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  1. #1

    Improving Jinyu/Ankoan

    Between the Horde and Alliance, the Alliance has always been the harder 'fit' for new races, not just because the Alliance is a little bit narrower in theme, but because the Alliance's existing block of races doesn't have a lot of the 'holes' the Horde had early on.

    Horde lacked "high magic" and got Belfs.

    Horde lacked a "technology" focus and got Goblins.

    Draenei and Worgen were both an attempt at a 'monstrous' race for the alliance but they've had mixed success and reception.

    A few possible races have floated around for awhile, Furbolg getting a revamp, one kind or another of Arakkoa, etc...

    But I think both Jinyu and Ankoan are a great alliance race option since they help tie to both Nelfs, Tushui Pandaren, and to a lesser extent Kul'tirans, due to their heavy focus on water magic, and anti-naga focus.


    The Only Problem is... they both come across as a bit stiff and (Ironically) dry.

    So what could be done to make them more appealing or interesting to players in the future?
    Twas brillig

  2. #2
    Old God Mirishka's Avatar
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    I liked the Jinyu fine as is, and would love them as a playable race. I didn't care much for the Ankoan, they had awful voice acting - its like the dialogue coach said "think orc, but fishier!"
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  3. #3
    Well, I already like Jinyu. Fish people is a new kind of people that isn't playable right now, so already there's a lot of unique visual elements as far as not only the race itself but also the architecture. Of course, if Naga ever come into the picture it would probably steal a lot of if not all of the Jinyu's thunder. I think what makes Jinyu appealing on a surface level is the fact that they are basically fish people. They are wise fish people and they are seers, but it's not as relatable except maybe in a kind of spiritual sense that maybe Horde Shamanism is more akin to. So to that end, they can kind of be a religious kind of race, but in the Alliance the Light is aplenty and bountiful and already so prevalent and heavily focused in and especially considering how much the Draenei already dominate that role and embody it having another race so much about religion would probably just muddy the waters (heh) a lot.

    So, I think, really leaning into those fish elements, really bring on the fish puns, really make it obvious when interacting with Jinyu that they are fish and they have to worry about very fishy problems or solutions. Fish can communicate in the water acoustically. They're soft-bellied, and typically don't have spines so maybe things like this can be incorperated into their personalities. Jinyu could be cowards, weak but sensitive, and perhaps very wise and maybe leaning a bit less on the water-speaking side but more into a wise friend or elder kind of role -- really embracing that kind of wisdom of Pandaria in a way.

    Fish historically are also pretty agile, so them being really good at doing things like running away and getting out of danger (splashing about, flopping out of the enemy's grip perhaps even literally) seems like something that's a little unique. Their body temperatures may be more accustomed to changing regularly from having evolved from being a water-adapted species, so being in colder climates like Northrend or even really hot climates like a desert might ironically be fine with them. Of course, fish out of water context could also be fun, having Jinyu just kind of panting for water and flopping around helplessly might be kind of amusing.

    Other races seeing them as food like fish especially to Horde that would be enemies or even specifically Hozen may be a fun point of conflict. Races imagining Jinyu as various fishy delicacies... the kind of interactions a Jinyu might have seeing people make fish-based foods with cooking, or the kind of irony that might be apparent with a Jinyu serving you a fish-based meal and you having to wonder if Jinyus could be considered a type of cannibal or not... especially if it were like, a Murloc dish or something.

    Their eyes may be an interesting point of contention - do they have good vision, bad vision? Do they have a blind spot right in front of them? Do they have any kind of culture in as far as like cleaner fish to remove parasites? What about immunities - what are they resistant to, fire? If they're resistant to fire and being cooked, it might be kind of fun playing into that a bit with quests where Jinyu are uniquely suited for dealing with literal fiery situations (and again, perhaps non-literal, being wise and all).

    Is any of that relatable though? Maybe not?
    I think just a sleek and pretty visual design for Jinyu would do well enough to be very appealing.
    Because the koi fish look is sleek.

  4. #4
    Ankoan are not happening so don't even bother thinking about those. They were specifically introduced as a race that had nearly been hunted to extinction by the naga and spending the remainder of their limited forces seeking revenge against Azshara. Blizzard specifically introduced them in this manner exactly because they don't want players to get their hopes up about Ankoan becoming an allied race. It's just not gonna happen.

    As for Jinyu, they could start by making a female model and have them be able to wear gear. Jinyu in their current state are not fit to be playable and would frankly need a major redesign.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    Ankoan are not happening so don't even bother thinking about those. They were specifically introduced as a race that had nearly been hunted to extinction by the naga and spending the remainder of their limited forces seeking revenge against Azshara. Blizzard specifically introduced them in this manner exactly because they don't want players to get their hopes up about Ankoan becoming an allied race. It's just not gonna happen.

