Shadowlands Beta - Choosing a Covenant

[Demeisen]

To all the covenant doomsayers: do you change your race every patch to find the right racial that fits the content? If the answer is no then congratulations! The decision will not mean a thing to you

Do you change your talents when you want to try something different, or because you want to find the right talent to fit the content? If the answer is no then congratulations! The decision will not mean a thing to you

[goldlock]

They also act as if they are pugging the high end stuff they are always 100% optimal and perform in the 99th percentile at. When we all know no one is pugging that shit so being denied entry into groups is something they don't have to worry about.

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Yup. We've had plenty of top end players from PvPers, raiders, and MDI claim covenants are no big deal. Yet the wannabes are still crying the sky is falling.

Are those not the same ones planning to level four of each class already for loot funneling...?

[Tomana]

Are you in alpha? Because are you aware of the interaction with conduits? Do you know that with night fae you get shadowmeld for instance?

Meanwhile, Kyrians get a steward. Sounds like totally balanced to me

[Halfaheart]

Do you change your talents when you want to try something different, or because you want to find the right talent to fit the content? If the answer is no then congratulations! The decision will not mean a thing to you

You mean like a trial run with the talents so you can spend a good amount of gameplay time with them? Yeah i think that's a great idea. That's why you go through each covenant's zone to get a feel for each unique ability and eventually make a choice once you hit cap. Don't like your choice? That's okay. You're allowed to swap but it comes at a cost, which is a tradeoff that has barely changed over the past several expansions. What you feel you're lacking in can be made up through other sources like soulbinds and legendary abilities to round out your character's overall skill. Once you put some thought into it other than reeing with rage it becomes pretty easy to understand

[Lefrog]

You mean like a trial run with the talents so you can spend a good amount of gameplay time with them? Yeah i think that's a great idea. That's why you go through each covenant's zone to get a feel for each unique ability and eventually make a choice once you hit cap. Don't like your choice? That's okay. You're allowed to swap but it comes at a cost, which is a tradeoff that has barely changed over the past several expansions. What you feel you're lacking in can be made up through other sources like soulbinds and legendary abilities to round out your character's overall skill. Once you put some thought into it other than reeing with rage it becomes pretty easy to understand

The best thing about essences/azerites/talents is that you can change them up and wail on a target dummy for 10 minutes to see how it feels/what it looks like. in addition, I found grinding out essences, azurite pieces, and corrupted gear (to see their effects, not BIS stacking) could be done in parallel and not affect each other. This is about as useful as running a sim on my character since those assume perfect gameplay and the sim options don't exactly represent a true fight. I didn't really play legion until the very last patch, so I can't comment of how those borrowed powers felt.

In Beta right now I have 4 DKs so I can experience how the covenants feel at max level. I imagine that for non-beta or casual players they will look up a guide that says DPS difference is only 5% between top and bottom with a suggested list like venthyr = necrolord > fae > kyrian. The guide will probably give some solid info on the utility difference for different types of content. However, to actually experience the difference in game with complete soulbinds, you'll have to go through a linear grind, then redo a linear re-grind if you want to play with something else. You'll also have to remember how that initial setup felt like to play, as swapping things around won't be as easy as in BFA. Imagine how essences would have felt if they got "destroyed" once you put them in your neck and removed them. Would you ever really play around and find out which one is more fun? Or will you have picked one to grind out and stuck with it (especially if guides said it was the best).

I'm ok with the covenant idea...but i'll definitely be doing less playing around in game and more sims + guides to determine what will be fun/feel good/do more damage/etc.

[psyquest]

Meanwhile, Kyrians get a steward. Sounds like totally balanced to me

Are you in alpha? Because are you aware of the interaction with conduits?

[Tesshin20]

I was going to write something factual and meaningful as an answer to people who think they need to pick the "right" covenant to get into pug groups full of tryhards who fail on mechanics anyway, then I recalled that people aren't open to new perspectives anyway. If Asmongold or Preach have made a statement, thats what they believe untill the end of the expansion no matter what actually happens or how it turns out :P

[Elim Garak]

Is it possible to not pick a covenant and play without it?

[Unholyground]

Do you change your talents when you want to try something different, or because you want to find the right talent to fit the content? If the answer is no then congratulations! The decision will not mean a thing to you

I literally never change my talents once I have found ones I like together personally, I keep the ones that have the most rotational impact that are passive (for the most part) as some classes have far too many buttons to press already.

