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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    Have you ever tried to join a group in WoW?
    Yea, and unless you are a Scrub, there is no Problem.
    Having the Mythic RaidGuilds getting a Weekly Item without running Mythic+ Doesnt change a thing there.


    Quote Originally Posted by burek View Post
    That's not how it worked in most of BfA. M+ got heavily nerfed in 8.3 with the removal of titanforging, but there was at least some sort of compensation at the start with corruptions and high ilvl gear from visions. Shadowlands has nothing like that, instead it nerfs M+ even further in favor of raiding with every announced change so far.
    You realize that this has nothing to do with the Weekly Chest?

    The "Nerfs" are only relevant to End of Dungeon Loot. And are in place because you can generate gear like tenfold in Mythic+ in relation to Raiding.

    You get what? like 3 Items/Boss. Thats 30 Items/Week Split on 20 Players. Thats around 1 Item/Player/week. For around a few hours if you have it on Farm.
    Now, how many Items can you farm in Mythic+ per week?

    Anyhow, either you are Trolling, or you are just complaining for the sake of complaining. So I´m done with you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    Do you have a link for this? Nothing they've announced(or that has been datamined) suggests gear won't be repeated. One of the main goals of the system is to give more choices so when you get repeats you can choose something else.
    I think he meant repeats in the same Chest. So you have 3 Different Items. I would think its safe to assume that way.
    Obviously as unlikely as it may be, You can get 3 Weeks in a row the same 9 Shit items.

  2. #282
    How are you people complaining that this is a thing?????
    LIke even if you literally just unlock ONE more thing per week from this by putting in minimal effort, this is an improvement for you in every possible way compared to the current version. No one is forcing you to unlock all of them. You only pick one anyway. Just doing more (aka putting more effort) increases your chances of getting something you want. AND EVEN THEN THERE IS THE CURRENCY THAT YOU CAN PICK. YOU WILL LITERALLY NEVER GET SOMETHING 100% USELESS NOW JFC.

    PVPers can now get rewarded for doing pvp, raiders can now get rewarded for doing raids and M+ers can now get rewarded for doing M+.
    Well and no lifers can do all 3 of them (assuming you do all 3 to the highest level) and thats ok because they put in the effort.

    If you dont pvp, this is a not issue for you the bottom row basically might as well be non existant because you wont have enough rating for the pvp rewards to be on the same ilvl as your other rewards making that row effectively useless for you.
    If you dont raid this is also a non issue for you as the raid rewards ilvl will be LFR-Normal ilvl. So you dont have to to that row either.
    And if you dont M+ but raid then M+ row is also useless as you ll now be getting the highest possible ilvl from your mythic clears anyway and dont need to do M+. Or you can even do one M 15+ like now and get your chances from 3 to 4 items to choose from.

    This is a blessing in every single possible way you look at it unless you have an unhealthy compulsion to unlock every possible option on your main and 12 alts every single week and feel "forced" to do so in which case you should probably seek medical help.
    Last edited by Delever; 2020-07-31 at 10:02 AM.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by Delever View Post
    How are you people complaining that this is a thing?????
    LIke even if you literally just unlock ONE more thing per week from this by putting in minimal effort, this is an improvement for you in every possible way compared to the current version. No one is forcing you to unlock all of them. You only pick one anyway. Just doing more (aka putting more effort) increases your chances of getting something you want. AND EVEN THEN THERE IS THE CURRENCY THAT YOU CAN PICK. YOU WILL LITERALLY NEVER GET SOMETHING 100% USELESS NOW JFC.

    PVPers can now get rewarded for doing pvp, raiders can now get rewarded for doing raids and M+ers can now get rewarded for doing M+.
    Well and no lifers can do all 3 of them (assuming you do all 3 to the highest level) and thats ok because they put in the effort.