    As for Jinyu, they could start by making a female model and have them be able to wear gear. Jinyu in their current state are not fit to be playable and would frankly need a major redesign.
    If Jinyu kept the koi angle, that'd work pretty well for a female model I think. If they had hair, I think there's some mermaid themes that could go well with that. But Jinyu so far haven't had hair - maybe it'd look weird, not sure, I guess it depends how they made the females. The waveblade samurai thing was kind of neat, but I think the wise martial-artist monk kind of warrior was cooler. And personality-wise, I think the wise angle was a lot more appealing than the warrior angle too - seemed to fit them better. The deep-sea angler fish kind of mode didn't seem to work out too well. I liked the koi fish angle a lot more.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    Ankoan are not happening so don't even bother thinking about those. They were specifically introduced as a race that had nearly been hunted to extinction by the naga and spending the remainder of their limited forces seeking revenge against Azshara. Blizzard specifically introduced them in this manner exactly because they don't want players to get their hopes up about Ankoan becoming an allied race. It's just not gonna happen.

    As for Jinyu, they could start by making a female model and have them be able to wear gear. Jinyu in their current state are not fit to be playable and would frankly need a major redesign.
    To be fair, that was only one group of Ankoan, the ocean's a big place, there could be plenty of others.

    Plus, since we wrecked the naga, their weird hatchery area is up for grabs, so presumably a followup could be made about Ankoan restoring numbers with that.
    Twas brillig

  7. #7
    Epic! Pakheth's Avatar
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    I kinda like their stiff and dry nature. At least they don't have a "holier than thou"-attitude.

    Considering the Jinyu's peaceful nature I could very much see them in the Alliance as a beast race, they only need to make a female version.
    Fish doesn't really have the same type of dimorphism as mammals and is often more like birds where the male is the colorful one and the female is often the largest(birds of prey). Except in species where the males fight over mates. But I could see female Jinyu having smaller fins and maybe not as prominent 'whiskers' if we need to follow the stereotype of females being smaller. But please no boobs like the Sethrak and Arakkoa.

    I imagine racials having increased swim speed which would be nice.

    In short I would play a Jinyu.

  8. #8
    La la la la~ LemonDemonGirl's Avatar
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    There aren't any female models for them either

    The thing is with RL Angler/lantern fish (with is what the Ankoan subspecies are based off of), is that the females are much larger and more fierce looking. The males are tiny, and can barely eat on their own, and they pretty much exist so they can help the female grow eggs. So... if we DO get a female model, it'll have to be larger and more scarier looking because of the Sexual Dimorphism in RL fish. It's the same with Praying Mantises too
    Last edited by LemonDemonGirl; 2020-07-21 at 10:15 AM.
    I don't play WoW anymore smh.

  9. #9
    Yay for Jinyu. Thought they were cool and would love a Jinyu shammy.

    Ankoan, the voice and dialogue were so bad it out me off the race. I feel like the idiots want to kill themselves sometimes - no wonder they need oour help
    BASIC CAMPFIRE for WARCHIEF UK Prime Minister!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    Ankoan are not happening so don't even bother thinking about those. They were specifically introduced as a race that had nearly been hunted to extinction by the naga and spending the remainder of their limited forces seeking revenge against Azshara. Blizzard specifically introduced them in this manner exactly because they don't want players to get their hopes up about Ankoan becoming an allied race. It's just not gonna happen.

    As for Jinyu, they could start by making a female model and have them be able to wear gear. Jinyu in their current state are not fit to be playable and would frankly need a major redesign.
    As are the small number of void elves who were a small faction of blood elves but are now a big allied race. There are probably more Ankoan than avoid elves by lore reasons. Void elves were elves studying the void and there wouldn’t have been that many

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Unlimited Power View Post
    Ankoan are not happening so don't even bother thinking about those. They were specifically introduced as a race that had nearly been hunted to extinction by the naga and spending the remainder of their limited forces seeking revenge against Azshara. Blizzard specifically introduced them in this manner exactly because they don't want players to get their hopes up about Ankoan becoming an allied race. It's just not gonna happen.

    As for Jinyu, they could start by making a female model and have them be able to wear gear. Jinyu in their current state are not fit to be playable and would frankly need a major redesign.
    Did you people not learn already that if the community wills it and strong enough, Blizzard will make it happen? That aside, I don't think Jinyu/Ankoan are wanted strongly enough so I doubt they will happen. But not because of some lore reason. We already saw those don't work with High Elves, Demon Hunters and many other races and classes before them.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    Did you people not learn already that if the community wills it and strong enough, Blizzard will make it happen? That aside, I don't think Jinyu/Ankoan are wanted strongly enough so I doubt they will happen. But not because of some lore reason. We already saw those don't work with High Elves, Demon Hunters and many other races and classes before them.
    Well, that's part of what we're here for, to explore what we could tweak or expand on to make them more interesting.


    Action: I think it'd be interesting to explore their very zen/calm/quiet pride and wrath, a scene with a Jinyu/Ankoan drowning a demon or something very calmly.

    Lore: Jinyu and Ankoan have both been cut off from the world for a long time, it'd be cool to explore what their last contacts were like... or how they adapt to having new ties to the Alliance.
    Twas brillig

  13. #13
    No. No Jyniu or Ankoan. There are better choices.

    Sethrak and Saberon come to mind.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    No. No Jyniu or Ankoan. There are better choices.

