Night Elves, Magic & the Arcane - Common Misconceptions & Things You Didn't Consider

[Combatbutler]

NIght elf mages are a fact. Get over it. If you like it or not. They even teleport Tyrande around in the newest book: Shadows Rising
They rejoined the night elves in cataclysm (10 years ago). High borne night elves from dire maul are teaching new students. I am sorry

It is not denied that they exist, what is being denied is them being an integral part of night elf society, they are a fringe group. Saying night elf society has now a great arcane magic focus is flat out wrong, expecting society to drift back to something akin to the empire days just because a handful of highborne were left back into society and started teaching a few new students is wishful thinking at best.

Here is an image of one of their hubs in Feralas. The tower of... don't know the name anymore.
There is even an "ancient of the arcane" and many many, highbornes + new mages

Estulan and you know what one of his students says?She lost her friends, because she chose this path.

[Tanaria]

Let's forget the other two cities full of Night elves who continued using the arcane, and whose popualtions would have exceeded the surviors.

Le'ts also conveniently forget all the night elves who have started training and joining those arcane wielders currently, not to mention the fact there is no ban on the arcane now, and night elves with the talent and desire for it are now free to train and learn in this.

let's ignore all that and only see the points we want to make about night elves not having anything our precious horde elves have.

Eldre'Thalas - the city that summoned a demon where the populace siphoned off it for 10,000 years, whilst Quel'Thalas was growing into a beauty never seen before. Also, where the Humans had developed to the advanced level where they were the Guardians of Azeroth. Yes, it was Humans who did that role, not Night Elves.
And Suramar - who exiled themselves from the world, not part of the group following Malfurion and Tyrande, therefore not relevent.

And let's remember the night elves who did take up arcane again in Cataclysm. So, Azshara...oh yes. Failure Constructs. Driven out of their base camp and the Highborne Amberwind and her students, killed.

It's not our fault Blizzard puts more emphasis on the Arcane into Void Elves and Nightborne. You just have to deal with the fact that the Thalassian and Shal'dorei Elves are the real Elven Mages now. I mean, 3 times Blizzard could have used Shen'dralar and they didn't. They used Kirin Tor loyal night elf mages and then night elf hunters.

It is not denied that they exist, what is being denied is them being an integral part of night elf society, they are a fringe group. Saying night elf society has now a great arcane magic focus is flat out wrong, expecting society to drift back to something akin to the empire days just because a handful of highborne were left back into society and started teaching a few new students is wishful thinking at best.

Exactly.
It's mere headcanon to believe a group of near extinct mages, who were already being killed twice, now three times, hold any sort of power in the current group.

Even in the new novel (spoilers), the core leaders are shown to be Tyrande, Malfurion, Maiev and Shandris. Not one time is a night elf mage mentioned. Mr. Evenshade...you wouldn't even know he exists.

[Pheraz]

Eldre'Thalas - the city that summoned a demon where the populace siphoned off it for 10,000 years, whilst Quel'Thalas was growing into a beauty never seen before. Also, where the Humans had developed to the advanced level where they were the Guardians of Azeroth. Yes, it was Humans who did that role, not Night Elves.
And Suramar - who exiled themselves from the world, not part of the group following Malfurion and Tyrande, therefore not relevent.

And let's remember the night elves who did take up arcane again in Cataclysm. So, Azshara...oh yes. Failure Constructs. Driven out of their base camp and the Highborne Amberwind and her students, killed.

It's not our fault Blizzard puts more emphasis on the Arcane into Void Elves and Nightborne. You just have to deal with the fact that the Thalassian and Shal'dorei Elves are the real Elven Mages now. I mean, 3 times Blizzard could have used Shen'dralar and they didn't. They used Kirin Tor loyal night elf mages and then night elf hunters.



Exactly.
It's mere headcanon to believe a group of near extinct mages, who were already being killed twice, now three times, hold any sort of power in the current group.

Even in the new novel (spoilers), the core leaders are shown to be Tyrande, Malfurion, Maiev and Shandris. Not one time is a night elf mage mentioned. Mr. Evenshade...you wouldn't even know he exists.