    If you dont pvp, this is a not issue for you the bottom row basically might as well be non existant because you wont have enough rating for the pvp rewards to be on the same ilvl as your other rewards making that row effectively useless for you.
    If you dont raid this is also a non issue for you as the raid rewards ilvl will be LFR-Normal ilvl. So you dont have to to that row either.
    And if you dont M+ but raid then M+ row is also useless as you ll now be getting the highest possible ilvl from your mythic clears anyway and dont need to do M+. Or you can even do one M 15+ like now and get your chances from 3 to 4 items to choose from.

    This is a blessing in every single possible way you look at it unless you have an unhealthy compulsion to unlock every possible option on your main and 12 alts every single week and feel "forced" to do so in which case you should probably seek medical help.
    Quoted for truth.
    The new system is an improvement in every single way.

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Stickiler View Post
    Do you have a link for this? Nothing they've announced(or that has been datamined) suggests gear won't be repeated. One of the main goals of the system is to give more choices so when you get repeats you can choose something else.
    I mean you won't have repeated options in vault, unless system is actually retarded and can give you 3x the same item.

    On average raids has like 20-30 items for your class.
    To get a specific one there is a 1/20 - 1/30 = 3-5% chance to get it
    However next dice roll is 1/19 - 1/29 = 3-5%
    And third roll is 1/18 - 1/28 = 3.5-5.5%

    So compared to current system where you had straight up 3-5% to get something specific, with 3 options it will be like up to 15% chance.

    Given that each week you will get 1-2 items from raid. Vault will stay relevant for at least 8 weeks.

    In first 2 weeks, doing even 1 M+ will yield an upgrade. As time goes on, less and less chance will you have.
    But given that 2 months is time where even mediocre guilds goes to like half of mythic progression, you will want to have additional options just to have a chance to not get trash.
    Last edited by kaminaris; 2020-07-31 at 10:39 AM.

  5. #285
    Just me or is 15 dungeons a bit excessive? Compared to 10 raid bosses which will be pretty easy to achieve without going out of your way if you're a raider.

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Twdft View Post
    Mythic+ item level is determined by the lowest level of the top X dungeons.

    Generally a good idea to prevent people buying 1 boost per week that's way above their normal play. But let's hope "X" isn't to big of a number because it would discourage me from helping friends in low mythic+



    You should explain your opinion a bit, I have no idea why you think it is a nightmare.
    cuz he buys 1 +15 carry a week, raids hc with 3 mythics and crys that he cant get max value for free prob

    Quote Originally Posted by Eazy View Post
    On the wowhead it's said that the weekly M+ drop will be based on your lowest M+ done that week.

    Though I really hope it's going to work as you presented.

    .
    it is the lowest of x = 1,5,15 so if you do 15x +15 a week and after 10x +3s it will count the 15x +15 and you get 3x +15 items to pick from
    Last edited by Feral Druid ist Op; 2020-07-31 at 11:25 AM.
    I.O BFA Season 3


  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    Just me or is 15 dungeons a bit excessive? Compared to 10 raid bosses which will be pretty easy to achieve without going out of your way if you're a raider.
    2 raid days, 6-8 hours to clear a raid?
    Doing a dungeon in time is 30-40min.

    so 12 dungeons would be about comparable in time commitment.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  8. #288
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    2 raid days, 6-8 hours to clear a raid?
    Doing a dungeon in time is 30-40min.

    so 12 dungeons would be about comparable in time commitment.
    Only if you ignore the time it takes between each dungeon (finding a new group etc) and the fact that no good raid takes 6-8 hours to clear a raid on farm.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Only if you ignore the time it takes between each dungeon (finding a new group etc) and the fact that no good raid takes 6-8 hours to clear a raid on farm.
    Realistically speaking its more 45-60 minutes each including downtime between dungeons. Which is like 12-15h

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Only if you ignore the time it takes between each dungeon (finding a new group etc) and the fact that no good raid takes 6-8 hours to clear a raid on farm.
    The equivalent Dungeon player of someone who has a Mythic Raid on farm also doesn't take 40 minutes to do a +15.

