended, but it's become that, they've clearly not pursued the dark elf side or arcane , demon fel elf side etc, - i mean they're called Kaldorei, children of the stars, and there is next to nothing on that compared to the forest - at least visually.

[ravenmoon]

I don't think blizzard want to pursue a broader Kaldorei ... i think too many new people have come to blizzard, and were use to seeing night elves in WC3 and classic levelling zones, they never read the books or the lore, and they feel that the forest is what represents the night elves' core fantasy.

It may not be what was started or originally intended, but it's become that, they've clearly not pursued the dark elf side or arcane , demon fel elf side etc, - i mean they're called Kaldorei, children of the stars, and there is next to nothing on that compared to the forest - at least visually.

I've just written an extensive topic talking about the star focus - but to be honest with you night elves have several fantasies. if blizzard want to run predominantly with the forest one for them, they need to change the name.

The night elven silver eyes shine like stars, that speaks to the star identity, they also have a stars emote, the arcane magic spells priests, druids cast are star related, but there isn't much more to it. Head over to :Best way to bring out the stars in the Kaldorei (Children of the Stars)? for more

[Tanaria]

I don't think blizzard want to pursue a broader Kaldorei ... i think too many new people have come to blizzard, and were use to seeing night elves in WC3 and classic levelling zones, they never read the books or the lore, and they feel that the forest is what represents the night elves' core fantasy.

It may not be what was started or originally intended, but it's become that, they've clearly not pursued the dark elf side or arcane , demon fel elf side etc, - i mean they're called Kaldorei, children of the stars, and there is next to nothing on that compared to the forest - at least visually.

Nightborne Astromancers deal more with arcane magical practices and the stars than the Night Elves do.
Night Elves never truly had much dealings with the stars in the first place though - it was always the "Moon" which was their jam. Perhaps the Moon being so closely related to stars is actually a reverence. Perhaps they seem themselves as the stars and Elune as the "Moon" to which they revere (unless your Sira or Delaryn.)

[Hellspawn]

Nightborne Astromancers deal more with arcane magical practices and the stars than the Night Elves do.
Night Elves never truly had much dealings with the stars in the first place though - it was always the "Moon" which was their jam. Perhaps the Moon being so closely related to stars is actually a reverence. Perhaps they seem themselves as the stars and Elune as the "Moon" to which they revere (unless your Sira or Delaryn.)

There is a Elune connection to stars, for night elfs its a priest thing ... and a druid thing. Like Starshards and Starfall.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Starshards
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=191034/starfall

[Tanaria]

There is a Elune connection to stars, for night elfs its a priest thing ... and a druid thing. Like Starshards and Starfall.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Starshards
https://www.wowhead.com/spell=191034/starfall

But a Druid thing is not really compelling me anymore since the average Kul'Tiran, Troll or Tauren can also use those spells.

[Hellspawn]

But a Druid thing is not really compelling me anymore since the average Kul'Tiran, Troll or Tauren can also use those spells.

Its a Elune priest thing aswell don't just take half the sentence o.O
And it can be assumed that the Starfall of druids is from Elune aswell.

[Beloren]

Nightborne Astromancers deal more with arcane magical practices and the stars than the Night Elves do.
Night Elves never truly had much dealings with the stars in the first place though - it was always the "Moon" which was their jam. Perhaps the Moon being so closely related to stars is actually a reverence. Perhaps they seem themselves as the stars and Elune as the "Moon" to which they revere (unless your Sira or Delaryn.)

It's not that they didn't, they just weren't shown much in the night elf. You shouldn't forget Nightborne are horde night elves. This is what makes Ravenmoon's requests sort of hard to process, because blizzard see the Nightborne as night elves, just that dark elf side, but on another faction, so they don't feel the need to present it much in the night elves.

This means the night elf can be focused more on the forest. I know he doesn't like that, I know he wants the alliance night elf to have all those things.. but the truth is blizzard decided to do it different with the elves. Rather than make the Nightborne just copy a part of the night elves, they literally gave the nightborne the dark elf half of the night elf.

Now it's a bit weird because nightborne don't have the Cihldren of the star name, except or what if, Nightborne actually view themselves as kaldorei, and Nightborne is viewed like Highborne, as racial caste or kaldorei? We actually don't know - Ravenmoon himself discussed this perception possibility, that we really can't be sure of, because the Nightborne still seem to be awfully tied to tehir kaldorei identity. There isn't denouncning of it, and a lot of bragging about it, and you can't mistake that Suramar is full of Night elf symbols, but yet is Nightborne = they are also nightborne symbols = Nightborne is a sect of night elf, just like void elf is of high/blood elf.