Wrong. A night elf mage is mentioned, she/he teleports them into the SW stockades

[Tanaria]

Wrong. A night elf mage is mentioned, she/he teleports them into the SW stockades

Wow...totally not what Humans, Void Elves, High Elves, Nightborne and Orcs haven't already been doing all expansion.

[Pheraz]

Wow...totally not what Humans, Void Elves, High Elves, Nightborne and Orcs haven't already been doing all expansion.

No one said this, just wanted to point out, that in the new book it is specifically mentioned that it is a "Kaldorei mage". So I agree with some of you that they are not a big part of the society, but they are still a part of the society. Can't everyone be happy now? =D Also, where is the problem if people here dream of more sceen time for kaldorei mages? Let people have their dreams, jeez

[Tanaria]

No one said this, just wanted to point out, that in the new book it is specifically mentioned that it is a "Kaldorei mage". So I agree with some of you that they are not a big part of the society, but they are still a part of the society. Can't everyone be happy now? =D Also, where is the problem if people here dream of more sceen time for kaldorei mages? Let people have their dreams, jeez

When people spout wrong information and claim things that aren't true and are headcanon then I will tell them.
If it doesn't fit your little dreams, then - tough.

If you wish to discuss headcanon, then label it as such.

[Pheraz]

When people spout wrong information and claim things that aren't true and are headcanon then I will tell them.
If it doesn't fit your little dreams, then - tough.

If you wish to discuss headcanon, then label it as such.

Wow what a tough human you are! Squashing all my dreams about Azshara's reign 2.0, a fictional character in a (obvious) fictional world in a video game! How dare you! *rollseyes*

[Tanaria]

It's funny how this argument comes about, yet when I say the same thing about Blood Elf Mages being powerful, suddenly it's all very different.

"No, no - Blood Elves don't have as much knowledge as night elves do."
"Blood Elves might be powerful, but they are leagues behind night elves."

So, it's ok for you to have yours, but when it comes to Blood Elves, suddenly it's a different story.

Pot kettle black *rollseyes.*

[Ironfoe2]

You've put way too much work into something that doesn't even exist.

[Powerogue]

@Powerogue

For his next move he'll send you that one screenshot of the dev interview that says that night elves are a merge of drow and wood elves.

Two can play at that game, then!

Boy howdy I am so glad Blizzard are going back to their original concepts for the night elves with these new Shadowlands customizations. Truly they are going back their "roots." Hah, puns.





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NIght elf mages are a fact. Get over it.

I'm just arguing against what he wasted another second thread trying to make a case for: that somehow playable Darnassian night elves are still a society that embraces and loves magic and stars. And somehow Blizzard have just been wrong ever since Warcraft 3. I could compare it to rolling an orc warlock and walking into Orgrimmar. All those WC1-3 veteran orcs are going to look at you like "What are you doing, my orcish bretheren? Are you unaware of the trials and tribulations we faced to free ourselves from demonic corruption? For shame!" [fixed as per request]

[Pheraz]

Two can play at that game, then!

Boy howdy I am so glad Blizzard are going back to their original concepts for the night elves with these new Shadowlands customizations. Truly they are going back their "roots." Hah, puns.





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I'm just arguing against what he wasted another second thread trying to make a case for: that somehow playable Darnassian night elves are still a society that embraces and loves magic and stars. And somehow Blizzard have just been wrong ever since Warcraft 3. I could compare it to rolling an orc warlock and walking into Orgrimmar. All those WC1-3 veteran orcs are going to look at you like "bruh, seriously?"

We are all wasting our time hanging around in this forum from time to time anyways, so what. Also... "bruh" ? Please, don't...
Yes you have a point, some parts of societies are bigger than others. This thread, clearly driven by people that like the arcane part in Kaldorei, tries to make this part a bit bigger. So... just let the people that think this is important to them let them have their fun. I don't get what's wrong about this? It's a fantasy game after all. Have some fantasy *hands a cup of some fantasy over* - see

[Beloren]

It is not denied that they exist, what is being denied is them being an integral part of night elf society, they are a fringe group. Saying night elf society has now a great arcane magic focus is flat out wrong, expecting society to drift back to something akin to the empire days just because a handful of highborne were left back into society and started teaching a few new students is wishful thinking at best.

well said friend

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It's funny how this argument comes about, yet when I say the same thing about Blood Elf Mages being powerful, suddenly it's all very different.