There are small occasions where I might mess around with one or another but I legit do not change them once I settle on the best ones for my game play. I have yet to not be taken to content because of it because I am really good at playing the actual game instead of min/maxing, an no amount of that will make a shite player good.

[Demeisen]

I literally never change my talents once I have found ones I like together personally, I keep the ones that have the most rotational impact that are passive (for the most part) as some classes have far too many buttons to press already.

There are small occasions where I might mess around with one or another but I legit do not change them once I settle on the best ones for my game play. I have yet to not be taken to content because of it because I am really good at playing the actual game instead of min/maxing, an no amount of that will make a shite player good.

Good for you! But I wonder how many, say, fairly casual raiders - let's say heroic raiders - feel the same way about not taking optimal talents to a raid?





Further comparing a bad player with optimal talents to a good player with pool talents is a false equivalence (yet something that often gets trotted out here and elsewhere). Of course a bad player will be bad even with optimal talents. But a bad player is still likely to be better with optimal talents than sub-optimal talents, just as a good player is likely to be better with optimal talents than sub-optimal talents.

[Unholyground]

Good for you! But I wonder how many, say, fairly casual raiders - let's say heroic raiders - feel the same way about not taking optimal talents to a raid?





Further comparing a bad player with optimal talents to a good player with pool talents is a false equivalence (yet something that often gets trotted out here and elsewhere). Of course a bad player will be bad even with optimal talents. But a bad player is still likely to be better with optimal talents than sub-optimal talents, just as a good player is likely to be better with optimal talents than sub-optimal talents.

I mean I likely pick the optimal talents just by reading what they do, from the looks of it almost every one I picked without a guide is optimal anyways for all the listed classes.

Just play the game the way you want, a boss dying 3 minutes faster or slower is not going to make or break a guild that is just enjoying the content.

[Lurker1]

I mean I likely pick the optimal talents just by reading what they do, from the looks of it almost every one I picked without a guide is optimal anyways for all the listed classes.

Just play the game the way you want, a boss dying 3 minutes faster or slower is not going to make or break a guild that is just enjoying the content.

Well fucking said sir!

[Apeachy]

Cool you are using a night elf character as model for once

[Dakara]

So what happens when your desired Covenant Aesthetic comes with an ability that's a dead button for your spec? Or if the ability vastly changes your gameplay in a way you don't enjoy?

Ion can talk about balancing them all he wants, but many of the abilities have some serious issues mechanically.

[dope_danny]

At this point the amount of stuff we hear about covenants either makes it look like the most important factor of the expansion and the core selling point or theres just not much else to talk about and i dont know which is the more worrying option.

[kaintk]

I think you might be "sligthly" off in your dps difference.
When in the last couple of expansions has Blizzard been able to balance dps between choices? The optimist in me hopes they can balance dps differences between covenants to be well below 5%, the realist expects it to be at least 5%.
And then we haven't even looked at the utility aspect that has the potential to seriously mess up effectiveness of classes. As an example the Venthyr "skip" might very well become a part of raid strategies, meaning if your raid wants to use that strat they will have to bench all non-Venthyr (or classes that have that ability innate) player.

yeah, its why its sad, blizzard should not giving away power to each convenant, it should have been only a personnal choice, an rp choice, they force people to choose convenant for their spec/class they dont like

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I mean I likely pick the optimal talents just by reading what they do, from the looks of it almost every one I picked without a guide is optimal anyways for all the listed classes.

Just play the game the way you want, a boss dying 3 minutes faster or slower is not going to make or break a guild that is just enjoying the content.

the problem is not yourself picking up a convenant you want to play in and have fun, the problem is the hardcore gamer and m+ gamer will never take you when the community will decide what convenant everyone must have for m+ and raid, if you dont have the good convenant at this time, well sorry for your fun , but they will not take you

[Unholyground]

yeah, its why its sad, blizzard should not giving away power to each convenant, it should have been only a personnal choice, an rp choice, they force people to choose convenant for their spec/class they dont like

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the problem is not yourself picking up a convenant you want to play in and have fun, the problem is the hardcore gamer and m+ gamer will never take you when the community will decide what convenant everyone must have for m+ and raid, if you dont have the good convenant at this time, well sorry for your fun , but they will not take you

Not an issue in my guild we don't stress.