Covenants, most disliked new xpac feature?

[NineSpine]

I wouldn't say the most disliked... in fact I think a lot of people like the concept...

There is just 0 trust left from the playerbase that blizzard can do borrowed power systems well at this point though and the option to just not swap to what isnt broken by a balance patch annoys people.

Others like myself are annoyed that they are going to be shackled to a covenant they dislike theme wise because they want to be successful at high end.

If you can't succeed at the high end, I have bad news for you: The problem isnt your covenant.

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I don't know why Blizz is still trying. What is their success rate with these experiments again? Why do we need to play through an entire content patch worth of unbalanced, unenjoyable crap before they listen to the feedback they got months ago?

The vast majority of features that Blizzard has added have been huge successes. The ones that aren't are mostly in BFA.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

The choice has never been permanent. Its just not designed to be swapable on-the-fly for every raid encounter or something like that. You can swap it just fine if you decide you don't like i.

This misconception really needs to go.

Really? Can you tell us how we'll be able to swap Covenants outside of instanced content? (I'm not being snarky or sarcastic, I literally haven't seen any information out of Blizzard detailing what you have to do to switch Covenants).

[NineSpine]

Really? Can you tell us how we'll be able to swap Covenants outside of instanced content? (I'm not being snarky or sarcastic, I literally haven't seen any information out of Blizzard detailing what you have to do to switch Covenants).

They said switching wont be hard but switching back will be.

[Nerovar]

The vast majority of features that Blizzard has added have been huge successes. The ones that aren't are mostly in BFA.

Most of Blizzard's recent features and basically all of the borrowed power systems have been criticized to an unprecedented degree. This includes corruption, azerite gear, legiondaries, AP grind etc.

[NineSpine]

Most of Blizzard's recent features and basically all of the borrowed power systems have been criticized to an unprecedented degree. This includes corruption, azerite gear, legiondaries, AP grind etc.

Artifact weapons were wildly popular. Legiondaries were wildly popular except for the acquisition method, and they weren't even borrowed power. They were just gear.

[Kalador]

Except it's behaving exactly how they intended...not every ability or choice is meant to be good for everything.

They want you to choose a covenant for one reason or another...but people want it all. They want their A covenant armor mog while having covenant ability B while exploring covenant D's story because they have cool vampire people.

I don't know. I don't think it is. Almost everyone is talking about what is the "best covenant" in terms of power, not a lot of people are talking about what is the coolest.. Again I'm not saying that the system is garbage and that covenant should be swapable. i'm just saying if the biggest part of the active player base doesn't even consider story/look/theme but just power in their choice. I'm not sure that what blizz wants. that if 90+% of the rogue you play with in +10 and in raid are ventyr the system is a success.

Also just the fact that so many people are not excited to chose a covenant but more scared of picking the wrong one is not very encouraging.

[NineSpine]

I don't know. I don't think it is. Almost everyone is talking about what is the "best covenant" in terms of power, not a lot of people are talking about what is the coolest.. Again I'm not saying that the system is garbage and that covenant should be swapable. i'm just saying if the biggest part of the active player base doesn't even consider story/look/theme but just power in their choice. I'm not sure that what blizz wants. that if 90+% of the rogue you play with in +10 and in raid are ventyr the system is a success.

Also just the fact that so many people are not excited to chose a covenant but more scared of picking the wrong one is not very encouraging.

Weird, because a ton of the whining I'm seeing is "I can't pick the one I want because my guild master is my mommy and tells me what to do".

[Naramag]

Maybe we could all (and not only here) take a step back and realize, that it's a game? Meant to be fun to play? Everybody's basically saying "If I am not perfect in this, why bother?" But you don't need to be perfect. You need to have fun. Most doesn't even have to be perfect in their job. And that's what they are being paid to do. Playing a game is supposed to be a hobby. Of course you can strive to be good. But there is no need to punish anybody for his choice. Because it doesn't matter. In the end, all that should matter was the fun.
Now, if we are speaking about people that are being paid to play, they should find the best covenant. But they will figure out which that is long before the choice is made. And for the rest: have fun. If people are giving you an attitude, look for other peoples.
That's what I have done since WotLK and I don't miss anything. I play with people I like and I am having a lot of fun. Even when we are dying through a dungeon... that can be fun too.

[NineSpine]

Maybe we could all (and not only here) take a step back and realize, that it's a game? Meant to be fun to play? Everybody's basically saying "If I am not perfect in this, why bother?" But you don't need to be perfect. You need to have fun. Most doesn't even have to be perfect in their job. And that's what they are being paid to do. Playing a game is supposed to be a hobby. Of course you can strive to be good. But there is no need to punish anybody for his choice. Because it doesn't matter. In the end, all that should matter was the fun.
Now, if we are speaking about people that are being paid to play, they should find the best covenant. But they will figure out which that is long before the choice is made. And for the rest: have fun. If people are giving you an attitude, look for other peoples.
That's what I have done since WotLK and I don't miss anything. I play with people I like and I am having a lot of fun. Even when we are dying through a dungeon... that can be fun too.

You misunderstand something. A lot of these guys think that their server-seventh mythic kill makes them some kind of esports god. You underestimate how much stock a lot of these people put into their delusions of grandeur and false belief that this is a competitive game.

[Kalador]

The choice has never been permanent. Its just not designed to be swapable on-the-fly for every raid encounter or something like that. You can swap it just fine if you decide you don't like i.

