[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[dribbles]

Pretty much. Starve them until they comply with tax harmonization should be the better option.

For the avoidance of doubt...

’We will defend Gibraltar like the Falklands!’

Rear Admiral Chris Parry told the Telegraph in 2017: “We could cripple Spain in the medium term and I think the Americans would probably support us too.“In terms of military capability, we would vastly outnumber them and our capacity to do them harm is far greater.

“We are significantly more powerful than them, if it came to it we are probably three times more powerful than they are.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12...lklands-eu-spt

Bring it eurochums, bring it on!

[Slant]

Abit like talking with flat-earthers and the hardcore Trump base.

Yeah, except conspiracy theories and that kind of bullshit is not tolerated here. The glorious moderation team doesn't do jack shit about the bullshit Dribs posts and how he riles up people. They don't know if they want to take this forum serious or turn it into a retarded freak show, apparently.

[dribbles]

No one said Spain should invade or anything. Just enforce a hard border.

Except when you talk about starving people in the streets and blockading really you are making a declaration of war. Are the EU really going to do that?

See how that turned out last time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Siege_of_Gibraltar

[PrimiOne]

For the avoidance of doubt...

’We will defend Gibraltar like the Falklands!’

Rear Admiral Chris Parry told the Telegraph in 2017: “We could cripple Spain in the medium term and I think the Americans would probably support us too.“In terms of military capability, we would vastly outnumber them and our capacity to do them harm is far greater.

“We are significantly more powerful than them, if it came to it we are probably three times more powerful than they are.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12...lklands-eu-spt

Bring it eurochums, bring it on!

Wow......just......Wow dude... I don't have words.

You can start unfilling your cannons...you are not gonna need them.

[Crispin]

Except when you talk about starving people in the streets and blockading really you are making a declaration of war. Are the EU really going to do that?

See how that turned out last time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Siege_of_Gibraltar

Enforcing your border is a declaration of war? Does that mean the UK declared war on the EU? Make some sense for once.

[Gorsameth]

The funny thing is that there can't even be an exception for Gibraltar, that Spain had mentioned before, because under WTO terms that is not allowed. It would require a trade deal of some form. So a hard border is the only option, even if Spain & Gibraltar would prefer not to.

[Fuiking]

Enforcing your border is a declaration of war? Does that mean the UK declared war on the EU? Make some sense for once.

If even that happens and Dribbles claims USA will help... He must be deluded. If they help the UK (not totally out of the qeustion with Trump, but possibly hes out in November with some luck), China might aid the EU... And what then? Regardless, it will collapse the world economy even further.. And no one is that daft... apart from Dribbles I suppose.

[dribbles]

Wow......just......Wow dude... I don't have words.

You can start unfilling your cannons...you are not gonna need them.

Perhaps, in a spirit of reconciliation, EU fanatics on here should just accept Gibraltar is as British as Ceuta and Melilla (/cough cough) are Spanish.

[Mayhem]

Perhaps, in a spirit of reconciliation, EU fanatics on here should just accept Gibraltar is as British as Ceuta and Melilla (/cough cough) are Spanish.

Everyone here accepts that. We are however not responsible to keep your little enclave afloat if thanks to your decision their situation worsens so much they need an air bridge. Now considering Brexit is the bestiest thing that ever happened of all things ever happening, it should be absolutely no problem for the UK to take care of Gibraltar.

[PrimiOne]

Perhaps, in a spirit of reconciliation, EU fanatics on here should just accept Gibraltar is as British as Ceuta and Melilla (/cough cough) are Spanish.

Honey and milk always helps me with that cough but getting into this issue I haven't seen a single poster claiming anything related to the rock's sovereignty. I'm reading the thread again and again and there's absolutely nothing about it until you brought it up

This is not the discussion.

The discussion is about a deal and how you interpreted the expression "starve to death" as some kind of blockade or something and went ballistic on it. Well , dont' worry at all about it: there's absolutely zero chances. Believing that is ignoring the political situation of the rock.

But if you wanna enter into the details the truth is that a hard border or no deal at all is a "starve to death" situation not because there's a diplomatic and/or military conflit but because Gibraltar economy can not in any way survive that.

A simple number for you to undertand the context: 96% . It's the percentage of population that voted to stay in the EU.

[Gorsameth]

Perhaps, in a spirit of reconciliation, EU fanatics on here should just accept Gibraltar is as British as Ceuta and Melilla (/cough cough) are Spanish.

Always funny to try to win an argument against a point no one is even making.

