Poll: Which way would you prefer your new ability?

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  1. #21
    give me all 4

    but realistically i'd rather just have spells given to me so i don't have to choose, especially awful is when you choose between talents when some is a passive and another is an active and fun, but a passive one is just better..

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by shade3891 View Post
    Covenants should have been on a weekly rotation... The abilities rotate per week and you can progress each storyline.... Spend more time unlocking cool stuff.
    That sounds like a pretty good idea. But I can already hear the crying, wahhh I cant run mythic + until next rotation waahhh

  3. #23
    The poll literally says choose 1 of 4. Where is anyone seeing random?

  4. #24
    I rather choose the op one then reroll till I get the one pugs invite me with.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondercrab View Post
    Permanency aside, I think it would be a whole lot better if the choice of gameplay mechanic wasn't also tied to thematic flavour, story content, and cosmetic rewards that you might prefer more than the ability associated with them.
    yeah buts thats not really rpg. its like not liking the new zones and want to do the raids on pandaria :/

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by d00dles View Post
    This is, perhaps, the most important point of the entire discussion.

    Not only that, but there other points to take into considerations as well:

    1 -- What if the boss fight that requires heavy movement is the single EASIEST fight of the whole raid? You are going to wish you had 2% dps instead.

    2 -- Many of the passives from the soulbind talent tree offer increased movement speed. What if kiting the boss is much more common in Shadowlands? Wasting 1.5 seconds to teleport seems a lot less appealing vs constantly moving faster.

    3 -- What if Blizzard nerfs the range of Door of Shadows(venthyr) down the line? Suddenly Soulshape starts to look much more appealing due to the blink component.
    Given Blizz's history in terms of content design and balance, only your third point (which is one I fear in general in a system with permanent choices) is the most likely to happen.

    Typically, teleporting >>>> passive movement when it comes to encounters, especially as a class/spec that suffers hefty DPS losses along with dodging/avoiding/trivializing/negating mechanics and/or damage. That isn't to say passive movement speed isn't useful nor desired, but when it comes to movement vs teleporting, there a tons of ways to increase your movement speed via pots and a myraid of class/spec abilities to buff yourself and/or your group (roar/totem/etc.).... but there's only one "teleport" that everyone can use: warlock gateways. Warlock gateways have been near-mandatory for standard strategies for mythic raiding progression or skips in M+ this past expansion, and abilities like Door of Shadows offer way more flexibility and control than gateways can. Honestly, the only thing that would be more powerful than an ability like Door of Shadows would be giving anyone an immunity CD, and the 'cheat death' mechanics are kind of a close second.

    I feel people are misunderstanding the arguments at play. Even the very top of mythic raiders aren't concerning about a couple of damage percentage points difference in abilities. They (myself included) are concerned about game-breaking or trivializing abilities, or abilities/passives that are way too strong in a sea of mediocre to poor abilities... more so if you're locked into such decisions or given an illusion of choice where there's no illusion at all. Blizz's recent record when it comes to implementing systems and abilities as of late has show they are extremely terrible at striking a balance, so forgive me if I don't really have much faith in Blizz actually making covenants a real choice versus "you can choose whichever you want... but this one is soooo good for you and the others are meh/bad, so there's only one real choice."

    More on topic, this would be much less of an issue if the signature abilities were sort of similar but with different flavor. An example of this is the relationship between Door of Shadows and Soulshape: both are movement abilities that accomplish something similar but in different ways. If the Necrolord/Kyrian signature abilities were also movement abilities on par with the other two, then this entire discussion is probably not necessary.

    Blizz could also just have one standard ability that does exactly the same thing, design/balance content around it, and have covenants cosmetically change the ability. Covenants could alter what this one ability does, along with what they already do, so long as the alteration doesn't completely change the power of said ability to something completely out of balance. You can see this already done in soul conduits, where abilities like Door of Shadows can be instant cast at a longer CD, give you movement speed boost after teleporting, or give you a small damage absorb shield. This is probably where the root of my frustration truly is: Blizz already has the answers to these balancing problems in the game, it's just whoever is controlling the direction of the systems is so stubborn they can't see what's in front of their face.
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  7. #27
    I'm fine with the current system. I'm Feral so I'm used to Blizzard taking a BIG FAT SHIT all over me. So who cares. I'll take the cosmetics Night Fae offer over the potential 0.05% dps increase that another Covenant may or may not offer.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lionhearte0 View Post
    I'm fine with the current system. I'm Feral so I'm used to Blizzard taking a BIG FAT SHIT all over me. So who cares. I'll take the cosmetics Night Fae offer over the potential 0.05% dps increase that another Covenant may or may not offer.
    In case you haven't realised it yet, this isn't about [insert arbitrary and ridiculously small number]%, but rather about the utility spells provided by each Covenant.
    Quote Originally Posted by trimble View Post
    WoD was the expansion that was targeted at non raiders.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by d00dles View Post
    This is, perhaps, the most important point of the entire discussion.

    Not only that, but there are many encounter situations to take into considerations as well:

    1 -- What if the boss fight that requires heavy movement is the single EASIEST fight of the whole raid? 2% dps increase seems a lot more appealing now.

    2 -- Many of the passive abilities from the soulbind talent tree offer increased movement speed. What if moving during a boss fight is much more common in Shadowlands? What if a multi-phase boss requires constant movement during the fight? Wasting 1.5 seconds to teleport seems a lot less appealing vs constantly moving faster.

