PvP testing on Beta is open: discussion

[Fantazma]

You need to play and understand your class better.

Dude, I've been a casual PVP rogue since 2012 ... and although I'm not in the top 100 best rogue in the world ... I think I understand a little bit of the class. I got a 2000+ rating in legion season-2 (which is not amazing. I just did it to get the elite set) and my partner didn't have to do everything in the arena. I helped a little.
So don't worry about it. I do understand how my class works ..... and I also know that almost all classes today have the skills to completely disable a rogue. Of course there are GREAT rogues out there and they make videos killing everyone. But they are like 0.01% of the rogue player base. I assure you that the vast majority of us can only get an annoying opener with a little stun ... and realizing that it didn't even scratch you ... trigger vanish, sprint and go screaming in the chat.

[EllieNora]

Dude, I've been a casual PVP rogue since 2012 ... and although I'm not in the top 100 best rogue in the world ... I think I understand a little bit of the class. I got a 2000+ rating in legion season-2 (which is not amazing. I just did it to get the elite set) and my partner didn't have to do everything in the arena. I helped a little.
So don't worry about it. I do understand how my class works ..... and I also know that almost all classes today have the skills to completely disable a rogue. Of course there are GREAT rogues out there and they make videos killing everyone. But they are like 0.01% of the rogue player base. I assure you that the vast majority of us can only get an annoying opener with a little stun ... and realizing that it didn't even scratch you ... trigger vanish, sprint and go screaming in the chat.

No offence but I played Rogue in Legion, having never touched the class before (had always done 3s as Hunter and Monk), I queued with two mates as triple rogue and we were 2k in a day from just repeatedly opening on healers using every cd, globalling them and then rinse repeat until our MMR was too high for that to reliably work.

[Sunslayer]

Dude, I've been a casual PVP rogue since 2012 ... and although I'm not in the top 100 best rogue in the world ... I think I understand a little bit of the class. I got a 2000+ rating in legion season-2 (which is not amazing. I just did it to get the elite set) and my partner didn't have to do everything in the arena. I helped a little.
So don't worry about it. I do understand how my class works ..... and I also know that almost all classes today have the skills to completely disable a rogue. Of course there are GREAT rogues out there and they make videos killing everyone. But they are like 0.01% of the rogue player base. I assure you that the vast majority of us can only get an annoying opener with a little stun ... and realizing that it didn't even scratch you ... trigger vanish, sprint and go screaming in the chat.

Give me a fight, I'll walk you through how you never lose it if you have CDs. I've been fighting Rogues for 13 years. So, tell me which class you can't either beat or avoid losing every...single...time. you should never, as Rogue lose a 1v1.
There is no excuse. Rogues are absurd.
Yes, Rogues can be killed, but never if you have CDs.

[Soisoisoi]

Give me a fight, I'll walk you through how you never lose it if you have CDs. I've been fighting Rogues for 13 years. So, tell me which class you can't either beat or avoid losing every...single...time. you should never, as Rogue lose a 1v1.
There is no excuse. Rogues are absurd.
Yes, Rogues can be killed, but never if you have CDs.

Feral Affinity Resto Druid stacking Vers to 99% with C&S so you can't do any damage, whilst he also out damages you.


/s

[Fantazma]

No offence but I played Rogue in Legion, having never touched the class before (had always done 3s as Hunter and Monk), I queued with two mates as triple rogue and we were 2k in a day from just repeatedly opening on healers using every cd, globalling them and then rinse repeat until our MMR was too high for that to reliably work.

As I said ... getting 2k of rating is not that incredible ... but yes ... in Legion (after they gave us the Dark Shadow talent) for a brief moment Rogue Subtlety was quite overpowered .... so something happened. Several consecutive nerfs for us while other classes won buffs.
Try to catch 2K of raiting nowadays with a subtlety rogue.
If you are not a genius .... Your comp kick you in the first fight.
Try to understand me ... I am not saying that the class is worthless ... but there is almost a folk fear of others when they think of the rogue. I promise you that NOWADAYS the rogue is not even 50% as dangerous as it was at the beginning of the Legion ...

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Yes, Rogues can be killed, but never if you have CDs.

Yes, we can vanish cloak and we don't die ... but I don't think running away means I won ...

[Sunslayer]

Feral Affinity Resto Druid stacking Vers to 99% with C&S so you can't do any damage, whilst he also out damages you.


