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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    This simply isnt true. There are plenty of big servers with 20+ Cutting edge guilds and we are not seeing this behaviour in any big numbers at all there.

    The only reason mythic raiding is still limited to server is becasue blizzard wants that cash from transfer services.
    Ah yes, the good ol "no real Mythic guild experiences this behavior." Any other shitty logical fallacies you'd like to use to support your imaginary claim?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    This simply isnt true. There are plenty of big servers with 20+ Cutting edge guilds and we are not seeing this behaviour in any big numbers at all there.
    Imagine that an entire region is made up by more than 20 Cutting edge guilds.

    Add like two digits to that number, that might be a little closer.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Okay..so you really switch guilds that often? Why are guilds so fickle and often disintegrate....well..and why always o many characters to transfer. 2k euros...crazy...for somebody like me who so far spend 25 euros on one (in the end useless) race change

    Seriously curious...maybe I got lucky with my guild while I raided and we stuck together for 8 years. Or is it really shooting for cutting edge mythic.?
    theoretically i payed about 70% of it with gold i got from boosting m+/mythic raids, i payed with RM back in wrath-mop so is free but some one payed for the tokens

    i play in the top 30s and a guild can slack sometimes and lose its mebers cuz of it, go casual or the players get a better deal. Look for example naowh went from serenety to future to method to limit in what 3? tiers of raiding this happens alot cuz we in the most cases dont recrute from lower rank guilds (palyer brun out and leave in middle of progress kind of deals with those and you are fucked cuz you geared them up and wasted time).
    We basically wander arround in circels and those guild know it and dont take it personaly. If a guild goes from rank 20 to rank 100 cuz of bad planing they expect to lose members.
    And yes sure if the ranks dont matter to you you can stick with a guild for 10 years but this is not my world, i try to get the most out of my 5hrs a day for 2 week raids without gonig ham 12hrs a day like the dudes from the top 1-6 guilds.
    I take 2 weeks of work and raid 5Hrs a day but i still have a GF, a Cat and family i cant just ignore and those 2 weeks of raiding every 6 months is why i play this game
    I.O BFA Season 3


  4. #64
    because realm community would die

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by ryjkur View Post
    because realm community would die
    About 8 years to late for that.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    About 8 years to late for that.
    For people who never unsubscribe and play for an entire expansion, sure. But for players who are cyclical and only come back for the beginning of an expansion it's a much different story. These players have likely had characters on what are now dead/dying realms for going on two decades. And since these players conceivably make up a large portion of WoW's playerbase, it makes sense that Blizzard doesn't want to fuck with them too much.

    Like seriously, WoD saw a spike of 10M subscribers at the beginning. Tom Chilton famously spilled the tea that early Legion hit the 10M subscriber mark as well. And BfA, despite its unfinished state pre-8.1, was the best selling expansion to-date. If we conservatively estimate the game has about ~2 million subscribers during content droughts like the ones we're in right now then we're talking easily 5-7 million returning players for the beginning of expansions. If anybody doesn't think that the experiences of these players matters because your sweet internet cynicism leads you to believe Blizzard would rather pocket a fucking $25 server transfer fee, I really don't know what the fuck to say.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    For people who never unsubscribe and play for an entire expansion, sure. But for players who are cyclical and only come back for the beginning of an expansion it's a much different story. These players have likely had characters on what are now dead/dying realms for going on two decades. And since these players conceivably make up a large portion of WoW's playerbase, it makes sense that Blizzard doesn't want to fuck with them too much.

    Like seriously, WoD saw a spike of 10M subscribers at the beginning. Tom Chilton famously spilled the tea that early Legion hit the 10M subscriber mark as well. And BfA, despite its unfinished state pre-8.1, was the best selling expansion to-date. If we conservatively estimate the game has about ~2 million subscribers during content droughts like the ones we're in right now then we're talking easily 5-7 million returning players for the beginning of expansions. If anybody doesn't think that the experiences of these players matters because your sweet internet cynicism leads you to believe Blizzard would rather pocket a fucking $25 server transfer fee, I really don't know what the fuck to say.
    If your gone for a year to a year plus would it matter? Everything on the realm would of changed so much as to be unrecognizable in terms of framiler players.

    I don't think finding out you could group with players from other servers in mythic would be that big of a shock...

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    If your gone for a year to a year plus would it matter? Everything on the realm would of changed so much as to be unrecognizable in terms of framiler players.

    I don't think finding out you could group with players from other servers in mythic would be that big of a shock...
    My reasoning is less about the viability of cross-realm Mythic and more about why Blizzard is apprehensive to do it. The biggest being the realm identity that you say "doesn't matter anymore" when it very clearly does for certain segments of the game's playerbase.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    For people who never unsubscribe and play for an entire expansion, sure. But for players who are cyclical and only come back for the beginning of an expansion it's a much different story. These players have likely had characters on what are now dead/dying realms for going on two decades. And since these players conceivably make up a large portion of WoW's playerbase, it makes sense that Blizzard doesn't want to fuck with them too much.
    But what are they returning to in your mind? The realm is dead, the guilds and people they used to play with are all gone when they return. There is no more 'community' they were used to. (Not to mention that your idea of 'community' is a fairy tale at this point, not reality). How would providing them people to play with instead of letting them rot on dead servers be 'fucking too much'?

