Star Wars: John Favreau's Sequel Retcon Rumors [Discussion]

[PaladinSum]

This is just objectively false.

Kylo beats Rey, without any real effort at all, in their first encounter. She loses that fight, and it's not remotely a contest.
Rey also has a fair amount of experience fighting. She's had to survive in a rough-and-tumble scavver lifestyle. She's carrying that staff when we meet her for a reason, and she demonstrates her skill with it early on.
When Kylo and Rey face off again, Kylo has already been grievously wounded and the film makes a point of showing that he is literally bleeding out into the snow as they face off. Rey, however, is fresh and unharmed. That's what makes the difference, and the movie literally zooms in on the Kylo bleeding to make sure you haven't forgotten him taking a bowcaster shot to the gut, a shot that hits with the impact of a grenade, launching most targets through the air on impact. He's literally only alive because he's holding himself together with the Force.



About the only things she's shown having any real competence for are;
A> fighting. She's been fighting most of her life.
B> Mechanics. She was a scavver. That's literally what she's been doing her entire life. The main scene people pick on is with the Millenium Falcon, which isn't even new to Rey; she's literally been working on that ship personally before, which is how she knew it was a piece of junk in the first place.
C> Piloting. She's been dreaming of that her entire life, and farting around with the Falcon and sims. Why do we accept Luke's experience with farm equipment as being prep for flying an X-wing, but not this?
D> The Force. Which, canonically, is heavily instinctual and Force-capable people usually start using it without training, as children, which is literally why the Jedi try and get to them so young. Basically the only Force-capable person we see struggling with learning to use the Force is Luke himself, and even in the OT, that's presented as Luke's own personal issues, not any inherent difficulty. Literally, that the only reason Luke can't do it is because Luke doesn't believe in himself. That's literally the whole point of his time on Dagobah, with Yoda.

Question. Why was she easy to paralyze and then able to not only resist him but also mind read him in return moments later? And then, the very next day, she's his rival in power? And then a year later, she can barely match him but then dunks on a guy who can cripple a fleet with the force?

I don't even think Dragonball is that inconsistent with power levels.

[Lazuli]

The last 3 movies have many plot holes and nonsense in them and thats not even speaking of the horrendous story and terrible characters we are talking tons of legit issues and inconsistencies here. It would be nothing less than genius to remove these from any legitimate lore, but it was nothing less than retarded that they exist in the first place.

I think as long as they have favreau anything can happen cuz he's awesome.

[Ragedaug]

Question. Why was she easy to paralyze and then able to not only resist him but also mind read him in return moments later? And then, the very next day, she's his rival in power? And then a year later, she can barely match him but then dunks on a guy who can cripple a fleet with the force?

Basically this. There's no journey. No explanation of why she's so good at everything or why she went from being super easy to restrain in one scene to beating Kylo's mind probe in the next. No explanation to how she's not only instantly an expert pilot when they take the Falcon but is a better at fixing the Falcon than Han or Chewie or why she's an expert staff fighter as she easily defeats opponents who should be far more experienced than her.

Not all of her story points reflect the original Mary Sue, but there are definitely quite a few story points that do. Even JJ admitted that in the behind the scenes documentary, painting himself into a corner to make her a Palpatine, because he couldn't come up with any better reasons she's as powerful as she is.

Luke has arguably more piloting experience than Rey as well as mechanical training, as we are shown him deploying both skills at the beginning of A New Hope, yet Lucas correctly has Luke sound like a backwater hick asking questions about why Han isn't going to light speed and what not. Lucas makes an effort to show Luke is a kid who doesn't know much.

[Endus]

Question. Why was she easy to paralyze and then able to not only resist him but also mind read him in return moments later? And then, the very next day, she's his rival in power? And then a year later, she can barely match him but then dunks on a guy who can cripple a fleet with the force?

I don't even think Dragonball is that inconsistent with power levels.

The Force. Seriously, that's always the explanation in these films. Why was Anakin's growing fear and hatred not detected by other Jedi? The Force. Why does Anakin even exist, given that he doesn't have a biological father at all? The Force. How did Luke hit the exhaust port on the Death Star with basically zero training after turning off his guidance systems? The Force.