I think the evidence backs this up, the developers actually view the Nightborne as night elves, and they developed a night elf city, with slightly changed night elven inhabitants they call Nightborne, with a pride in the name similar to how the Highborne have.

[ravenmoon]

Its a Elune priest thing aswell don't just take half the sentence o.O
And it can be assumed that the Starfall of druids is from Elune aswell.

Yep, and they're hte ones associated with it..it's even in their name. it's like blizzard forget this side completely.

[Beloren]

Nightborne Astromancers deal more with arcane magical practices and the stars than the Night Elves do.
Night Elves never truly had much dealings with the stars in the first place though - it was always the "Moon" which was their jam. Perhaps the Moon being so closely related to stars is actually a reverence. Perhaps they seem themselves as the stars and Elune as the "Moon" to which they revere (unless your Sira or Delaryn.)

What this means is that the star appearance, affliations, presentation will show up much more strongly in the Nightborne, because they are that half of the Night elf, meanwhile the Night elf will keep all of what it already has, but don't expect any major shifts towards a star identity or presentation, nor an arcane one.

Which is why I think people like Ravenmoon will be disappointed. His vision may be accurately based on lore, but that lore changes and the developers sometimes alter how they do things. May be right that allied races are not their to split focus of the races, however Nightborne could be the exception that blizzard are okay with, feeling that if they're going to represent the arcane culture of the night elves, then the alliance night elves don't need to.

The problem is that IF Night elves were a major love for the dev team, then they would 100% have done it like Ravenmoon and Mace are predicting, but the developers love the elves, and I think see them as one family with different parts rather than the troll approach having a lead tribe. It's an exception and it's not the first time.

Nightborne are HEAVILY Night elven - they use to post about this alot 3 years ago, well turns out they were right, but what that meant is that all these parts of the night elves they want to see in the alliance group are going to be seen in the Nightborne group. That's what it means. The Highborne will never be big amongst the night elves unless they have a major night elf push again.

You going to have to go Nightborne for all that kaldorei pre-sundering stuff and dark elf side, and likely star focus - or rather the arcane half of the star focus.

Their best hope is if Nightborne also become playable on the alliance. or become friends with the Nightborne, and the Highborne and nightborne work together despite being on opposite factions, like Ravenmoon wants.

I just think it's unlikely we're going to see the type of progression in the night elves he wants because they will use the nightborne for that.

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Yep, and they're hte ones associated with it..it's even in their name. it's like blizzard forget this side completely.

They eventually showed it, but they changed those night elves to Nightborne, so it's their via the Nightborne. They just need to sort out the name thing. If they clarified that Nightborne are a specific nation of Kaldorei or consider themselves such, then the connection would be obvious to everyone.

It's obvious to me (thanks to you), Nightborne is like Kul'tiran, a different name that speaks more of the nation, but doubles up as a race, because they are a bit more varied from the normal human. And this is fine, because the Nightborne are based off the kaldorei - it's obvious visually and you can see it in the lore.

Therefore: Nightborne = dark elf Kaldorei arcane side, with the star iconography as a part of the ngiht elves now known as Nightborne. Simple. It's still kaldorei heritage but you experience it on the Nightborne.

[ravenmoon]

They eventually showed it, but they changed those night elves to Nightborne, so it's their via the Nightborne. They just need to sort out the name thing. If they clarified that Nightborne are a specific nation of Kaldorei or consider themselves such, then the connection would be obvious to everyone.

It's obvious to me (thanks to you), Nightborne is like Kul'tiran, a different name that speaks more of the nation, but doubles up as a race, because they are a bit more varied from the normal human. And this is fine, because the Nightborne are based off the kaldorei - it's obvious visually and you can see it in the lore.

Therefore: Nightborne = dark elf Kaldorei arcane side, with the star iconography as a part of the ngiht elves now known as Nightborne. Simple. It's still kaldorei heritage but you experience it on the Nightborne.

I know all that, but the Nightborne being that arcane side of the Night elves doesn't make Highborne or the arcane itself operating amongst the Night elves redundant. Especially since the Nightborne are on the opposite faction in a game that asks you to choose.