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    But what are they returning to in your mind? The realm is dead, the guilds and people they used to play with are all gone when they return. There is no more 'community' they were used to. (Not to mention that your idea of 'community' is a fairy tale at this point, not reality). How would providing them people to play with instead of letting them rot on dead servers be 'fucking too much'?
    ...welcome to the reasons why Blizzard is actively connecting realms right now? Like I've said in my other posts, we can debate endlessly about whether Blizzard is acting in the best interest of its players with the ways that it handles certain aspects of the game. You may personally feel like it's bullshit that Blizzard turns a blind eye to dead/dying realms and lets them stagnate for long periods of time. You may think that Blizzard is intentionally telling people who unfortunately rolled on these servers ages ago that the solution is to pay for a server transfer or deal with it. That's fine. You'll find plenty of people on this forum who agree with this flavor of droll cynicism. My position isn't that Blizzard is providing us with the best solution by slowly connecting dead/dying realms together or that their motivations for doing so will do little more than delay the inevitability of megaservers at some indeterminate point in the games' future. It's simply that many of the proposed solutions you see on this forum are full of reasoning which completely ignores why the game hasn't already moved in this direction; and then, to make it worse, use the droll cynicism I mentioned earlier to paint a picture of Blizzard as an uncaring company who would rather tell you to "fuck off, pay us" than fix all of the games' issues by erasing the concept of realms altogether.
    Last edited by Relapses; 2020-07-28 at 11:55 PM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    My reasoning is less about the viability of cross-realm Mythic and more about why Blizzard is apprehensive to do it. The biggest being the realm identity that you say "doesn't matter anymore" when it very clearly does for certain segments of the game's playerbase.
    I guess I just can't see it if I'm honest.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    ...welcome to the reasons why Blizzard is actively connecting realms right now? Like I've said in my other posts, we can debate endlessly about whether Blizzard is acting in the best interest of its players with the ways that it handles certain aspects of the game. You may personally feel like it's bullshit that Blizzard turns a blind eye to dead/dying realms and lets them stagnate for long periods of time. You may think that Blizzard is intentionally telling people who unfortunately rolled on these servers ages ago that the solution is to pay for a server transfer or deal with it. That's fine. You'll find plenty of people on this forum who agree with this flavor of droll cynicism. My position isn't that Blizzard is providing us with the best solution by slowly connecting dead/dying realms together or that their motivations for doing so will do little more than delay the inevitability of megaservers at some indeterminate point in the games' future. It's simply that many of the proposed solutions you see on this forum are full of reasoning which completely ignores why the game hasn't already moved in this direction; and then, to make it worse, use the droll cynicism I mentioned earlier to paint a picture of Blizzard as an uncaring company who would rather tell you to "fuck off, pay us" than fix all of the games' issues by erasing the concept of realms altogether.
    I mean this is the company that coined the phrases " you think you do but you dont" don't you guys have phones" and " warcraft three reforged"

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    I mean this is the company that coined the phrases " you think you do but you dont" don't you guys have phones" and " warcraft three reforged"
    Believe me, I love a good meme and Blizzard hasn't been doing themselves a whole lot of favors the last few years. That said, there's a lot more to the argument for cross-realm raiding and the importance of realm identity to the game than a lot of players tend to present. The issue WoW has with realms is hardly a new one, though, and I'd like to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt that the main reason they haven't given into pressure from the playerbase to create megaservers is because they've seen how it's played out in other MMOs (check out this video on WSO that I linked earlier) and would prefer to delay that inevitability as long as possible.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Believe me, I love a good meme and Blizzard hasn't been doing themselves a whole lot of favors the last few years. That said, there's a lot more to the argument for cross-realm raiding and the importance of realm identity to the game than a lot of players tend to present. The issue WoW has with realms is hardly a new one, though, and I'd like to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt that the main reason they haven't given into pressure from the playerbase to create megaservers is because they've seen how it's played out in other MMOs (check out this video on WSO that I linked earlier) and would prefer to delay that inevitability as long as possible.
    Wildstar's problem wasn't mega servers it was how awful and grindy its end game was.

    It tried to add ap and covenants without having the cloat blizzard did.

    It offered massive grinds without any previous investment from players. Wow also doesn't really have world content it's a lobby game. If the lobbies can interact it's fine.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentail View Post
    Hey look, another person over-romanticizing the difficulty of TBC. Must have also thought Classic was hard I'd imagine. I remember waltzing around completely destroying all heroic dungeons with my guild about 30 days after BC launched. Most stuff was killed incredibly quick (skipping mechanics) and the longest part of the dungeons is what the longest part is on Classic (and still in on Retail): the actual running time to get through it. LFD could be argued good/bad for a high number of reasons, but the difficulty of the dungeons themselves is definitely not one of them.
    He's not romanticizing it -- he's accurately analyzing it. TBC heroics were tuned with extremely high melee damage and that's a fact. Where a group might have no problem with a Wrath heroic, they would still be torn apart by simple mistakes in a TBC heroic -- especially ones like Shattered Halls, Arcatraz, or the Black Morass.