You're looking for metered, quantifiable hard rules for a concept that has always been presented as a soft concept that does whatever the writers need it to. The existence of various "powers" as a concept only exists, anachronistically, through trying to create such a hard ruleset for a concept that fundamentally refutes such limitations. Lucas never thought up separate Force "powers" for what Jedi could do. They were just vague ideas that worked as the story needed them to work. When a new ability was needed, bam, there it was, and it had always been possible.

"The Force is woo-woo and does whatever the writers need it to" has been the status quo since before "Star Wars" had "Episode IV: A New Hope" attached to it as a subtitle. Do I think that's silly and unsatisfying? A little. But it's how Star Wars has literally always been.

What next, complaining that lightsabers make no sense?

[qwerty123456]

The first order didn't become public until 29 aby. Until then they stayed mostly in shadows in the rim after fleeing the defeat at Jakku. No I didn't write the film and I'm not defensive. I'm just using the existing story to explain away your silly points of anger about the story.

We didn't see any of the first orders training facilities so why do you think there is nothing? You act like the first order can't do anything ever because they would need billions of resources, people, and whatever else excuse you want to use. Without accepting that they can do all of that the same way as anyone else in star wars. A thousand people can train more than a thousand troops. A hundred "people" were shown to breed the clone armies and yet you don't bat an eye.

Snoke was essentially a sith. Created by Sidious on a Sith world in order to rule over the First order a contigency plan set up by Sidious. A wayfinder was not need if you knew the way already. It was only needed to tell you how to get there. It is why each individual ship does not need a wayfinder. Why would Palpatine do anything? When he died he ordered his empire to be destroyed with the strongest fleeing to the Unknown regions to found the First Order. The dude was crazy. Maybe he thought a different approach to get a force user would work when he failed? Who knows. It doesn't make the story bad.

Hyperspace skipping does more harm for the narrative then all the other stuff you mentioned. If all ships can skip like that then why haven't they? Why can they instantly track and line up the random jumps of a ship? It clearly isn't that dangerous if random tie fighters can do it and survive. The "dangerous" part was just added to create an outrage scene.

They didn't officially announce themselves as the first order till then but they were very much active and were still remnants of the empire that the Galactic government completely ignored. They started disarming themselves a single month after the empires official defeat when they had waited several months before even attacking on Jakku. How does that make any sense?

And no Snoke was not essentially a sith. He was a darkside user but nothing close to being a sith. You need the exact path to travel to be able to leave exegol which is why the Sith Eternal Fleet couldn't just leave without a navigational beacon. Palpatine never died. He transferred his soul/spirit/whatever to an imperfect clone just before he would have died while falling down the shaft. He has been active since the end of the original trilogy which is completely stupid and completely negates peoples claim that Anakin was the chosen one bringing balance to the force when Palpatine literally wasn't even dead for a second.

They said hyperspace skipping was extremely dangerous and not just an every day thing you can/should do. And while I think its silly it still didn't change the entire narrative of the film series, create a sun eating magic homing missile planet destroyer as well as thousands of mini death star ships. If you can miniaturize death star tech anyone and their mother could potentially take over the galaxy now.

The third person perspective is not the same as characters in the fictional universe. We are talking the SW galaxy where there's systems were slavery and black market deals go on all the time. You don't see first world nations prioritizing every instance of villainry outside of its borders, why would you expect the same in the SW galaxy.
The attitude of the rich people in TLJ to the background noise of the FO and Resistance were very realistic. Hell there slaves under their nose and they could not care less.

In the prequels the the Jedi did not even know an entire army bigger than their own order was being made in their name. They were supposed be a little more in touch with reality with every one else. They didn't care about child slaves, nor did the Republic. The only reason they 'rescued' Anakin was because he was useful, his mother was left to die.

So of course a large government body would ignore the activities of the First Order, especially when those activities are way out in the backwoods of uncharted parts of the. When their actions don't even seem like they are on the scale of the Hutts. When the First Order has spies in the Republic downplaying the First Order and smearing anyone who attempts to ring an alarm.