"No, no - Blood Elves don't have as much knowledge as night elves do."
"Blood Elves might be powerful, but they are leagues behind night elves."

So, it's ok for you to have yours, but when it comes to Blood Elves, suddenly it's a different story.

Pot kettle black *rollseyes.*

All we know is that night elf mages are as powerful as blood elf ones, that's all blizzard actually confrimed, the rest is hyperbole

[ravenmoon]

When people spout wrong information and claim things that aren't true and are headcanon then I will tell them.
If it doesn't fit your little dreams, then - tough.

If you wish to discuss headcanon, then label it as such.

You spout headcanon all the time, it's easy to tell it is, I don't need you to label it as headcanon, But you are free to if you want.

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It is not denied that they exist, what is being denied is them being an integral part of night elf society, they are a fringe group. Saying night elf society has now a great arcane magic focus is flat out wrong, expecting society to drift back to something akin to the empire days just because a handful of highborne were left back into society and started teaching a few new students is wishful thinking at best.

.

You should keep up with the arguments here. And what some of the people you seem to be defending are actually saying.


You should also pay attention to what I say. The guy is denying their existence, and I am not saying they are super integral to the current Darnassian society either, in fact several times I supported OP in the statement that arcane practice isn't widespread amongst the Darnassians. So why aren't you supporting me and calling him out?


Is it because you have a bias against me and you don't read or listen to what I say? Have you made conclusions a long time ago concerning me, and rather than read every word and follow the conversation being fair and impartial, you've held fast to your initial conclusions, as I've noticed you've often retorted and sneered when response haven't agreed with you.




When you've have said something I have agreed with, and support, you have seen me reply positively and favourably towards you despite your attitude and behaviour to me in previous comments and posts - though you never return the same courtesy even when I've later said the same thing you've said - hence why I view you as biased against me. I don't know you personally. I can't hate you or dislike you just because I disagree with some of your views on a fantasy game or because you sometimes get annoyed.


But at least give what I say a fair chance and don't be so quick to defend people just because they normally agree with you. I always call my friends even my own brother out when I disagree with them, and I love them.

[Beloren]

You should keep up with the arguments here. And what some of the people you seem to be defending are actually saying.


You should also pay attention to what I say. The guy is denying their existence, and I am not saying they are super integral to the current Darnassian society either, in fact several times I supported OP in the statement that arcane practice isn't widespread amongst the Darnassians. So why aren't you supporting me and calling him out?


Is it because you have a bias against me and you don't read or listen to what I say? Have you made conclusions a long time ago concerning me, and rather than read every word and follow the conversation being fair and impartial, you've held fast to your initial conclusions, as I've noticed you've often retorted and sneered when response haven't agreed with you.




When you've have said something I have agreed with, and support, you have seen me reply positively and favourably towards you despite your attitude and behaviour to me in previous comments and posts - though you never return the same courtesy even when I've later said the same thing you've said - hence why I view you as biased against me. I don't know you personally. I can't hate you or dislike you just because I disagree with some of your views on a fantasy game or because you sometimes get annoyed.


But at least give what I say a fair chance and don't be so quick to defend people just because they normally agree with you. I always call my friends even my own brother out when I disagree with them, and I love them.

You do exactly the same thing you, you don't always give others a fair chance and you're quick to call horde conspiracy.

[ravenmoon]

NIght elf mages are a fact. Get over it. If you like it or not. They even teleport Tyrande around in the newest book: Shadows Rising
They rejoined the night elves in cataclysm (10 years ago). High borne night elves from dire maul are teaching new students. I am sorry

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Here is an image of one of their hubs in Feralas. The tower of... don't know the name anymore.
There is even an "ancient of the arcane" and many many, highbornes + new mages

No one said this, just wanted to point out, that in the new book it is specifically mentioned that it is a "Kaldorei mage". So I agree with some of you that they are not a big part of the society, but they are still a part of the society. Can't everyone be happy now? =D Also, where is the problem if people here dream of more sceen time for kaldorei mages? Let people have their dreams, jeez

The funny thing, is I have said many times in the past, previous topics too, that arcane practice isn't widespread amongst the Darnassians, but they're not interested in the truth or facts, just in shoe horning their point of view, because I actually have a point in many of my discussions.