    Yes, obviously end-game quality players could handle these heroics... why shouldn't they be able to? But, for the rest of the overall population, it was a legitimate challenge and, without a doubt, more challenging than heroics from Wrath, post-nerf Cata, or any later expansion.
    Grand Crusader Belloc <-- 6608 Endless Tank Proving Grounds score! (
    Dragonslayer Kooqu

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    Wildstar's problem wasn't mega servers it was how awful and grindy its end game was.

    It tried to add ap and covenants without having the cloat blizzard did.

    It offered massive grinds without any previous investment from players. Wow also doesn't really have world content it's a lobby game. If the lobbies can interact it's fine.
    WSO clearly had a number of issues but when speaking broad strokes about what ultimately led to its downfall one of the biggest mistakes its developers made was responding to the whims of the community in ways that you often see the people on this forum suggest as "obvious no-brainers."

    Too many players?

    Players: ADD MORE SERVERS, DUH.

    Uh oh, two months later and nobody's playing?

    Players: MERGE ALL SERVERS, DUH.

    Uh oh, now the servers are unstable.

    Players: ADD MORE SERVERS, DUH.

    Meanwhile, the game plummets into freefall and any semblance of community is completely destroyed by the massive swings in how the servers worked.

    The real underlying point I'm making is that if the problem had a solution as "easy" as cross-realm Mythic off the bat, we'd already have seen Blizzard implement it. But apparently simply offering the possibility that the developers aren't actively seeking to make its entire playerbase miserable is enough to get me derisively labeled as a "Blizzard white knight."

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Imagine that an entire region is made up by more than 20 Cutting edge guilds.

    Add like two digits to that number, that might be a little closer.
    If it doesn't happen in any big numbers as it is on the big servers we have were this option is a possiblity (kazzak-Eu has 85 CE guilds etc.), theres nothing to suggest that having more guilds to choose from would change the behavior of more players. Sure, some players would jump around, but thats always the case, that we would all of a sudden see a shift in the entire playerbase mentality because we go from 85 to 850 options is unlikely.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    Ah yes, the good ol "no real Mythic guild experiences this behavior." Any other shitty logical fallacies you'd like to use to support your imaginary claim?
    read again. your response is nonsensical.
    None of us really changes over time. We only become more fully what we are.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    If it doesn't happen in any big numbers as it is on the big servers we have were this option is a possiblity (kazzak-Eu has 85 CE guilds etc.), theres nothing to suggest that having more guilds to choose from would change the behavior of more players.
    Again, that's nothing if you throw them into one giant pool.
    I said four digits, you come around with 85, find the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    that we would all of a sudden see a shift in the entire playerbase mentality because we go from 85 to 850 options is unlikely.
    I didn't say that, nor did any changes similiar to the suggested one showed an instant effect, but a slow one.

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Aphrel View Post
    If it doesn't happen in any big numbers as it is on the big servers we have were this option is a possiblity (kazzak-Eu has 85 CE guilds etc.), theres nothing to suggest that having more guilds to choose from would change the behavior of more players. Sure, some players would jump around, but thats always the case, that we would all of a sudden see a shift in the entire playerbase mentality because we go from 85 to 850 options is unlikely.

    - - - Updated - - -



    read again. your response is nonsensical.
    Imagine thinking that you can speak on behalf of 850 fucking guilds with a straight face.

    You are presenting a No True Scotsman logical fallacy. And it's bullshit.

    Stop.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by otaXephon View Post
    WSO clearly had a number of issues but when speaking broad strokes about what ultimately led to its downfall one of the biggest mistakes its developers made was responding to the whims of the community in ways that you often see the people on this forum suggest as "obvious no-brainers."

    Too many players?

    Players: ADD MORE SERVERS, DUH.

    Uh oh, two months later and nobody's playing?

    Players: MERGE ALL SERVERS, DUH.

    Uh oh, now the servers are unstable.

    Players: ADD MORE SERVERS, DUH.

    Meanwhile, the game plummets into freefall and any semblance of community is completely destroyed by the massive swings in how the servers worked.

    The real underlying point I'm making is that if the problem had a solution as "easy" as cross-realm Mythic off the bat, we'd already have seen Blizzard implement it. But apparently simply offering the possibility that the developers aren't actively seeking to make its entire playerbase miserable is enough to get me derisively labeled as a "Blizzard white knight."
    The issue is wow isnt a open world mmo anymore. O sure a world exists but only as almost tutorial level content. WoW is a lobby game and you can enter every single lobby save one until a time limit has passed.

    I don't see the harm in removing that time limit.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by Krakan View Post
    The issue is wow isnt a open world mmo anymore. O sure a world exists but only as almost tutorial level content. WoW is a lobby game and you can enter every single lobby save one until a time limit has passed.

    I don't see the harm in removing that time limit.
    WoW is not a "lobby game" and incredibly diluted, pointlessly cynical takes like this do little to address the actual problems the game has.

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