Since you seem to have gotten the initial point in your patriotic chest beating detour I will remind you.
Gibraltar is heavily dependants on an open border with Spain for workers and goods. Brexit will put a hard border in place. Not because Spain is 'evil' but simply because that is what WTO terms mean and because the UK seems set on that course.

[zealo]

Frankly, it's chiefly a British problem, not an EU one, if Gibraltar ends up struggling as a result of a more thorough border being imposed as a result of the no-deal that Westminster is pursuing.

Britain voted for this, it's up to Westminster to keep Gibraltar afloat if their preferred form of Brexit necessitates a more thoroughly controlled border.

[Xarkan]

Spain just as the RoI is EU and the EU will back a member over a non-member. So it's not Spain vs UK, it's EU vs UK.

It would still be Spanish "colonialism" not the EU's

The EU would be backing its member because that is what an alliance is

[Slant]

If even that happens and Dribbles claims USA will help... He must be deluded. If they help the UK (not totally out of the qeustion with Trump, but possibly hes out in November with some luck), China might aid the EU... And what then? Regardless, it will collapse the world economy even further.. And no one is that daft... apart from Dribbles I suppose.

You think?

Of course it's bullshit, because that's what Dribs does, troll, rile people up, spread wild conspiracies. Meanwhile, I'm probably already on review for speaking out once more. Oh what a big troublemaker I am.

Bottom line: Spain has the right and the duty to defend its borders. Calling that a declaration of war is idiotic. Go ahead, defend your rock. It's not like anyone but monkeys is attacking it...

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

For the avoidance of doubt...

’We will defend Gibraltar like the Falklands!’

Rear Admiral Chris Parry told the Telegraph in 2017: “We could cripple Spain in the medium term and I think the Americans would probably support us too.“In terms of military capability, we would vastly outnumber them and our capacity to do them harm is far greater.

“We are significantly more powerful than them, if it came to it we are probably three times more powerful than they are.”

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/12...lklands-eu-spt

Bring it eurochums, bring it on!

The USA did not support the UK in the Falklands War. They supported the Argentinians. In case you had forgotten.

Spain is also a member of NATO, who would invoke Article 8 and thus gain the military support of almost every nation west of Russia except for Belarus, as well as that of Canada and the USA. The WTO would impose trade sanctions on the UK until it ended the aggression.

Welcome to reality on the big stage when you're a little fish.

[Xarkan]

The USA did not support the UK in the Falklands War. They supported the Argentinians. In case you had forgotten.

Spain is also a member of NATO, who would invoke Article 8 and thus gain the military support of almost every nation west of Russia except for Belarus, as well as that of Canada and the USA. The WTO would impose trade sanctions on the UK until it ended the aggression.

Welcome to reality on the big stage when you're a little fish.

Article 8?

Article 8

Each Party declares that none of the international engagements now in force between it and any other of the Parties or any third State is in conflict with the provisions of this Treaty, and undertakes not to enter into any international engagement in conflict with this Treaty.

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive...exts_17120.htm

Edit: More to the point the treaty is not really intended to protect nato members against eachother

There might be parts of the current EU treaty to which Spain is a party that could apply

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Article 8?


https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive...exts_17120.htm

Edit: More to the point the treaty is not really intended to protect nato members against eachother

There might be parts of the current EU treaty to which Spain is a party that could apply

huh, I thought it was §8 that the US invoked after 9/11. No matter

[Forogil]

huh, I thought it was §8 that the US invoked after 9/11. No matter

It was article 5, which is the cornerstone of NATO.

“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area...."

Technically it doesn't exclude an attack by one on another, but ...
On the other hand it excludes the Falklands - and it's also south of article 6.

[Temp name]

It was article 5, which is the cornerstone of NATO.

“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area...."

Technically it doesn't exclude an attack by one on another, but ...
On the other hand it excludes the Falklands - and it's also south of article 6.

But we can all (except for Dribbles) agree that in the case the UK does something so spectacularly stupid as to attack Spain for enforcing its own border with Gibraltar, NATO would be on Spain's side. Hell, the UN probably would too.

[Easo]

People, stop talking about war for Gibraltar, it's bullshit and is not gonna happen.
Spain's posturing is meant for the local idiots to give political cookies to politicians, nothing more.

Except when you talk about starving people in the streets and blockading really you are making a declaration of war. Are the EU really going to do that?

See how that turned out last time...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Siege_of_Gibraltar

1. No one will starve in Gibraltar. It's economy might go to shit, though. Also, they very clearly said what they want, dribbles. Same as Scotland. Take care not to ignore their needs too much...
2. 18th century war would have zero similarities with 21st century one. Even armchair generals can tell you that.