The Long Boy - soon to be retired AH mount

[Esploratore]

I wonder how the new realm connections will stir up things with the prices on the BMAH in general. We will have less BMAHs, items will be more scarce. Or.. will they buff the pop up rate of bmah mounts? (doubt it) Will they release the longboi with shadowlands or just later to generate hype/"stress"? Etcetc. So many variables..

I would think they'd put it on BMAH immediately, usually they do that, but you're right with connections and it's a scenario I considered: until they started the new connections, so really not long ago, we had 107 realms in europe and 16 in russia, I believe the number of european realms will go down to something like 60 and russian to something like 8-9, so we will have less items up on a given day obviously, and there might be a little more competition.

Even so, I hope that poster who said today that having a starting bid of 5 mil defies the point of BMAH is right, cause I'm pretty sure at least 2,5-3 is achievable with a standard BMAH starting price, and pretty soon too, just like it was possible to get the old zg raptor for 1,269 mil the 3rd day of legion, which is when the BMAH cap got increased, so that auctions could for the first time got past 1 mil and reach 10.

I have no doubt that on high pops it could go for gold cap, cause there's a lot of gold around there, maybe someone could've changed his mind and therefore missed the chance when it was on vendor for 5, but on lower (or due to connection medium ones) I'm pretty confident that players themselves won't make the price skyrocket, only blizzard depending on their starting bid choice.

And then again just need once where players don't bid like crazy to be worth it, so not really worried about what players do on this matter, just blizzard.

[ReVnX]

It should start at 5M in the BMAH

[Azerate]

I mean obv that's not going to happen lol
Pretty sure there are crazy people who would actually sue over this (baited to pay IRL money for the token, then disabled AH). Doesn't matter if they are right it not, simply not with the hassle.
But then again Blizzard is also still pushing for Pathfinder, GCD changer and Master Looter, despite overwhelmingly negative geedback, so peehaps they are actually enjoying the hassle.

Pathfinder has as many supporters as enemies. Some people even claim it's a EU vs. NA thing, with NA being the entitled bunch who want flying out right, and EU being in favor for things to do in the game and get rewarded. Now I do not know whether that is the case, but I certainly don't know many people who are against pathfinder personally.

Master Looter is only getting "overwhelmingly negative feedback" from top mythic guilds. Most people are in favor of it, because it works in favor of them in most cases. Even if you have a psycho raid leader who wants to police people's items, in the end he has to ask them to comply, because the item is theirs once its looted. Same for GCD changes - most people don't really care about those.

[dcc626]

Yeah, it's ok to be rich, don't worry. Keep bending over. Thanks

i have a friend going into shadowlands with 40mil+ gold. pays for 2 accounts, thats it. no tokens. dont have to bend over for gold. just had to be playing during wod/legion where having 15+ max toons meant 5-6 figures of gold a day.

[goldlock]

i have a friend going into shadowlands with 40mil+ gold. pays for 2 accounts, thats it. no tokens. dont have to bend over for gold. just had to be playing during wod/legion where having 15+ max toons meant 5-6 figures of gold a day.

I mean im closing in on ten million myself from sale runs but lets not pretend this isn't a mount and a situation designed soloy to hook in some whales buying wow tokens.

[Segus1992]

I mean im closing in on ten million myself from sale runs but lets not pretend this isn't a mount and a situation designed soloy to hook in some whales buying wow tokens.

I don't know how much truth there is to that compared to it just being a gold sink for the rich.

I mean, I'd personally buy gold to get a longboi if it was <=1 mil, and I know others who would too - but I can't imagine there are many who would at 5 mil. If it was to sell tokens the price would be set to entice the average spending player rather than the craziest of whales, I feel.

That said, it's impossible to view any situation where gold is very valuable as innocent by Blizzard - regardless of their actual intent. But that's the nature of a service like the token.

[goldlock]

I don't know how much truth there is to that compared to it just being a gold sink for the rich.