If there any thing believable about SW its the way a large governing body ignores warlords as long as those warlords are far from their borders.

----------------------

Also I think you are asking why Imperials were dealt with after RotJ/Galactic Civil War? They were. Imperials and the Rebels/New Republic were dealing with them. They were killed by Palpatine loyalists, killed in insurgencies, jailed, or pardoned. There was the Battle of Jakku was sort of the official end of the Empire (except in Mandalorian there's at least one Imperial warlord left who doesn't appear to be with the First Order). The main part of the galaxy had no reason to suspect there any legit Imperials around, the First Order being a bunch of LARPers out in the galactic wasteland.

The Remnants of the empire fled to outside their territory but they still knew they were a threat. Slavery and shit happens on certain planets because its the culture of the planet and outside the jurisdiction of the Core Worlds. The large government body just completely ignoring the very people that was trying to kill them a month earlier is realistic? I could understand if they had watched the Imperials for a decade or so and didn't see any suspicious shit and so cut their military back but a single month was enough time for them to believe that they wouldn't regroup and attack again? They started to cut their military back by 90% after a single month of "peace" it wasn't a small group of pirates but the remnants of a Galaxy spanning Empire that enslaved nearly everything.

[PaladinSum]

The Force. Seriously, that's always the explanation in these films. Why was Anakin's growing fear and hatred not detected by other Jedi? The Force. Why does Anakin even exist, given that he doesn't have a biological father at all? The Force. How did Luke hit the exhaust port on the Death Star with basically zero training after turning off his guidance systems? The Force.

You're looking for metered, quantifiable hard rules for a concept that has always been presented as a soft concept that does whatever the writers need it to. The existence of various "powers" as a concept only exists, anachronistically, through trying to create such a hard ruleset for a concept that fundamentally refutes such limitations. Lucas never thought up separate Force "powers" for what Jedi could do. They were just vague ideas that worked as the story needed them to work. When a new ability was needed, bam, there it was, and it had always been possible.

"The Force is woo-woo and does whatever the writers need it to" has been the status quo since before "Star Wars" had "Episode IV: A New Hope" attached to it as a subtitle. Do I think that's silly and unsatisfying? A little. But it's how Star Wars has literally always been.

What next, complaining that lightsabers make no sense?

No. Going "Magic exists" is not a fucking excuse. Otherwise, there's no reason a force ghost army shouldn't have shown up to blast Palpatine and restrict his spirit since they can interact with the physical world. And Kylo shouldn't have died since they can heal each other. And Like and Leia shouldn't have died because they have the same force power that kept her from dying in TLJ. There are no rules, right?

Finn should be able to do everything Rey does because the Force. If you disagree, you undermine your own argument.

[rhorle]

They didn't officially announce themselves as the first order till then but they were very much active and were still remnants of the empire that the Galactic government completely ignored. They started disarming themselves a single month after the empires official defeat when they had waited several months before even attacking on Jakku. How does that make any sense

Because they fled to the Unknown regions. Which despite a lot of important things happening there is has an apt name for what the galaxy at large knows about it. The new republic didn't start disarming themselves a month after Jakku. But politics are politics and the different factions had different ideas on how to run things. Including some that were Imperial loyalists or liked the way the Galactic Empire ruled versus a the Republic. There is cannon story elements saying a month after the New Republic is still warning people to stay on High Alert and the fleets should remain "at war" despite no hostilities from the Imperial Remnants. So you really keep hyper focusing on a month when it doesn't apply at all.

There was also "peaceful" empire and those that fled the treaty and would later become the first order. You really don't seem willingly to accept that the Galaxy has politics and are not all blood thirsty savages. Or able to visualize how a government might be less militaristic after over throwing a galactic empire that was ruled through force and fear.

He had sith knowledge. He was created by Sith. Was a tool of a Sith. That is essentially Sith. And the Final Order fleet didn't need a navigational beacon to enter hyperspace. They were built with out atmospheric navigation systems. Entirely stupid. So they needed a signal to leave the planet. Its a plot hole but it has nothing to do with the wayfinders being required for any and all travel to or from the planet. We already know the story doesn't support your claims because of all the ships that came to aid the rebels. Who didn't have wayfinders but still managed to make the trip just fine because they had a map. The wayfinders were the map. Once you have the route you don't need the wayfinder to travel to or from.