It's clear night elves do have arcane magic and arcane wings, and an arcane history and an arcane fantasy, and I like that as well as wanting to see more of it, have stated many times that this desire doesn't mean I want night elves turning into a full blown out arcane society like say the Nightborne subrace is - showing more arcane development and prowess doesn't mean a removal of the forest aspects and side, never has done, nor does it mean the druid will disappear.

The reason they like to make such assertions is a psychological trick to make people think that any request for night elven magic or cities or civilization is somehow breaking what the night elves mean or imposing on the horde identity - this is a false argument which I have also addressed as well as several others too. They know this, but they think if they say it enough times, enough people will believe and just ignore facts and truths.

At the end of the day, they want it to make it seem like either desiring night elven arcane stuff is bad and wrong and I should join the horde for that - can you imagine this arrogance? telling me or dictating how I should desire, and they call the statements about night elven mages, night elven arcane history as headcanon - which is laughable.. I asked the powerogue guy to point out exactly where this head canon was, he could not, Because I actually am aware of what I say and in this instance know what I'm talking about having had this argument with them for a while now.


However apparently, they will tell you that I and Mace are the only ones that share the view on night elves, ignoring you, Feanoro, Astranea, Ardensao and many others, because you don't respond as often as I do - at the end of the day, they're only kidding themselves.

The lore is RIGHT there, we may argue about future directions and implications, but it's all hearsay, such things blizzard entirely determines, it's just nerving to have a person completely ignore the facts they're told and selectively bring up only the ones they want to draw a false conclusion.

[Combatbutler]

...

I don't give a damn what people on this board think about me, they are free to despise me or like me, it ultimately doesn't matter. I usually say my piece on this matter and be done with it, discussing it, if I feel like it. That is it.

The reason I am stand offish to you, well one might even say snide, is very simple. You spammed threads with the same topic over and over again, instead of just keeping one going.

Which reminded me very much of the high elf guys, who were ultimately contained in their own megathread to tear each other to pieces in their own little corner, leaving the rest of the board in peace.

[Pheraz]

The funny thing, is I have said many times in the past, previous topics too, that arcane practice isn't widespread amongst the Darnassians, but they're not interested in the truth or facts, just in shoe horning their point of view, because I actually have a point in many of my discussions.

It's clear night elves do have arcane magic and arcane wings, and an arcane history and an arcane fantasy, and I like that as well as wanting to see more of it, have stated many times that this desire doesn't mean I want night elves turning into a full blown out arcane society like say the Nightborne subrace is - showing more arcane development and prowess doesn't mean a removal of the forest aspects and side, never has done, nor does it mean the druid will disappear.

The reason they like to make such assertions is a psychological trick to make people think that any request for night elven magic or cities or civilization is somehow breaking what the night elves mean or imposing on the horde identity - this is a false argument which I have also addressed as well as several others too. They know this, but they think if they say it enough times, enough people will believe and just ignore facts and truths.

At the end of the day, they want it to make it seem like either desiring night elven arcane stuff is bad and wrong and I should join the horde for that - can you imagine this arrogance? telling me or dictating how I should desire, and they call the statements about night elven mages, night elven arcane history as headcanon - which is laughable.. I asked the powerogue guy to point out exactly where this head canon was, he could not, Because I actually am aware of what I say and in this instance know what I'm talking about having had this argument with them for a while now.


However apparently, they will tell you that I and Mace are the only ones that share the view on night elves, ignoring you, Feanoro, Astranea, Ardensao and many others, because you don't respond as often as I do - at the end of the day, they're only kidding themselves.

The lore is RIGHT there, we may argue about future directions and implications, but it's all hearsay, such things blizzard entirely determines, it's just nerving to have a person completely ignore the facts they're told and selectively bring up only the ones they want to draw a false conclusion.