I mean, I'd personally buy gold to get a longboi if it was <=1 mil, and I know others who would too - but I can't imagine there are many who would at 5 mil. If it was to sell tokens the price would be set to entice the average spending player rather than the craziest of whales, I feel.

If its a gold sink it doesn't make sense for it to be timed... Wrath mammoths combined are a larger gold sink in the game then longboys due to the volume they are bought at (an educated guess I admit).

There isn't a reason for this to be timed otherwise and I have some buyers who purchase multiple wow tokens a week for carries. While it is a absurd amount of money to spend to me there are people who do buy things like this... usually problem gamblers.

[Segus1992]

If its a gold sink it doesn't make sense for it to be timed... Wrath mammoths combined are a larger gold sink in the game then longboys due to the volume they are bought at (an educated guess I admit).

There isn't a reason for this to be timed otherwise and I have some buyers who purchase multiple wow tokens a week for carries. While it is a absurd amount of money to spend to me there are people who do buy things like this... usually problem gamblers.

It wasn't initially intended to be timed, mind you. They decided to remove it because they regret the decision to put an AH on it. Putting it on the BMAH is going to drastically reduce the availability of it, even if the price ends up being gold cap.

I don't think any of this is entirely innocent, but I do think it's possible - they added a gold sink mount, realised it was too good, wanted to remove it, but realised they'd get too much shit if it was excluded from the BMAH. Likely that it's entirely innocent? Not very. But even if it was, nobody would see it that way because of the token.

And yes, I'm aware people DO spend crazy amounts of money on games, but I don't think appeasing to that extreme minority is the best way to make money. There's a reason Walmart makes more money than Rolls Royce (and other luxury cars), for instance (not a perfect comparison but you get the idea).

Again, not saying that any of this is what their goals or intents were, I'm just saying that if I wanted to make people buy more tokens, I wouldn't make it a 500€ barrier.

[goldlock]

It wasn't initially intended to be timed, mind you. They decided to remove it because they regret the decision to put an AH on it. Putting it on the BMAH is going to drastically reduce the availability of it, even if the price ends up being gold cap.

I don't think any of this is entirely innocent, but I do think it's possible - they added a gold sink mount, realised it was too good, wanted to remove it, but realised they'd get too much shit if it was excluded from the BMAH. Likely that it's entirely innocent? Not very. But even if it was, nobody would see it that way because of the token.

And yes, I'm aware people DO spend crazy amounts of money on games, but I don't think appeasing to that extreme minority is the best way to make money. There's a reason Walmart makes more money than Rolls Royce (and other luxury cars), for instance (not a perfect comparison but you get the idea).

Again, not saying that any of this is what their goals or intents were, I'm just saying that if I wanted to make people buy more tokens, I wouldn't make it a 500€ barrier.

I think its a "harmless" way to make money. The one big taboo blizzard is afraid of breaking is selling power and you can argue a mount like the long buy is selling power (also could be a botters dream if you can teach them to post sought after transmog).

By shuffling it around gold sales you get around that sticky dilemma you can say to the players " its just gold!" rather then free bag space for raiders and a powerful world tool.

Now I don't know if the average player will play the game long enough for the mount to pay for itself but if the mammoth is anything to go buy there is a chance it could with inflation.

I really do believe they went after the 1 in a thousand person who would dump a ton of money into the game to get it.

[Segus1992]

I think its a "harmless" way to make money. The one big taboo blizzard is afraid of breaking is selling power and you can argue a mount like the long buy is selling power (also could be a botters dream if you can teach them to post sought after transmog).

By shuffling it around gold sales you get around that sticky dilemma you can say to the players " its just gold!" rather then free bag space for raiders and a powerful world tool.

Now I don't know if the average player will play the game long enough for the mount to pay for itself but if the mammoth is anything to go buy there is a chance it could with inflation.

I really do believe they went after the 1 in a thousand person who would dump a ton of money into the game to get it.

Yep, buying gold is definitely the closest Blizzard can get to selling power without actually selling power, and the only reason it skirts the line is because "it was always possible to".