This misconception really needs to go.

There goal is to make it permanent... the swap is intended as a: I fuck up and want to reroll, not as a swap every week thing.

To me that is the definition of permanent choice. yes there is a safety measure if you fuck up. But blizzard goal here is that you choose a covenant and stick to it for the expac

[Relapses]

I wouldn't say Covenants are the most disliked new expansion feature but they are certainly one of the more controversial ones. And the reason they're controversial has a lot to do with Blizzard bungling the handling of similar systems in the past and players generally being incredibly skeptical of Blizzard's "we know better than you do" way of reasoning the way they roll out these systems. I might've read it on reddit somewhere but I think the biggest problem Blizzard has with the game right now is that they aren't designing the game for the community they have... they're designing it for the community they want to have.

[SecretAgent]

Maybe we could all (and not only here) take a step back and realize, that it's a game? Meant to be fun to play? Everybody's basically saying "If I am not perfect in this, why bother?" But you don't need to be perfect. You need to have fun. Most doesn't even have to be perfect in their job. And that's what they are being paid to do. Playing a game is supposed to be a hobby. Of course you can strive to be good. But there is no need to punish anybody for his choice. Because it doesn't matter. In the end, all that should matter was the fun.
Now, if we are speaking about people that are being paid to play, they should find the best covenant. But they will figure out which that is long before the choice is made. And for the rest: have fun. If people are giving you an attitude, look for other peoples.
That's what I have done since WotLK and I don't miss anything. I play with people I like and I am having a lot of fun. Even when we are dying through a dungeon... that can be fun too.

The thing is, having the bad covenant spell for PvP for example is gonna make you feel bad and not "fun"

People have fun in different ways , some have fun by maxing dps, others by collecting xmogs, others by exploring etc...

[NineSpine]

I wouldn't say Covenants are the most disliked new expansion feature but they are certainly one of the more controversial ones. And the reason they're controversial has a lot to do with Blizzard bungling the handling of similar systems in the past and players generally being incredibly skeptical of Blizzard's "we know better than you do" way of reasoning the way they roll out these systems. I might've read it on reddit somewhere but I think the biggest problem Blizzard has with the game right now is that they aren't designing the game for the community they have... they're designing it for the community they want to have.

No, the problem is they are designing it for the community they have and not for an extremely loud and abrasive "elite" minority that believe they represent the entire community.

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The thing is, having the bad covenant spell for PvP for example is gonna make you feel bad and not "fun"

People have fun in different ways , some have fun by maxing dps, others by collecting xmogs, others by exploring etc...

Then min-max. That's called "choice".

[Kalador]

Weird, because a ton of the whining I'm seeing is "I can't pick the one I want because my guild master is my mommy and tells me what to do".

I mean outside of putting a shity spin on it you are basically saying what I'm saying... people are going to chose base on power and not based on theme even if they want to...

I think it's an interesting topic of discussion but i don't see why people need to always bring those "people don't know what they want" or "it's player fault" etc.. BS in the argument.

[NineSpine]

I mean outside of putting a shity spin on it you are basically saying what I'm saying... people are going to chose base on power and not based on theme even if they want to...

I think it's an interesting topic of discussion but i don't see why people need to always bring those "people don't know what they want" or "it's player fault" etc.. BS in the argument.

I'm going to pick based on the theme I like for my characters, and every single person I have spoken to that I play with is going to do the same.

[LordVargK]

Artifact weapons were wildly popular. Legiondaries were wildly popular except for the acquisition method, and they weren't even borrowed power. They were just gear.

No, they were not at the start of Legion. They were once artifact knowledge was high and automatically increased week by week. The month you had to grind your weapon to even have a complete class was absolute dogshit and probably the reason there are quite a few players that think of Legion as one of the worst expansions. Yes, Artifact weapons became popular. But only after they fixed everything that was wrong with them (only to repeat the same mistakes with Azerite gear...).

[Naramag]

You misunderstand something. A lot of these guys think that their server-seventh mythic kill makes them some kind of esports god. You underestimate how much stock a lot of these people put into their delusions of grandeur and false belief that this is a competitive game.

Oh, no, I understand that. It derives in principle from the calvinistic point of view: Work hard and you're a good person. Misfortune only happens to bad people.
So if a gamer is not playing the best possible, making all the right choices, he is bad. He won't have success and all the merits that it awards.

What most don't understand: Only very few people really judge you this way. The rest just follows this trend. In reality, it doesn't matter. You can't achieve success, you have to have a good portion of luck.

[NineSpine]

No, they were not at the start of Legion. They were once artifact knowledge was high and automatically increased week by week. The month you had to grind your weapon to even have a complete class was absolute dogshit and the worst. Yes, Artifact weapons became popular. But only after they fixed everything that was wrong with them (only to repeat the same mistakes with Azerite gear...).

Your fallacy is assuming that you and the other 1% of people that cared to grind them out are the only people that exist.

[LordVargK]

Your fallacy is assuming that you and the other 1% of people that cared to grind them out are the only people that exist.

Not sure what you mean by that?

[Relapses]

No, the problem is they are designing it for the community they have and not for an extremely loud and abrasive "elite" minority that believe they represent the entire community.

Way to totally diminish and sideline the entire argument. These viewpoints trickle down from the "elite minority" and negatively impact players at all levels of the game.