/s

You can't stack vers anywhere near that anymore as Vers amps have been severely nerfed for PvP. Are you asking how you win or never lose? Are telling me you can't realize when you can't win and don't know how to get away as a Rogue? I thought Guardian affinity countered Rogues, not resto. Why give me an example that isn't possible?

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As I said ... getting 2k of rating is not that incredible ... but yes ... in Legion (after they gave us the Dark Shadow talent) for a brief moment Rogue Subtlety was quite overpowered .... so something happened. Several consecutive nerfs for us while other classes won buffs.
Try to catch 2K of raiting nowadays with a subtlety rogue.
If you are not a genius .... Your comp kick you in the first fight.
Try to understand me ... I am not saying that the class is worthless ... but there is almost a folk fear of others when they think of the rogue. I promise you that NOWADAYS the rogue is not even 50% as dangerous as it was at the beginning of the Legion ...

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Yes, we can vanish cloak and we don't die ... but I don't think running away means I won ...

How many other classes have the "Oh shit I can't win or, oh shit I screwed up my opener I'll just run and reset" option? Every other class just dies. You can choose to never lose. Can anyone else?

[EllieNora]

Try to catch 2K of raiting nowadays with a subtlety rogue.

Worst person to ask, our main comp is SV thug cleave. We were fine for Glad 26/27 and would have been fine for 28 but we all went back to playing Final Fantasy.

Rogue has always been the class that is as good as the person playing it even now where it's practically near braindead compared to how it used to be. Also Legion is a terrible reference because Exsanguinate was absolutely broken and took multiple nerfs to be even remotely balanced. The class being in past states of broken isn't an example you want to use when you're making a point of when the class is fine vs when it isn't.

And like Sunslayer said, you can reset the fight an endless amount of times. On SV I can't, if I fuck up my opener I die. Or I pray my Rogue is able to delay long enough so I can reset.

[Fantazma]

How many other classes have the "Oh shit I can't win or, oh shit I screwed up my opener I'll just run and reset" option? Every other class just dies. You can choose to never lose. Can anyone else?

Yes, we have the option "oh, shit I can't win ... so let go like a little girl" .... but I would change this to "oh, I pressed only 4 buttons and this poor rogue died before he managed to press vanish ... " (as some non-rogue classes do).

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Worst person to ask, our main comp is SV thug cleave. We were fine for Glad 26/27 and would have been fine for 28 but we all went back to playing Final Fantasy.

Ok pikaboomer. lol
No offense. I'm talking about normal ppl. haha.
If your first name is "Jonh" and your second name is "Rambo" ... you are not good for us to compare with other players.

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Also Legion is a terrible reference because Exsanguinate was absolutely broken

It seems that you were not warned that in patch 7.2.5 you should have abandoned Mult and continued with sub ...! Dark Shadow was a revolutionary talent and even I ... started to kill more than the covid.

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And like Sunslayer said, you can reset the fight an endless amount of times. On SV I can't, if I fuck up my opener I die. Or I pray my Rogue is able to delay long enough so I can reset.

And like I told Sunslayer, to have the ability to reset a fight ... it is at most an opportunity to watch DH trigger spectral sight and be hunted, scream and cry. lol

[Stormspellz]

i know your not advocating for the legion templates
but i think they were ideal for balance
but ended up being very boring

templates in concept is great, but the implementation was a train wreck. Scaling combined with pvp talents boggles the mind of stupidly. Ideally everyone has their template, it doesn't scale in rated pvp, and honor talents are there for stat customization and adding pvp effects to already existing skills but never pvp only skills- if a spec needs a skill to be "complete" in pvp then it should be part of its base kit and not a damn pvp talent.

[deenman]

Venthyr teleport is ridiculously strong in arena. Shadowlands arena is gonna be a lot like League of Legends. Everyone has a flash and it will get nerfed and nerfed again.

Gonna be real fun a month or two into the expansion when the main reason to pick your covenant is nerfed to the ground

well,im not to worried,im pretty sure they will give free coven swaps when one is nerfed,like how they would do talent resets or azerite cost resets

[Luxeley]

I'd go a step further and say, deactivate PvE trinkets as well and lower PvE gear ilevel in rated PvP.

I agree with you 100%, but it's not going to happen. Ridiculously OP Pve trinkets have been showing up Pvp for years. From my personal XP I remember OP pve trinkets back in Cata and in every xpac going forward, including BFA. In other words they've repeated the same mistake in pvp for years (at least 10 years)and did little or nothing to change things. What makes you think they'll actually deactivate Pve Trinkets in rated pvp or any aspec of PVP.