Deathstar tech wasn't miniaturized. It was put into a planet and it required a special planet in order to function. Hyperspace skipping though was entirely a plot device for the cool factor. The falcon doesn't have some new tech. The tie fighters could instantly track and follow a random jump to a random location. If tracking tech like that exists it changes a lot about star wars. And about the First Order tech when the previously needed a giant ship with specialized equipment to track the hyperspace jumps. A hyperspace skip should have made it impossible to be tracked or followed because of picking random jumps.

[PACOX]

The Remnants of the empire fled to outside their territory but they still knew they were a threat. Slavery and shit happens on certain planets because its the culture of the planet and outside the jurisdiction of the Core Worlds. The large government body just completely ignoring the very people that was trying to kill them a month earlier is realistic? I could understand if they had watched the Imperials for a decade or so and didn't see any suspicious shit and so cut their military back but a single month was enough time for them to believe that they wouldn't regroup and attack again? They started to cut their military back by 90% after a single month of "peace" it wasn't a small group of pirates but the remnants of a Galaxy spanning Empire that enslaved nearly everything.

You keep mischaraterizing the disarming of the New Republic's fleet. It didn't actually happen until after the Battle of Jakku when the majority of the old Empire was dealt with. Even then the New Republic kept a sort of planetary police force within its borders to deal with any hold outs. We literally see that fleet in action in the Mandalorian. They got soft and blind sided after decades of peace, completely realistic in terms of the SW universe.

Come to think of it,the pre-Clone Wars Republic sort of operated under the same pretense. They did not have a a large unified Wat fighting fleet until Palpatine manufactured the reason to. Hell the Mandalorians were painfully pacifists. The Separatists would have easily achieved their goal if independence from the Republic had Palpatine not been in the background manipulating everything.

There was no large fleet before the Clone Wars so the naive but in-character Senate concluded there was no need one for one after because the cause of the Empire was a build up of the military in the first place. They weren't exactly wrong, just shortsighted. No one couldn't on the First Order having a super weapon except the 'paranoid war hawks like Leia'.

[Endus]

No. Going "Magic exists" is not a fucking excuse. Otherwise, there's no reason a force ghost army shouldn't have shown up to blast Palpatine and restrict his spirit since they can interact with the physical world. And Kylo shouldn't have died since they can heal each other. And Like and Leia shouldn't have died because they have the same force power that kept her from dying in TLJ. There are no rules, right?

Finn should be able to do everything Rey does because the Force. If you disagree, you undermine your own argument.

Dude, I realize it's a bad excuse.

It's also an excuse Star Wars has always deeply relied upon.

If this kind of excuse is enough to turn you off a story, then you shouldn't like Star Wars. At all. And of it. Not even Eps 4-6. Which is fine, please understand. I'm not arguing you should like Star Wars.

But complaining that the Force is Deus Ex Machina-ing things is like complaining that muggles don't notice magic in Harry Potter, or that the powers and corruptive influence of the One Ring are really never remotely explained in Lord of the Rings. That's just how things are, in those universes.

Lightsabers don't make sense, either. Why do stormtroopers wear what's clearly meant to be armor when literally any blaster hit to any part of the body seems to penetrate? How does hyperdrive work? How far apart are various planets? Why do so many people speak so many languages that the needs for a protocol droid as a translator seem completely useless for the most part, even though there's explicitly millions of languages? How did a 6-year old build a protocol droid out of scrap, as a slave? Why does tech not advance in any significant manner other than aesthetics for literally longer than the entire span of human history as we know it, in Star Wars? I could keep going. Nothing in this universe follows normal, reasonable rules. Expecting it to is . . . just complaining that Star Wars is Star Wars, rather than something completely different than Star Wars.

