Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Howel]

I think I understand why you and your fellow lawyers see it that way. I just think that refusing to talk with police when it can help someone and save lives is morally wrong.

Let's be honest, that's not the most common case of refusal to talk to the police

[Draco-Onis]

It is slavic kolovrat which is a type of swastika. What is a lie is that its a nazi symbol and only used by neo nazis. Idk why you think that I am not proud anymore.

Because you felt insulted and I wasn't arguing with you, I didn't even reply to you I was simply pointing out what you are.

[Belize]

I think I understand why you and your fellow lawyers see it that way. I just think that refusing to talk with police when it can help someone and save lives is morally wrong.

Do you think unmarked law enforcement officials kidnapping citizens in unmarked vans is also morally wrong?

Just wondering where you stand on that issue.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

By this time you should release the authoritarian left likes to equate things that are not equal. Trump benefiting from russian interference means trump is a russian asset, detention facilities used to hold illegal immigrant under obama become concentration camps, and now the same federal agents the left wing folk were begging to kill the Bundy ranch folks are the Gestapo. Id say they just using hyperbole but they actually believe this stuff.

You must be aware that when you start using These things in drastically different ways they change right?

Obama wasn’t shoving Asylum seekers into cages Denying then medical aid and going out of his way to hold them indefinitely.

It’s the same thing with sending unmarked officers in unmarked vans to snatch protesters off the street Obama never did any thing of the kind.

[Saltysquidoon]

Guessing it is the whole, what you say, can and will be used against you in a court?

There are a few reasons.

• If you are the victim of a non-violent crime (such as a theft) even if they catch the perpetrator you'd be lucky to get your goods back.
• If you're a witness the police can confiscate your phone which obviously legally exposes you and anything you say to them could be the impetus of an investigation into you
• Obviously, if you are suspected of a crime you aren't talking your way out of it.

I think I understand why you and your fellow lawyers see it that way. I just think that refusing to talk with police when it can help someone and save lives is morally wrong.

You are free to hold your own opinion. I will say however the likelihood of any information you provide to the police actually making your immediate community safer is quite low.

But like any legal issue, the answer always depends on the facts and circumstances.

EDIT: There are obviously times when it is important to talk to the police. Such as if you a victim of a violent crime or when it is compulsory (such as traffic stops in certain jurisdictions).

[Cizr]

Do you think unmarked law enforcement officials kidnapping citizens in unmarked vans is also morally wrong?

Just wondering where you stand on that issue.

Depends. Are these citizens burning down federal buildings, attacking their fellow citizens or inciting violence maybe?

Would you be okay with it if they were brought to a police station in a marked police car ?

[Howel]

There are a few reasons.

• If you're a witness the police can confiscate your phone which obviously legally exposes you and anything you say to them could be the impetus of an investigation into you

I think this is the one that really hurts. Like helping can literally land you in trouble as well.

[Draco-Onis]

Do not bother me with your attacks if you cant argue and educate yourself before you will make another repulsive comments like the Gestapo one.

There's nothing to argue here's why.

1 - These forces were deployed after 50 days when the protests were dying down this debunks any notion that this was an emergency and rioters were out of control.
2 - These forces were not properly trained for crowd control according to the Trump adminstration.
3 - They fail to identify themselves putting the public and themselves at risk because in the US we have the 2nd amendment and the right to stand our ground.
4- Their uniforms are near identical to that of right wing millitias with hard to identify insignias or none at all adding to the confusion.
5- we have several videos of them opening fire on protesters first without being engaged which you can blame on point 2 and dragging people to parts unknown without reading them their rights or telling them what they are charged with.

I mean I can go on and on but it's clear you will defend all this because your history speaks for itself you always side with these types which is a pure coincidence just like your swatzitka i am sure.

[Howel]

Depends. Are these citizens burning down federal buildings, attacking their fellow citizens or inciting violence maybe?

But why would you need "hidden" police to do that?

[Grapemask]

Oh geez, I didn't even notice that this thread got moved in here. Did MMO-C's racists finally win at screaming that everything they don't like talking about is "politics"?

[Belize]

Depends. Are these citizens burning down federal buildings, attacking their fellow citizens or inciting violence maybe?

No they're just randomly grabbing people that are walking down the street, and journalists, to the point where judges in Portland have issued an order to stop targeting journalists.

Try to keep up with the news.

Would you be okay with it if they were brought to a police station in a marked police car ?

Why yes, because of this little thing called accountability. It's a strange concept, but in modern democracies, governments generally aren't allowed to just send in their forces to suppress the population.

[Elegiac]

The one in which cops in Akira (1988) show more restraint than actual police by shooting someone in the gut with a smoke grenade. As opposed to the face.

I'm a seeing an awful lot of people in this thread complaining about people spray painting threats at cops rather than cops actually assaulting or shooting at peaceful protesters. One of these things is a little more serious than the other, methinks.

[s_bushido]

I'm a seeing an awful lot of people in this thread complaining about people spray painting threats at cops rather than cops actually assaulting or shooting at peaceful protesters. One of these things is a little more serious than the other, methinks.

They demonstrated that they care more about property than lives months ago. This shouldn't be surprising.

[Elegiac]

They demonstrated that they care more about property than lives months ago. This shouldn't be surprising.

They also don't see the inherent contradiction in bitching about cancel culture and then cheering on people being arrested for spray painting mean things.

[Howel]

They also don't see the inherent contradiction in bitching about cancel culture and then cheering on people being arrested for spray painting mean things.

Ehhhh, that's not a good argument. It is vandalism, after all they are being arrested for, not the actual words.

[Elegiac]

Ehhhh, that's not a good argument. It is vandalism, after all they are being arrested for, not the actual words.

Considering there is no attempt to identify the persons responsible for the vandalism but just generally targeting protesters under some assumed 'threat' using said words as evidence - no.

Allow me to officer this counterpoint in the form of at least four grown police officers attacking a 14 year old girl, because for some reason we're talking about a shitty old building getting defaced rather than a plague of police violence.

[Howel]

Considering there is no attempt to identify the persons responsible for the vandalism but just generally targeting protesters under some assumed 'threat' using said words as evidence - no.

Allow me to officer this counterpoint in the form of at least four grown police officers attacking a 14 year old girl, because for some reason we're talking about a shitty old building getting defaced rather than a plague of police violence.

Again, I am not condoning or happy about what is happening, but the notion that they are being arrested for the mean graffiti words, and that is what other people are happy for, is not... a great argument. Although, I am sure some would be happy for it, unfortunately...

[Pannonian]

to recap the last few pages: Nazi-Avatar-guy is defending modern brown shirts.

Who would've thought...

[Antiganon]

Again, I am not condoning or happy about what is happening, but the notion that they are being arrested for the mean graffiti words, and that is what other people are happy for, is not... a great argument. Although, I am sure some would be happy for it, unfortunately...

There should be no "but" in this sentence.

I believe police officers are completely capable of both arresting people for vandalizing public property and condemning the actions of unmarked unidentified federal secret police who are assaulting and kidnapping protestors, then detaining and questioning them without. charges.

If they aren't, well that would be a sign we need some different police officers, and better training for them, no?

[Howel]

There should be no "but" in this sentence.

I believe police officers are completely capable of both arresting people for vandalizing public property and condemning the actions of unmarked unidentified federal secret police who are assaulting and kidnapping protestors, then detaining and questioning them without. charges.

If they aren't, well that would be a sign we need some different police officers, and better training for them, no?

That's something completely different than from we were discussing here