Night elves who like their arcane heritage and side shouldn't be expected to have to roll an allied race on the opposite faction or even on the same faction to experience something that is clearly a part of their lore.

It's fine if blizzard wanted to develop that side of the kaldorei much more on the Nightborne than on the night elves, but it should be noted that some of us like that part on the night elf too, and like it specifically because it is kaldorei, not Shal'dorei.

Besides it is kaldorei lore, never forget that, and for people like me I'm preferring night elf over Nightborne atm because of the attitude and behaviour they've written the two groups, I shouldn't have to roll Nightborne to experience kaldorei arcane mastery or see kaldorei cities develop or Highborne and Moonguard grow - that's just nonsense...it's like saying that because Kul'tirans have ships and a navy, that Stormwind shouldn't have either and people who like the Kingdom of Stormwind shouldn't expect or look forward to having any more naval stories or ship dockyards play any role in Stormwind.

It's fine for Kul'tiras to have that as it's focus, but Kul'tirans have their own story that while human is different from the Stormwind kingdom, developing Kul'tiras doesn't mean you should leave Stormwind behind or only focus on the attributes of Stormwind absent in the Kul'tirans, that's just silly.

Why should night elves not have any arcane or Highborne development, Moonguard or cities etc just because the Nightborne have that? They're a separate faction even though part of the same racial umbrella. it's like saying blood elves shouldn't have arcane magic and scholarly discipline because that's a hallmark of the void elves - which is silly seeing that such is part of the blood elves own lore set up, even if the void elves are from the blood elves but are now a separate group doing their own thing, having being partially genetically altered. - now substitute blood elf for night elf and void elf for Nightborne. See?

[Powerogue]

I know all that, but the Nightborne being that arcane side of the Night elves doesn't make Highborne or the arcane itself operating amongst the Night elves redundant. Especially since the Nightborne are on the opposite faction in a game that asks you to choose.

Night elves who like their arcane heritage and side shouldn't be expected to have to roll an allied race on the opposite faction or even on the same faction to experience something that is clearly a part of their lore.

After two threads he frickin' admits it. "Yes, nightborne perfectly encapsulate literally everything we want from playable kaldorei, but we won't because that'd mean playing Horde."

You know what's also "part of the lore"? Everything that happened from the start of the War of the Ancients to now.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Night_elf_(playable)
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Night_elf

To still be convinced the playable night elves maintain the same culture and "Blizzard just got it wrong" would mean not even making it to the end of the first paragraph of their wiki page.

"Night elves (or kaldorei, for "Children of the Stars" in Darnassian[2]), are a powerful and mystical race whose origins extend back to ancient times. These then-immortal beings were among the first to study magic and let it loose throughout the world nearly ten thousand years before the First War.[3] The founders of a magical and advanced civilization which at its peak spanned the breadth of ancient Kalimdor," Wow these magic users sure love magic!

"...The night elves abandoned the use of arcane magic, fearing its use would draw the Burning Legion back to their world. The main survivors of the Sundering crafted a radically different society centered around druidism, the harmony with the natural world and its denizens." Oh.

[ravenmoon]

After two threads he frickin' admits it. "Yes, nightborne perfectly encapsulate literally everything we want from playable kaldorei, but we won't because that'd mean playing Horde."

You know what's also "part of the lore"? Everything that happened from the start of the War of the Ancients to now.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Night_elf_(playable)
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Night_elf

To still be convinced the playable night elves maintain the same culture and "Blizzard just got it wrong" would mean not even making it to the end of the first paragraph of their wiki page.

"Night elves (or kaldorei, for "Children of the Stars" in Darnassian[2]), are a powerful and mystical race whose origins extend back to ancient times. These then-immortal beings were among the first to study magic and let it loose throughout the world nearly ten thousand years before the First War.[3] The founders of a magical and advanced civilization which at its peak spanned the breadth of ancient Kalimdor," Wow these magic users sure love magic!

"...The night elves abandoned the use of arcane magic, fearing its use would draw the Burning Legion back to their world. The main survivors of the Sundering crafted a radically different society centered around druidism, the harmony with the natural world and its denizens." Oh.

Lol, that's a bit amateurish, you know full well not all night elves abandoned the use of arcane magic, and currently, such use is no longer prohibited.. if you are going to misquote the lore by selectively highlighting only parts of it, do so in a topic full of people who dont know any better or care.