Also, dude, I think I mentioned in an earlier post that one of my personal rewrites for Ep 9 would've been to make Finn a Force wielder and have Rey train him, because it delivers on a few iconic scenes from earlier episodes and tries to give Finn a personal arc, since the whole "I'm an ex-stormtrooper" literally only mattered briefly in TLJ. I'm not defending how the sequel trilogy played out, and I've criticised a hell of a lot of it. But at a certain point, Star Wars is Star Wars, and Star Wars has literally always been flashy, faux-philosophical flashy-boomy sci-fi. It's spiritual predecessors aren't the thinky hard science fiction like Foundation or Dune, it's the pulp stuff like Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, or John Carter.

[PaladinSum]

Dude, I realize it's a bad excuse.

It's also an excuse Star Wars has always deeply relied upon.

If this kind of excuse is enough to turn you off a story, then you shouldn't like Star Wars. At all. And of it. Not even Eps 4-6. Which is fine, please understand. I'm not arguing you should like Star Wars.

But complaining that the Force is Deus Ex Machina-ing things is like complaining that muggles don't notice magic in Harry Potter, or that the powers and corruptive influence of the One Ring are really never remotely explained in Lord of the Rings. That's just how things are, in those universes.

Lightsabers don't make sense, either. Why do stormtroopers wear what's clearly meant to be armor when literally any blaster hit to any part of the body seems to penetrate? How does hyperdrive work? How far apart are various planets? Why do so many people speak so many languages that the needs for a protocol droid as a translator seem completely useless for the most part, even though there's explicitly millions of languages? How did a 6-year old build a protocol droid out of scrap, as a slave? Why does tech not advance in any significant manner other than aesthetics for literally longer than the entire span of human history as we know it, in Star Wars? I could keep going. Nothing in this universe follows normal, reasonable rules. Expecting it to is . . . just complaining that Star Wars is Star Wars, rather than something completely different than Star Wars.

Also, dude, I think I mentioned in an earlier post that one of my personal rewrites for Ep 9 would've been to make Finn a Force wielder and have Rey train him, because it delivers on a few iconic scenes from earlier episodes and tries to give Finn a personal arc, since the whole "I'm an ex-stormtrooper" literally only mattered briefly in TLJ. I'm not defending how the sequel trilogy played out, and I've criticised a hell of a lot of it. But at a certain point, Star Wars is Star Wars, and Star Wars has literally always been flashy, faux-philosophical flashy-boomy sci-fi. It's spiritual predecessors aren't the thinky hard science fiction like Foundation or Dune, it's the pulp stuff like Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, or John Carter.

Because the Force isn't the gigantic catch all you think it is. What do we have in a New Hope? Mind tricking the guards and aiming an important shot. Two small things in a sea of Luke and his friends relying on wits, skill and intellect.

The force should be subtle in what you can do with it and restrained when it's too powerful. I'm one of the people who acknowledges how dubious using the force to mess with people's minds and like when it gets called out. If it can do anything or you can use it Willy Nilly, you do end up asking "Why doesn't Obi Wan just do it to literally everyone like the MIB abuse the Neurolyzer?".

[Endus]

Because the Force isn't the gigantic catch all you think it is. What do we have in a New Hope? Mind tricking the guards and aiming an important shot. Two small things in a sea of Luke and his friends relying on wits, skill and intellect.

The force should be subtle in what you can do with it and restrained when it's too powerful. I'm one of the people who acknowledges how dubious using the force to mess with people's minds and like when it gets called out. If it can do anything or you can use it Willy Nilly, you do end up asking "Why doesn't Obi Wan just do it to literally everyone like the MIB abuse the Neurolyzer?".

The films literally do not agree with you on this. You're describing issues you have with Star Wars as an IP, not an inconsistency within Star Wars' canon.

Star Wars has literally always been flashy pulp science fiction. If you're expecting deeply complex worldbuilding and philosophy and consistent technological theorizing, you're in the wrong genre entirely.

You're not forced to like them, but describing why you do not like Star Wars as a series is not an argument that the newer films are somehow flawed entries in that canon.