I do think that if the token wasn't a thing, long boi would've been allowed to stay because of the reasons you mention - the token makes it seem malevolent rather than a reward for playing the AH game for a long time.

[goldlock]

Yep, buying gold is definitely the closest Blizzard can get to selling power without actually selling power, and the only reason it skirts the line is because "it was always possible to".

I do think that if the token wasn't a thing, long boi would've been allowed to stay because of the reasons you mention - the token makes it seem malevolent rather than a reward for playing the AH game for a long time.

It is the way of things. I think it is less about people who play the AH but rather trying to get even more money out of the ever increasing services industry of wow. Carries are the new farming for high end players and its all thanks to the token. It used to be almost unheard of wow players to sell heroic (or normal pre wod) runs for gold but now its so common its cluttering trade with vision carries and dungeons carries.

This new industry is mostly powered by the token ( I would say personally only 1 in 10 buyers I sell to are a alt of a carrier or a ah mongrel) Blizzard has managed to sneak in pay to win into their game under the noses of most players who would of screamed the loudest against it by obfuscating it with a middle man.

I think in all honestly the mount was aimed at three groups in order from largest to smallest. 1) the whales 2) the carry sellers 3) the ah mongrels.

[Esploratore]

Btw, there are news regarding realm connections (in before I'm accused to be off topic, it's VERY relevant to the AH mount): blizzard is being very aggressive with connections, they had announced a russian high pop (galakrond) with 2 very low pops (deepholm-razuvius), thereby making a high pop realm, it has been delayed but they just announced a connection between a german low pop group (mal'ganis, tarear ecksenkessel or something, I'm not german) and one of the biggest german realms, blackhand, it's marked as full at all times, this means there are gonna be several low pop realms that end up becoming a part of full realms.

Surely you're all familiar with realms like draenor or silvermoon EU, or stormrage or tichondrius US, it looks like we're getting more of those with these connections, and this could have a huge impact on the AH mount decision, we'll have to monitor the situation till connections are all done (assuming they're done by bfa) and if we only end up with megaclusters of big realms and no more small ones, buying the mount from vendor for 5 mil might be the better choice, cause I'm pretty sure on big realms it would likely go for more, no matter the starting bid.

[themaster24]

Yep, buying gold is definitely the closest Blizzard can get to selling power without actually selling power, and the only reason it skirts the line is because "it was always possible to".

I do think that if the token wasn't a thing, long boi would've been allowed to stay because of the reasons you mention - the token makes it seem malevolent rather than a reward for playing the AH game for a long time.

See, I think the first sentence misses the important nuance between WoW tokens and what it's often compared to (buying currency in P2W games). Without going into too much detail, there is only 1 token (not multiple tiers and "best deals"), and the value is, generally speaking, determined by the players. Blizz also isn't adding gold into the system, but facilitating trade amongst players. These may seem insignificant, but they make a pretty big deal in the grand scheme of things when trying to say that blizz is or is close to "selling power" (not to mention that any power you would then buy from trading your token for gold is once again at the whim of other players, no the game system/blizz itself).

For the second sentence, I doubt it. They said they regret having a mount with the AH attached to it, but know players would riot if it was outright never available again (since they pretty much never do that for mounts). Hence, the BMAH, and over a years notice of the impending vendor removal. I know people want to demonize blizz, but it's highly unlikely their motivation for this was to "sell tokens".

It is the way of things. I think it is less about people who play the AH but rather trying to get even more money out of the ever increasing services industry of wow. Carries are the new farming for high end players and its all thanks to the token. It used to be almost unheard of wow players to sell heroic (or normal pre wod) runs for gold but now its so common its cluttering trade with vision carries and dungeons carries.

This new industry is mostly powered by the token ( I would say personally only 1 in 10 buyers I sell to are a alt of a carrier or a ah mongrel) Blizzard has managed to sneak in pay to win into their game under the noses of most players who would of screamed the loudest against it by obfuscating it with a middle man.