I would say, time to move on. I know there are many kaldorei fans of rp'er and non rp'ers that either play a kaldorei mage ingame and/or just like this part of kaldorei society. Sooooo, since the moderators can't clean up those threads of people that just jump in to spread hatred, let's not waste our time any longer and just make a discord group or something? This thread is full of weirdos. Like the whole forum (most of it)

[Tuor]

NIght elf mages are a fact. Get over it. If you like it or not. They even teleport Tyrande around in the newest book: Shadows Rising
They rejoined the night elves in cataclysm (10 years ago). High borne night elves from dire maul are teaching new students. I am sorry

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Here is an image of one of their hubs in Feralas. The tower of... don't know the name anymore.
There is even an "ancient of the arcane" and many many, highbornes + new mages

There is a huge diference betwin having arcane users (something i never denied) and the wholle NElf society resuming entirely around magic, which is what the OP and others defend.

[yana]

Wrong. A night elf mage is mentioned, she/he teleports them into the SW stockades

thats pretty much what the highborne are for when they were accepted: to be usefull, but not seen or heard very often, they exist because of pratical reasons but hold no power over the race politics and culture, certaintly not even the numbers to dictate what sort of architecture will be used on a new city.

And watch them just take up night fae esque magic and start wearing wild clothing, that be a blast to see how these .... posters would react.

[ravenmoon]

thats pretty much what the highborne are for when they were accepted: to be usefull not seen or heard very often, they exist because of pratical reasons but hold no power over the race politics and culture

Now that is head canon. The term you so often like using. Ofc another word for it is opinion, but if you want to be rude, we'll call it head canon. Yes, I am aware that you hold the view that Night elven mages were a massive mistake of cataclysm, and a ruining of the night elf lore I'm pretty sure you don't understand. While you may have a preference for not having them, they are certainly not a ruining of the lore but a natural and logical progression of it.

You then jump to the conclusion that their inclusion was only meant for gameplay purposes and means nothing else, a point I and others have raised with you in the past pointing out that you can't possibly know this for sure, and the level of involvement and investment in them far exceeds that conclusion of yours bearing any rational. They had an entire book involving them and we've seen them show up multiple times in cata and beyond amongst the night elves, in both books and in game - how could you make that assertion ? It is clearly head canon and you're denying what's in front of you, but accusing me who points it out to you of doing that instead. Meanwhile your horde cronies just mindlessly say yes ignoring the fact of the situation. If you were making the same assertion of say the Orc mage as just a practical thing, I might be more inclined to agree, after all we see nowhere near the same level of involvement.

It all just seems convenient to deny what's in front of you and only accept what you want to see rather than the whole of the situation.

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There is a huge diference betwin having arcane users (something i never denied) and the wholle NElf society resuming entirely around magic, which is what the OP and others defend.

Oh yeh? When have these "others" said Nelf society should resume entirely around arcane magic? You've totally misjudged me, and Mace for a fact cos he's never said that, at least not recently. Devils advocate posters like Enigmaddict have Alanar, Tanaria too have insinuated with hook bait lie, falsely claiming I've said something I haven't said, and you just went along with it.

I never said in this topic or any of the recent wants that Night elf society IS entirely around arcane practice, or should develop into such. I have had topics detailing my dreams and hopes and desires on how they should progress down the line, and never in any of them have i felt they should become like the invasion period of the pre-sundering era like the Nightborne have - if you cared to read my essays.

I have agreed that magic (both arcane and nature) is integrated thoroughly in the night elves, the OP maps that out quite clearly, but it's another thing to say the entire Darnassian groups needs to become steeped in arcane magic. Do you not see hordie fans deviously insinuating a position I haven't taken in these topics to just confuse people like yourself and Isilrien into thinking I'm making unreasonable requests - not that desiring such is unreasonable, ( i have considered such a future with the night elves as a possibility before - it's not bad or wrong to desire something) - what I do know is that they feel arcane magic mastery belongs to the horde elves as does elven cities and civilization - they believe that night elves shouldn't have any of this, night elves should be elf only in name, and rather be the savage feral race that power rogue linked pictures of.

You see this:


Chris Metzen shared some of his early concepts on what night elves should be. This is obviously not what they turned out to be AT ALL. They aren't primitive elves, nor savage feral worgen-esque elves either, the night elf was introduced as a dark elf with a wood elf half side to it, and an extensive history, lore, legacy, civilization, development, story crafted for them including multiple fantasies.


But the way he posts them holding them as some sort of proof, when it was a discarded concept piece and gleefully ignoring the other night elven art and representations, including the civilization ones, the arcane ones, the city ones, the moon priestess ones - shows you how selective and mis-leading they are being.