[qwerty123456]

You keep mischaraterizing the disarming of the New Republic's fleet. It didn't actually happen until after the Battle of Jakku when the majority of the old Empire was dealt with. Even then the New Republic kept a sort of planetary police force within its borders to deal with any hold outs. We literally see that fleet in action in the Mandalorian. They got soft and blind sided after decades of peace, completely realistic in terms of the SW universe.

Come to think of it,the pre-Clone Wars Republic sort of operated under the same pretense. They did not have a a large unified Wat fighting fleet until Palpatine manufactured the reason to. Hell the Mandalorians were painfully pacifists. The Separatists would have easily achieved their goal if independence from the Republic had Palpatine not been in the background manipulating everything.

There was no large fleet before the Clone Wars so the naive but in-character Senate concluded there was no need one for one after because the cause of the Empire was a build up of the military in the first place. They weren't exactly wrong, just shortsighted. No one couldn't on the First Order having a super weapon except the 'paranoid war hawks like Leia'.

I'm not mischaracterizing I have stated dozens of times that they started disarming a month after the battle of Jakku. And mind you it took them several months before they even chose to launch the attack on Jakku. Why on earth would they think the remaining members of the Empire would instantly regroup and attack them if they ever were going to? "Although surviving Imperial forces retreated behind treaty-drawn boundaries in the Core Worlds and Inner Rim, the New Republic military was ordered to maintain its combat readiness until at least a month after the surrender.[9] "

Because they fled to the Unknown regions. Which despite a lot of important things happening there is has an apt name for what the galaxy at large knows about it. The new republic didn't start disarming themselves a month after Jakku. But politics are politics and the different factions had different ideas on how to run things. Including some that were Imperial loyalists or liked the way the Galactic Empire ruled versus a the Republic. There is cannon story elements saying a month after the New Republic is still warning people to stay on High Alert and the fleets should remain "at war" despite no hostilities from the Imperial Remnants. So you really keep hyper focusing on a month when it doesn't apply at all.

There was also "peaceful" empire and those that fled the treaty and would later become the first order. You really don't seem willingly to accept that the Galaxy has politics and are not all blood thirsty savages. Or able to visualize how a government might be less militaristic after over throwing a galactic empire that was ruled through force and fear.

He had sith knowledge. He was created by Sith. Was a tool of a Sith. That is essentially Sith. And the Final Order fleet didn't need a navigational beacon to enter hyperspace. They were built with out atmospheric navigation systems. Entirely stupid. So they needed a signal to leave the planet. Its a plot hole but it has nothing to do with the wayfinders being required for any and all travel to or from the planet. We already know the story doesn't support your claims because of all the ships that came to aid the rebels. Who didn't have wayfinders but still managed to make the trip just fine because they had a map. The wayfinders were the map. Once you have the route you don't need the wayfinder to travel to or from.

Deathstar tech wasn't miniaturized. It was put into a planet and it required a special planet in order to function. Hyperspace skipping though was entirely a plot device for the cool factor. The falcon doesn't have some new tech. The tie fighters could instantly track and follow a random jump to a random location. If tracking tech like that exists it changes a lot about star wars. And about the First Order tech when the previously needed a giant ship with specialized equipment to track the hyperspace jumps. A hyperspace skip should have made it impossible to be tracked or followed because of picking random jumps.

They said for the military to keep up for a month after the battle of Jakku. Then they were supposed to start the de-arming


Rey used Kylo Ren's wayfinder and transmitted her plotted course to the Resistance, allowing them to travel along her passage. It wasn't about getting there it was getting through to the planet. "Exegol's nearby space was littered with the remains of megafauna, resulting in a cloud of red gas and stardust to form before the world, posing a navigation barrier."

A sith wouldn't have told Kylo to use both the dark and light side of the force.

Did you even watch the films dude? I don't know why I keep responding to you when you constantly get stuff wrong. All the Star Destroyers of the Sith Eternal fleet had mini deathstar tech so they could blow up planets https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Axial_superlaser

[rhorle]

They said for the military to keep up for a month after the battle of Jakku. Then they were supposed to start the de-arming

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Mil...isarmament_Act

The de-militiarlization was proposed from the very moment the New Republic formed. They used it to help convince the Imperials to sign the peace treaty and because of the values the New Republic was standing for. Where the Chancellor didn't control military might. It didn't all occur with in a month of the end of the war. But did start there as Mon Mothma is also saying that they needed to stay vigilant of threats for a while after the treaty was signed. The resistence wasn't formed unil 28 ABY so there were still some Military strength and wasn't instantly done a month later. But again a month, or whatever time doesn't matter. They wanted to have a peace, and not military might, government. A stupid choice in hindsight but politics are politics.