I think in all honestly the mount was aimed at three groups in order from largest to smallest. 1) the whales 2) the carry sellers 3) the ah mongrels.

I greatly disagree with this take. Here's my opinion.

Firstly, there's nothing in this game that can create "whales". I don't think people realize what whales are in this kind of context. Whales are players who spend so much money that they make up an overwhelming amount of revenue for a game, often to the point that some developers will cater their game to them and give them special treatment. I had an old friend who spent $50k in a year on a Clash of clans kind of game, and he would literally email the company when, say his base got attacked, and they would just restore everything for him. That's a whale.

Carries also aren't even remotely new, they've existed since vanilla. However, it is obvious that they are more lucrative than they have been in the past ever since the introduction of a guaranteed mount drop or a vanishing title/achievement (which started well before the wow token). The bigger difference is that more guilds are participating than they have in the past, contributing to more visibility. This furthermore dispels the notion that "Blizz introduced P2W right under our noses", as a.) gold has always been purchasable, b.) gold has always been used to facilitate these kinds of activities, and c.) they are actions undertaken by players and the game/blizz in any way.

Lastly, no, this mount, and all the mounts like it in the past, were designed literally as gold sinks. They got extremely expensive because WoD (and legion to a similar extent) generated an absolutely absurd amount of gold for some players. It's just like the 3Mil spider mount from and argus warframe from Argus. It's also why blizz introduced a load pricey mounts in BfA.

I could very well be wrong, and blizz devs sit around thinking about sneaky ways to make people buy more WoW tokens. However, when I look at WoW token data, and their overall actions, I just can't find anything to justify believing it's as nefarious as people want it to be.

[Hellobolis]

they can put it at 1 copper, as long as its under 5m people will keep thinking they are saving money and will keep bidding.

but i'm sure almost all of them will just be snatched up for gold cap by people who didn't play in BFA.

[themaster24]

they can put it at 1 copper, as long as its under 5m people will keep thinking they are saving money and will keep bidding.

but i'm sure almost all of them will just be snatched up for gold cap by people who didn't play in BFA.

I'd say give it a year or so, and it will begin to come below 5mil, if not earlier. Hopefully I'm not wrong cause I want one, but no way I'm gonna get the kind of gold to get it at 5mil or gold cap lol

[goldlock]

See, I think the first sentence misses the important nuance between WoW tokens and what it's often compared to (buying currency in P2W games). Without going into too much detail, there is only 1 token (not multiple tiers and "best deals"), and the value is, generally speaking, determined by the players. Blizz also isn't adding gold into the system, but facilitating trade amongst players. These may seem insignificant, but they make a pretty big deal in the grand scheme of things when trying to say that blizz is or is close to "selling power" (not to mention that any power you would then buy from trading your token for gold is once again at the whim of other players, no the game system/blizz itself).

For the second sentence, I doubt it. They said they regret having a mount with the AH attached to it, but know players would riot if it was outright never available again (since they pretty much never do that for mounts). Hence, the BMAH, and over a years notice of the impending vendor removal. I know people want to demonize blizz, but it's highly unlikely their motivation for this was to "sell tokens".



I greatly disagree with this take. Here's my opinion.

Firstly, there's nothing in this game that can create "whales". I don't think people realize what whales are in this kind of context. Whales are players who spend so much money that they make up an overwhelming amount of revenue for a game, often to the point that some developers will cater their game to them and give them special treatment. I had an old friend who spent $50k in a year on a Clash of clans kind of game, and he would literally email the company when, say his base got attacked, and they would just restore everything for him. That's a whale.

Carries also aren't even remotely new, they've existed since vanilla. However, it is obvious that they are more lucrative than they have been in the past ever since the introduction of a guaranteed mount drop or a vanishing title/achievement (which started well before the wow token). The bigger difference is that more guilds are participating than they have in the past, contributing to more visibility. This furthermore dispels the notion that "Blizz introduced P2W right under our noses", as a.) gold has always been purchasable, b.) gold has always been used to facilitate these kinds of activities, and c.) they are actions undertaken by players and the game/blizz in any way.