[arandomuser]

templates in concept is great, but the implementation was a train wreck. Scaling combined with pvp talents boggles the mind of stupidly. Ideally everyone has their template, it doesn't scale in rated pvp, and honor talents are there for stat customization and adding pvp effects to already existing skills but never pvp only skills- if a spec needs a skill to be "complete" in pvp then it should be part of its base kit and not a damn pvp talent.

yeah it was perfect for balance, but bad in terms of an RPG gameplay perspective
fun things are never going to be balanced i think this is also relevent to the covanent top end PVE perspective you could have templates in pve and theoritically everything would be balanced but
it would be boring

[deenman]

I agree with you 100%, but it's not going to happen. Ridiculously OP Pve trinkets have been showing up Pvp for years. From my personal XP I remember OP pve trinkets back in Cata and in every xpac going forward, including BFA. In other words they've repeated the same mistake in pvp for years (at least 10 years)and did little or nothing to change things. What makes you think they'll actually deactivate Pve Trinkets in rated pvp or any aspec of PVP.

wrath had the most op pve trinkets in arenas,it was so bad that even dps were using healing trinkets or humans with double dps trinkets,ofc im not counting the cata vial that was nerfed as that wasnt working as intended

[Luxeley]

wrath had the most op pve trinkets in arenas,it was so bad that even dps were using healing trinkets or humans with double dps trinkets,ofc im not counting the cata vial that was nerfed as that wasnt working as intended

Yep, Vial of Shadows and even Cunning of the Cruel from Cata. Fun story that I'm still pissed off about - back in Cata my Pvp guild broke up 1 win away from 1900 in Rbgs. As a full conquest Affliction Warlock, I couldn't get into a 1500 MMr RBG without Cunning of Cruel. So I killed a total of 140 bosses in Dragon Soul that dropped the trinket on 3 different toons on all 3 difficulty modes and still never got the trinket. It dropped a total of 3xs - no shot to get it 2xs, but the 3rd time in Regular Mode I rolled a 94 in a pug and someone else rolled a 97.

To this day I still refuse to do any kind of Pvp that forces me into Pve to be competitive, so in other words, needless to day I barely played Pvp at all in BFA.

[deenman]

Yep, Vial of Shadows and even Cunning of the Cruel from Cata. Fun story that I'm still pissed off about - back in Cata my Pvp guild broke up 1 win away from 1900 in Rbgs. As a full conquest Affliction Warlock, I couldn't get into a 1500 MMr RBG without Cunning of Cruel. So I killed a total of 140 bosses in Dragon Soul that dropped the trinket on 3 different toons on all 3 difficulty modes and still never got the trinket. It dropped a total of 3xs - no shot to get it 2xs, but the 3rd time in Regular Mode I rolled a 94 in a pug and someone else rolled a 97.

To this day I still refuse to do any kind of Pvp that forces me into Pve to be competitive, so in other words, needless to day I barely played Pvp at all in BFA.

damn thats some crazy bad luck,i remember getting the 410 pretty fast as shadow last time i loved shadow was in cata

[Luxeley]

damn thats some crazy bad luck,i remember getting the 410 pretty fast as shadow last time i loved shadow was in cata

I loved Shadow in WOD - pvp side of the game. It was a lot of fun in Cata too, but I had some serious mana issues cause I dispel quite a bit in pvp.

[Soisoisoi]

You can't stack vers anywhere near that anymore as Vers amps have been severely nerfed for PvP. Are you asking how you win or never lose? Are telling me you can't realize when you can't win and don't know how to get away as a Rogue? I thought Guardian affinity countered Rogues, not resto. Why give me an example that isn't possible?

/s

I was being daft

[Sunslayer]

wrath had the most op pve trinkets in arenas,it was so bad that even dps were using healing trinkets or humans with double dps trinkets,ofc im not counting the cata vial that was nerfed as that wasnt working as intended

What was the most absurd trinket from Wrath? Deathbringers will, if I remember correctly.

[deenman]

What was the most absurd trinket from Wrath? Deathbringers will, if I remember correctly.

deathbringer was amazing yeah,i think it was by far the most ninjad item in pugs,then you had the double spell dps trinkets both my arena partners would use (lock and shadow),i was a holy pala so we could afford to go full dps as all 3 of us could dispel,i had bubbles and immune aura it was a fun comp

but the most op trinket had to be the healing bauble one,it was a trinket you clicked and it could heal for a pretty big ammount,it was good for healers cause you could use it if silenced,but even dps could use it,they even had full teams use it at the arena tornuments