However, I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, what is this thing I am finally admitting? Have you ever read any of my posts? Those who have know I'm not saying anything new here that I havent previously said multiple times to multiple people .., what are you trying to say human?

[Tanaria]

That's right.
Many of those Night Elves who refused to stop using the Arcane were exiled and they became the High Elves and established Quel'Thalas and within that location, established their flourishing kingdom of Quel'Thalas, with their Arcane Sanctums, arcane barrier that prevented averted the gaze of Sargeras and created the Sunwell and Silvermoon through arcane magic.

[yana]

Lol, that's a bit amateurish, you know full well not all night elves abandoned the use of arcane magic, and currently, such use is no longer prohibited.. if you are going to misquote the lore by selectively highlighting only parts of it, do so in a topic full of people who dont know any better or care.

However, I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, what is this thing I am finally admitting? Have you ever read any of my posts? Those who have know I'm not saying anything new here that I havent previously said multiple times to multiple people .., what are you trying to say human?

and it backtracks with elegance of a rusted spoon.
Just play a nightborne my dude, the highborne will never be important or relevant to the kaldorei, i can see paladins becoming more important when they get added than the mages ever will and you need to accept that.

What you want is already being served to you, on the horde.

Go play it because the majority of the highborne are either useless or dead, useless AND undead, the moonguard will never be referenced again and they are also mostly, wait for it, 6 feet under too!.
who can forget the wonderfull ghosts that are also soon to be permenantly dead, because thats what the highborne are for, they are stagnat relics of a past the kaldorei dont even like, waiting for their dishonorable sunset where no tears will be shed, because 99 % of highborne are abject scumbags

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Also if nelves are ever going to get a type of magic, it will be something similar to what the nightfae have showcassed, not highborne 2.0.

[Powerogue]

Lol, that's a bit amateurish, you know full well not all night elves abandoned the use of arcane magic, and currently, such use is no longer prohibited.. if you are going to misquote the lore by selectively highlighting only parts of it, do so in a topic full of people who dont know any better or care.

However, I'm not sure what you are trying to say here, what is this thing I am finally admitting? Have you ever read any of my posts? Those who have know I'm not saying anything new here that I havent previously said multiple times to multiple people .., what are you trying to say night elf main since vanilla dropped?

You cite headcanon and pictures of other fictional worlds that are not and have never been World of Warcraft as if either of those are evidence that somehow you're right and Blizzard are wrong.

While intentionally disregarding at every possible opportunity the actual story of the game. Like wasn't it you just earlier that posted "Warcraft 3? Why should we care about Warcraft 3?" Oh I don't know maybe it's because it was when the night elves were first written by Blizzard.

Is it any wonder why everyone else gives up talking to you? I've cited literally everything the night elves have ever done since they came out of Blizzard's head and all I get back is "nuh uhhhhh they love magic. Look at this fanart."

[Feanoro]

Horde was given new models based on Night Elves and a gorgeous city, both of which clearly took tons of work and time. (Side effect, Blood Elves were rendered redundant.)
Alliance was given recolored Blood Elf models and another floating rock.

I can't blame anyone who wants to play an arcane elf without being forced to go Horde.

[ravenmoon]

You cite headcanon and pictures of other fictional worlds that are not and have never been World of Warcraft as if either of those are evidence that somehow you're right and Blizzard are wrong.

While intentionally disregarding at every possible opportunity the actual story of the game. Like wasn't it you just earlier that posted "Warcraft 3? Why should we care about Warcraft 3?" Oh I don't know maybe it's because it was when the night elves were first written by Blizzard.

Is it any wonder why everyone else gives up talking to you? I've cited literally everything the night elves have ever done since they came out of Blizzard's head and all I get back is "nuh uhhhhh they love magic. Look at this fanart."

Nevermind everyone else, focus on you, and coherently making your case. I will deal with everyone else on a per person basis.

If you would be so kind as to actually point out this so called disregarding of the actual story of the game that you're accusing me of? I'd like to see you try.

You see, I have pointed out exactly where I have identified you've egregiously mis-stepped and stated exactly what you've done so over. Ofc if you're only interested in insulting me, then it would explain why these empty words keep coming, but if you actually genuinely care and genuinely think so and are not just talking big for fanfare sake, then actually prove it. don't just say I am, show me where I am, and how I am.