    3 -- What if Blizzard nerfs the range of Door of Shadows(venthyr) down the line? Soulshape looks much more appealing now due to the blink component.
    In the end players always face hard choices with "consequences", I raided as paladin for 9 years because I love the Paladin fantasy and hybrid/support role- and the flexibility of having 3 different specs in 3 different roles. For the same reasons my main alt has always been a druid, those choices ment that I would never top DPS charts no matter how much I min/maxed and theorycrafted (was one of the leading theorycrafters for ret back in MoP days). I made the choice between a class that I liked and a class that would satisfy my min/max nature, the same choice people will have in Shadowlands: pick the covenant you like the most or the covenant which is "best" for min/maxing.
    I changed from Paladin in MoP to Warrior in Legion and from Warrior to Demon Hunter in BfA. I quit at the end of Helya in Legion (for multiple reasons) but one of the reasons were that I missed my Paladin, in BfA I ended up trying Demon Hunter and loved it for the first two months but after that I started to miss my Paladin again.

    So choices that are hard and puts you in a tough position aren’t bad, in fact they are good! Obviously it’s important that all classes and Covenants has a place in the game and doesn’t end up completely ignored, that’s the task Blizzard has to nail and be on top of thibgs to fix quickly. Understandably lots of people don’t trust Blizzard to do so, which by the recent history is an accurate worry. But we should give them a chance, it’s still early beta and thing will change- especially numbers!
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  10. #30
    people want neither. they want access to all 4 whenever they want them and to be able to change them whenever they want.

    anything less will lead to "stupid devs. fire ion blah blah blah"

    this is the playerbase.

  11. #31
    Neither one. I'd like for covenants to be cosmetic and progression to happen in the class/spec systems.

  12. #32
    Honestly, neither is good when considering Shadowlands. Some Covenants have awful abilities or awful utility spells. Like Ardenweald for Druid. Soulshape is 100% useless for Druid.

  13. #33
    The question has a false premise.

    The real poll should be:

    do you prefer to have to choose 21 out of 84 abilities. or choose 20 out of 80 (and be given 1).

    If the difference in feedback between Tier gear (no choice) and Azerite gear (lots of choice) has taught me anything - people HATE too much choice.

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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Huntingbear_grimbatol View Post
    As much as I like the min/max of the game it’s the players who are making this a problem for themselves. 2% dps or the ability to move quicker once every 3 minutes and so on won’t make or break any content you’re doing.
    The ability to teleport absolutely will though.

    If you're doing M+ and your strategy is to skip this pack of mobs, you don't have the teleport, you can't do it. You aren't invited.

    That's the reality.

    Covenants should just work like the Zandalari racial ability, i.e. go visit some shrine somewhere if you want to change your covenant ability.

  15. #35
    I dunno what you mean with semi permanent, but ok.

    I want class abilities given through the class system. I don't want rental powers, and choices we already have a system for, the talent system.
    I want them to add to the established systems and stop worrying about the future and taking us for granted. I am ok with prunings if you also add new abilities. New abilities can also just be upgrades to existing ones. It's a great excuse to introduce new animations and improve the visual presentation.
    Last edited by Swnem; 2020-07-27 at 01:57 AM.

  16. #36
    Its only a big discussion because people are missing the point.

    Stop worrying about it. Pick the one you like the most or pick the one that you find most appropriate for the content you do the most.

    The real power will come from the conduits, soulbinds, and legendaries.
    Far far more important than the actual ability.

    In reality, you might be choosing a covenant based on soulbinds above the ability itself, honestly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ydraw View Post
    The ability to teleport absolutely will though.

    If you're doing M+ and your strategy is to skip this pack of mobs, you don't have the teleport, you can't do it. You aren't invited.

    That's the reality.

    Covenants should just work like the Zandalari racial ability, i.e. go visit some shrine somewhere if you want to change your covenant ability.
    I don't know why people keep bringing this up.
    A 35 yard teleport is not far enough to skip any packs as far as I can tell.

    Can you show me an example of a place this is being used?
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  17. #37
    This poll has nothing to do with the issues that people have with the coming shadowlands systems.
    In shadowlands you are not only asked to choose a covenant with its sognature ability but also soul conduits. The whole game mechanics limit the diversity of your activities and versatility of your characters.


    You will eventually have to choose at which yiu will exceed between MM+, raiding, arena, battleground and outdoor content.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Hey There Guys its Metro View Post
    Its only a big discussion because people are missing the point.

    Stop worrying about it. Pick the one you like the most or pick the one that you find most appropriate for the content you do the most.

    The real power will come from the conduits, soulbinds, and legendaries.
    Far far more important than the actual ability.

    In reality, you might be choosing a covenant based on soulbinds above the ability itself, honestly.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I don't know why people keep bringing this up.
    A 35 yard teleport is not far enough to skip any packs as far as I can tell.

    Can you show me an example of a place this is being used?
    Basically any situation where you can currently use a warlock gate to skip mobs/terrain, you could use this teleport instead.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2o_XCpLnjzU
    Last edited by ydraw; 2020-07-27 at 01:00 PM.

  19. #39
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    I read the OP as:
    Would you like Covenants the way they are (multiple choice question), or would you like Covenants to work like Artifact weapons from Legion (single ability based on class/spec)?

    TBH I don't really care since I no longer push mythic raids.
    The top tier that does will adapt either way, maybe be angry bc of A instead of B for fight X type situations, and the fanbois and tryhards would shit on either option regardless of what their actual play level is.
    For me, any combo of Covenant/soulbind/conduit setup will be able to complete Heroic raids and similarly ranked content (including everything below), so in either case, I'm good.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Destiny Man View Post
    At the moment the choices for my chosen class aren't really that exciting, its mostly the generic covenant ability that's a big factor for me (Door of Shadows heavily mitigates DPS loss from heavy movement).

    So in terms of class abilities I'd be just as thrilled with having one fixed ability vs choice of 4.
    The Night Fae signature ability does have more consistent mobility than the other options with mobility, even more so with conduit/soulbind choices. That being said clearly some signatures mesh better with other classes.
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