No where has the lore stated a wayfinder is required to do in the moment calculations. It has only ever been needed to find the place when people don't know how to get there. You even contradict yourself by saying Rey could transmit the route with out each ship needing the wayfinder. Which means once a person travels there they can simply share the route. The Wayfinder, as you just stated, is simply for people that do not know how to get there.

The movies actually have her transmitting her path, as she takes it, to the Resistance. Finn literally says she is showing us the way as it cuts to shots of her navigating the space surrounding the planet. We know the path can't change otherwise the Sith Wayfinders would be useless if not constantly updated. So once you know the path you know it. Which is also how Kylo gets there. Since he destroyed the Deathstar Wayfinder, and Rey took his.

A Sith would certainly tell Kylo anything they need to in order to fulfill their goals. The question is did you watch the movies because Palapatine still had Anakin using the light side of the force while he was slowly corrupting him and guiding him to the dark side of the force.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Question. Why was she easy to paralyze and then able to not only resist him but also mind read him in return moments later? And then, the very next day, she's his rival in power? And then a year later, she can barely match him but then dunks on a guy who can cripple a fleet with the force?

I don't even think Dragonball is that inconsistent with power levels.

When they first meet rey is leaving in a rush because of the vision she had and isn’t in the state of mind needed to really process every thing that’s going on let alone how to use the force for the frist time.

When kylo is trying to read her she calms down a lot due to her not freshly being exposed to the force for the first time and him taking off his mask and talking to her a bit. Given that she’s his equal in strength it makes sense that in a better state of mind she’d be able to grasp the force even more so if what she did was oh the dark side which is incredibly likely.

Them fighting the first time is her being out matched by his skill even with him being injured until she lets the force take over.

There second fight in rise show cases that even while equal in power kylo just out skills her with her only getting a blow in due to kylo’s reaction to leia’s death.

Her killing plap was some dumb ass shit that doesn’t make any sense and is just a cope out because there writers were idiots.

Over all though with the context of the force from the previous movies/clone wars And the experience gape between the two of them her facing Kylo Make sense it’s only the palp thing that is mind boggling retarded.

- - - Updated - - -

Basically this. There's no journey. No explanation of why she's so good at everything or why she went from being super easy to restrain in one scene to beating Kylo's mind probe in the next. No explanation to how she's not only instantly an expert pilot when they take the Falcon but is a better at fixing the Falcon than Han or Chewie or why she's an expert staff fighter as she easily defeats opponents who should be far more experienced than her.

All of it excluding her piloting is explained in the first movie most of it obviously so.

She’s super easy to restrain because of how the force works and how freaked out she was from being first exposed to it in an active manor. She “beats” kylo’s mind probe because he doesn’t push with it at all after he finds out she’s force sensitive he literally leaves to go tell snoke as soon as she shows she can do the same.

She’s better at fixing the falcon as she was raised as a scav which is literally shown in her first scene and she worked at the place it was kept and was working on it coupled with Han and chewy being smugglers not engineers.

She doesn’t easily defeat kylo even with his multiple injury’s she’s on the back foot until he gives her an opening to use the force.

For all of Rey’s many faults (mostly in rise) these aren’t part of them all of these again exuding her piloting skills are shown and explained in the first movie.

[PaladinSum]

The films literally do not agree with you on this. You're describing issues you have with Star Wars as an IP, not an inconsistency within Star Wars' canon.

Star Wars has literally always been flashy pulp science fiction. If you're expecting deeply complex worldbuilding and philosophy and consistent technological theorizing, you're in the wrong genre entirely.

You're not forced to like them, but describing why you do not like Star Wars as a series is not an argument that the newer films are somehow flawed entries in that canon.