As I've told others who've levied similar accusations, they should stop being so petty and confrontational and actually prove it. They really can't, because I'm not, not in this instance, not in this case, not over this topic.

However, just on the off chance I am not understanding what you are referring to, you have an opportunity to clarify. I suggest you take it for arguments sake.

[Super Dickmann]

@Powerogue

For his next move he'll send you that one screenshot of the dev interview that says that night elves are a merge of drow and wood elves.

[ravenmoon]

Horde was given new models based on Night Elves and a gorgeous city, both of which clearly took tons of work and time. (Side effect, Blood Elves were rendered redundant.)
Alliance was given recolored Blood Elf models and another floating rock.

I can't blame anyone who wants to play an arcane elf without being forced to go Horde.

You know, right! what a crime it seems to wnat to play a night elf arcane master that I've read about in the novels for the last 20 years, was granted the opportunity to start playing in cata - what a crime it is to want more of the stuff i read in WotA civilization side and arcane side actually more visible in the game - yet they make me sound as if I want to turn the night elves only into that, - which again is either them failing to comprehend what i'm saying despite numerous reminders or they're just being wicked, manipulating intentionally what someone is saying and accusing them of false points.


Yet these horde fan boys, come out boldly stating the alliance night elves should live in trees because they're primitive, forest animal types (no I keep reminding them, they're elves with a distinguished background in this fantasy, they're not animals or ferals - we have other races for that (e.g. Worgen, troll - for your savage archetype), and the warcraft night elf is not a 100% wood elf he is a dark elf/wood elf hybrid that is meant to carry the best of both tropes), and these elves are not DnD or classic fantasy forest people that live in trees - that fantasy has not been the night elf one - new race can be used for that, but the night elf already has its fantasy in great detail over several novel volumes and in-game appearances, comics, etc.

But no, they won't have it, you mention night elven arcane or magic users, and/or them getting an amazing city, a night elf city from night elf lore - oh that's horde they cry now, you can't have it - biggest culprits are that Tanaria, Enigmaddict, Alanar and MywholeLifeIsThunder, although Tanaria and Enigdmaddict sort of came round with their main points only being that it shouldn't be Suramar, so I guess not all are unreasonable. But some of the things they said are either insane or outright trolling. And they know it.

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@Powerogue

For his next move he'll send you that one screenshot of the dev interview that says that night elves are a merge of drow and wood elves.

That was covered in the OP, powerogue only needs read it. But ofc you have to accept it, not deny it for us to make any progress. Afterall, i'm taking in the whole of the lore, not just the parts I want.

I'm not denying druidism or the forest half of the elf, as opposed to some on here who seem to completely ignore and reject the arcane and urban side of the night elves.

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That's right.
Many of those Night Elves who refused to stop using the Arcane were exiled and they became the High Elves and established Quel'Thalas and within that location, established their flourishing kingdom of Quel'Thalas, with their Arcane Sanctums, arcane barrier that prevented averted the gaze of Sargeras and created the Sunwell and Silvermoon through arcane magic.

Let's forget the other two cities full of Night elves who continued using the arcane, and whose popualtions would have exceeded the surviors.

Le'ts also conveniently forget all the night elves who have started training and joining those arcane wielders currently, not to mention the fact there is no ban on the arcane now, and night elves with the talent and desire for it are now free to train and learn in this.

let's ignore all that and only see the points we want to make about night elves not having anything our precious horde elves have.

[Pheraz]

You cite headcanon and pictures of other fictional worlds that are not and have never been World of Warcraft as if either of those are evidence that somehow you're right and Blizzard are wrong.

While intentionally disregarding at every possible opportunity the actual story of the game. Like wasn't it you just earlier that posted "Warcraft 3? Why should we care about Warcraft 3?" Oh I don't know maybe it's because it was when the night elves were first written by Blizzard.

Is it any wonder why everyone else gives up talking to you? I've cited literally everything the night elves have ever done since they came out of Blizzard's head and all I get back is "nuh uhhhhh they love magic. Look at this fanart."

NIght elf mages are a fact. Get over it. If you like it or not. They even teleport Tyrande around in the newest book: Shadows Rising
They rejoined the night elves in cataclysm (10 years ago). High borne night elves from dire maul are teaching new students. I am sorry

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Here is an image of one of their hubs in Feralas. The tower of... don't know the name anymore.
There is even an "ancient of the arcane" and many many, highbornes + new mages