    Sethrak and Saberon come to mind.
    Sethrak, despite the hype, would be a hard fit for the Alliance. They occupy a chunk of the Zandalari's island, AND the same zone as the Vulpera. They have a modest cultural connection to the Zandalari now that the devoted are back in power, and don't fill any particular niche on the Alliance.


    Saberon are... well a much blanker slate, they're barely capable of talking in most of WoD's questing, but frankly the Alliance already has Worgen for a bestial race.


    Jinyu or Ankoan have a more introspective culture and existing ties to the Pandaren and to a lesser extent the Night Elves and Kul'tirans.
    Twas brillig

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Well, that's part of what we're here for, to explore what we could tweak or expand on to make them more interesting.


    Action: I think it'd be interesting to explore their very zen/calm/quiet pride and wrath, a scene with a Jinyu/Ankoan drowning a demon or something very calmly.

    Lore: Jinyu and Ankoan have both been cut off from the world for a long time, it'd be cool to explore what their last contacts were like... or how they adapt to having new ties to the Alliance.
    If you work on a concept hard enough, it will eventually become interesting enough, yes. I am all for more variety, but there are so many other races that I would take sooner than the Jinyu/Ankoan. For starters, races with unique models and not another night elf reskin.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Shinrael View Post
    If you work on a concept hard enough, it will eventually become interesting enough, yes. I am all for more variety, but there are so many other races that I would take sooner than the Jinyu/Ankoan. For starters, races with unique models and not another night elf reskin.
    Definitely a valid argument, and I encourage you to make arguments for those other races, or ideas on what they could change on the Jinyu/Ankoan skeleton or model to make them a bit more distinct.
    Twas brillig

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Definitely a valid argument, and I encourage you to make arguments for those other races, or ideas on what they could change on the Jinyu/Ankoan skeleton or model to make them a bit more distinct.
    Well, a unique model for starters would be a big plus for me. I am not that much of a fan of aquatic races, but currently they simply stand no chance for me, as if I have to choose between a night elf and a jinyu, the Night Elves have so much stronger aesthetic build-up. However, if they have a unique model, even if their culture and lore aren't as rich as say the Night Elves, I would still be interested in them the way I am interested in the High Elves for alliance for example - as they bring one of my favourite looking models to my preferred faction.

    Other than that - well, yeah, more lore, more about their connection with the water, their origins, their relationship with the Naga and the murlocs and the Pandaren.

  18. #18
    I don't even remember The Ankoan very well, considering I spent so little time in Nazjatar due to how disappointing that ended up being. That said...



    Even for "monster race", they're really ugly, and not scary looking ugly cool, but just deep sea ugly. Can you imagine the customization options? "Um, do I want to look deep sea purple ugly, deep sea burgundy ugly, or like a Giant Spider Crab smacked me in the face with an anchor and I landed face first into a crack on the ocean floor where some lava seeped in from the Earth's core that melted my nose into my mouth?"



    With that said, Jinyu were fleshed out as a race people actually enjoyed interacting with and could see themselves playing with a myriad of themes, from samurai to wise lore masters. I'd actually be interested in seeing Jinyu interact with other races and contribute politically to Alliance issues. They just need a female model and re-work of the male model to be playable.



    Plus, it would satisfy all the smart asses that say they want playable Murlocs when there's a "what playable race would you like next?" discussion seeing as Jinyu evolved from Murlocs if I remember correctly.

    FEMALE JINYU fan art

    Last edited by Kyphael; 2020-07-22 at 02:25 AM.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Sethrak, despite the hype, would be a hard fit for the Alliance. They occupy a chunk of the Zandalari's island, AND the same zone as the Vulpera. They have a modest cultural connection to the Zandalari now that the devoted are back in power, and don't fill any particular niche on the Alliance.


    Saberon are... well a much blanker slate, they're barely capable of talking in most of WoD's questing, but frankly the Alliance already has Worgen for a bestial race.


    Jinyu or Ankoan have a more introspective culture and existing ties to the Pandaren and to a lesser extent the Night Elves and Kul'tirans.
    I thought your point was you wanted a more feral race. Jinyu and Ankoan are not feral at all. Thus my sugestions. They are both hippies tbh.

    As for the Sethrak, it is easily solved. Can be the remnant of the faithless that now have nowhere to go. Also, the Vulpera are pretty random and now that they are in, they kind of need an antagonist to be relevant in the story.
    They could be accepted into the alliance by request of the faithful, which had a favorable encounter with them by saving their leader.

    The saberon would fit cause they are similar to the worgen. A rig that hasnt been used for an allied race.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-07-22 at 02:28 AM.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Skytotem View Post
    Saberon are... well a much blanker slate, they're barely capable of talking in most of WoD's questing, but frankly the Alliance already has Worgen for a bestial race.
    Saberon should definitely go on The Horde if they're ever introduced as playable, I wouldn't want them in The Alliance. What would be the point? Worgen fit the feral race niche perfectly already, I don't want budding Worgen/Saberon, I want to see them tearing each other apart in a future Alliance/Horde conflict if we're stuck with that endless hamster wheel of soap opera PVP lore.

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