Nope. I'm not playing this game where you can't back this up. Surely, you can turn up a laundry list of the movie series doing what you claim since you actually didn't refute what I said.

[Fantomen]

The Force is woo-woo and does whatever the writers need it to" has been the status quo since before "Star Wars" had "Episode IV: A New Hope"

I challange you to tell me about a force power that is new for the prequeal, that did not exist in the orginal tirlogy.

[Endus]

Nope. I'm not playing this game where you can't back this up. Surely, you can turn up a laundry list of the movie series doing what you claim since you actually didn't refute what I said.

All you said was that you don't like Star Wars' method of storytelling.

I'm just holding you to apply that to the entire IP, not just the newer films.

I challange you to tell me about a force power that is new for the prequeal, that did not exist in the orginal tirlogy.

When Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn speed off like Sonic the Hedgehog;


When Anakin and Obi-Wan able to fight literally floating on debris in the middle of a lava field, without burning.
It's how Anakin survives multiple limbs being severed, again lying on barely-solid rock at the edge of a red-hot lava channel; that kind of resilience has to be based in the Force somehow.

I should also point out the insane level of acrobatics the prequels put into Force combat, compared to the OT, which at the very least uses powers only barely hinted at in the OT to a much greater degree, giving the fight scenes a wildly different character moving forward.

[PaladinSum]

All you said was that you don't like Star Wars' method of storytelling.

I'm just holding you to apply that to the entire IP, not just the newer films.



When Obi-Wan and Qui-Gonn speed off like Sonic the Hedgehog;


When Anakin and Obi-Wan able to fight literally floating on debris in the middle of a lava field, without burning.
It's how Anakin survives multiple limbs being severed, again lying on barely-solid rock at the edge of a red-hot lava channel; that kind of resilience has to be based in the Force somehow.

I should also point out the insane level of acrobatics the prequels put into Force combat, compared to the OT, which at the very least uses powers only barely hinted at in the OT to a much greater degree, giving the fight scenes a wildly different character moving forward.

I didn't say that, so, more ammo for the lieing pile.

That works in reverse. If it's not insane to survive the vacuum of space, heightened acrobatics is not a concern.

Lucas says that was an error. So it isn't the force. It's sloppy film making. Sloppy film making and wanting an epic finale explains why they can survive near lava and then Anakin catches fire like he was as wooden as his acting. And EMPALSUREC is the reason Anakin lives despite mass disfigurement. Medical science isn't the force.

Hey, remember when Anakin learned force heal when Palpatine told him about the concept of it? I mean, Rey only had to read about it and she could heal mortal wounds. What's Anakin's excuse for not instantly learning to heal?

[Lazuli]

I didn't say that, so, more ammo for the lieing pile.

That works in reverse. If it's not insane to survive the vacuum of space, heightened acrobatics is not a concern.

Lucas says that was an error. So it isn't the force. It's sloppy film making. Sloppy film making and wanting an epic finale explains why they can survive near lava and then Anakin catches fire like he was as wooden as his acting. And EMPALSUREC is the reason Anakin lives despite mass disfigurement. Medical science isn't the force.

Hey, remember when Anakin learned force heal when Palpatine told him about the concept of it? I mean, Rey only had to read about it and she could heal mortal wounds. What's Anakin's excuse for not instantly learning to heal?

Anakin isn't a stronk whamen so it makes sense he's too stoopid to learn force heal

[rhorle]

Lucas says that was an error. So it isn't the force. It's sloppy film making. Sloppy film making and wanting an epic finale explains why they can survive near lava and then Anakin catches fire like he was as wooden as his acting. And EMPALSUREC is the reason Anakin lives despite mass disfigurement. Medical science isn't the force.

It may have been an error but it shows up in other "cannon" lore. https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Force_Dash though that link also indicates it appeared in RoJ so who knows. Force healing used to be shown in use by Vader but it was only temporary and required him to channel his anger to maintain. That part is part of "Legends" though and I don't think Disney has touched upon it yet. The force though certainly helped to keep him alive until the operations were completed. Anyone else would have died so "space magic" was at work.