Lastly, no, this mount, and all the mounts like it in the past, were designed literally as gold sinks. They got extremely expensive because WoD (and legion to a similar extent) generated an absolutely absurd amount of gold for some players. It's just like the 3Mil spider mount from and argus warframe from Argus. It's also why blizz introduced a load pricey mounts in BfA.

I could very well be wrong, and blizz devs sit around thinking about sneaky ways to make people buy more WoW tokens. However, when I look at WoW token data, and their overall actions, I just can't find anything to justify believing it's as nefarious as people want it to be.

I take it you also matched what they raised for the pvp tournament by buying the toy they then later pulled their money from?

Its always about getting more money from you. It simply is finding way to do it that doesn't enrage the playerbase since they triple dip profits.

[Cæli]

it will be on the BMAH. why are you saying it's retired in SL?

[Esploratore]

I'd say give it a year or so, and it will begin to come below 5mil, if not earlier. Hopefully I'm not wrong cause I want one, but no way I'm gonna get the kind of gold to get it at 5mil or gold cap lol

Yes, this was the choice I was trying too, and I'm still giving a look, didn't buy it from vendor yet, but did you notice the recent aggressive connections blizzard is doing in the EU?

It looks to me like they're making megaclusters, both in EU and US we currently have over 100 realms, if they're going this way it's gonna reduce the number of realms down to 25, all being full servers, and this might make it impossible to get the AH mount for less than 5 mil on BMAH.

I really didn't expect the connection program to be THAT aggressive.

[themaster24]

I take it you also matched what they raised for the pvp tournament by buying the toy they then later pulled their money from?

Its always about getting more money from you. It simply is finding way to do it that doesn't enrage the playerbase since they triple dip profits.

I remember that quite clearly, as they did exactly as stated. The problem was, everyone assumed what Blizzard was going to do, and assumed wrong. You can believe it was scummy, but they did literally what they said. IIRC, there was even fine print somewhere that stated that they were only going to put money in if 25% of sales did not reach the 500k minimum.

Did I like it? Not really, but I also kind of expected it since, as a DotA player, I see valve constantly say "BASE PRIZE POOL" instead of minimum. Plus, I would have bought the beacon anyway, love that damn thing.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, this was the choice I was trying too, and I'm still giving a look, didn't buy it from vendor yet, but did you notice the recent aggressive connections blizzard is doing in the EU?

It looks to me like they're making megaclusters, both in EU and US we currently have over 100 realms, if they're going this way it's gonna reduce the number of realms down to 25, all being full servers, and this might make it impossible to get the AH mount for less than 5 mil on BMAH.

I really didn't expect the connection program to be THAT aggressive.

I don't think it's going to have the kind of impact people think it will. Honestly, I think the total amount of players that have the gold to buy it for 5mil to gold cap right now, and aren't buying, is incredibly small. Plus any amount of players that will suddenly have that kind of gold after SL drops and suddenly want to buy it will also be small. The only reason I say a year at most is because I am assuming it won't show up super often. Again, this is my opinion, though.

[Esploratore]

I don't think it's going to have the kind of impact people think it will. Honestly, I think the total amount of players that have the gold to buy it for 5mil to gold cap right now, and aren't buying, is incredibly small. Plus any amount of players that will suddenly have that kind of gold after SL drops and suddenly want to buy it will also be small. The only reason I say a year at most is because I am assuming it won't show up super often. Again, this is my opinion, though.

True, I'm assuming it will show up just as often as other mounts, which means not often at all, especially if they so drastically reduce the number of realms that can have the mount up with connections.

And it's obviously a possibility even if there's a lot of people on high pops that occasionally it goes cheap, we'll have to see how connections pan out, even cause yes, they're being aggressive with them atm, but they're also failing\postponing a lot of them, I also haven't heard anything about the american connections going through today!

Edit: other than not heard anything, they just confirmed they had unforeseen problems, so delayed them, this leads to 16,6% success rate, every 6 connection attempts, 1 goes through!