    And as I said, I understand people saying 15 is maybe to much and should be closer to 10.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  11. #291
    Again with the retarded systems - why does everything the community asks for must be so fucking complicated. Why cant it be simple? For m+ loot, why cant it just be the dungeon you played most is the item selection and the highest level you did was the ilevel? Why do we need averages, top3 bottom3, whatever when it can be SIMPLE and EFFECTIVE?

  12. #292
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Again with the retarded systems - why does everything the community asks for must be so fucking complicated. Why cant it be simple? For m+ loot, why cant it just be the dungeon you played most is the item selection and the highest level you did was the ilevel? Why do we need averages, top3 bottom3, whatever when it can be SIMPLE and EFFECTIVE?
    Because this isn't complicated?
    You need X activities to open an option. The ilvl is the lowest of the X you did.

    Why is it multiple items instead of just giving you something? Because people complain about RNG and picking from a few choices instead of just getting something feels better and suffers less from RNG.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  13. #293
    Clearing the HC Raid will take 2-3h in a good pug. But doing 15 mythic 15+s dungeons will take about 15-20h(with group finding). I already know i dont want to play any alt in Shadowlands....its just to much work - again.

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    And really, keep in mind that 10/10 Mythic will just not be possible for far more people than 15 decently high level keys will be for at least the first couple of months (which is when the vault loot matters the most). Early on, the dungeons are arguably easier to do than a full Mythic clear. Even for Cutting edge guilds, getting the raid on farm takes time.
    As we don't know what the rewards for the Mythic raid weekly chest will be, what we can only discuss is how long it would take for an equivalent difficulty level would take to fill the gauge: if you compare a guy who does normal raids to cap with a guy who does 15x +5 keys to cap, the latter will require far more effort to finish.

    It's possible that Mythic raids will give a better weekly chest reward than M+ can, and it's possible they increase the maximum reward from M+ to +20. We don't know yet, so we can only compare the relative time investment for a currently equal difficulty/reward level.

  15. #295
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirabai View Post
    Clearing the HC Raid will take 2-3h in a good pug. But doing 15 mythic 15+s dungeons will take about 15-20h(with group finding). I already know i dont want to play any alt in Shadowlands....its just to much work - again.
    Why are you comparing Heroic loot to Mythic loot?

    A HC raid pug should be compared to Mythic 7, not 15.
    It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post
    Again with the retarded systems - why does everything the community asks for must be so fucking complicated. Why cant it be simple? For m+ loot, why cant it just be the dungeon you played most is the item selection and the highest level you did was the ilevel? Why do we need averages, top3 bottom3, whatever when it can be SIMPLE and EFFECTIVE?
    Because a simple (stupid) system like the one you suggest would be so easily abused that it'd be balanced around people abusing it.

    If you think this is complicated you're better off just not trying to learn how it works at all.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Gorsameth View Post
    Why are you comparing Heroic loot to Mythic loot?

    A HC raid pug should be compared to Mythic 7, not 15.
    Well even then 15 mythic+7 - 6-9h vs 3h HC raid.

  18. #298
    This is going to be a good system. People need to let go of the idea that they HAVE to do 15 M+ every week. Just doing one gets you what you have today. If you feel like you have to do 15 a week on top of raiding when you don't do that today, then that is on you, not Blizz. They are creating a system that rewards the folks that play the game more than others.

    Nothing wrong with that.

    If you have trouble getting groups for the content you want to play, then you are doing it wrong. Through Legion and BfA, I've played on 4 servers, in 4 different guilds and have been able to get AOTC and my weekly 15. All of these guilds have nightly M+ groups and they don't care what talents/gear/essences/corruption you have. This system just like those will not impact that if you know how to find the right guild for you.
    #TeamTinkers

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    And really, keep in mind that 10/10 Mythic will just not be possible for far more people than 15 decently high level keys will be for at least the first couple of months (which is when the vault loot matters the most). Early on, the dungeons are arguably easier to do than a full Mythic clear. Even for Cutting edge guilds, getting the raid on farm takes time.
    I think the issue here will be mostly the cost/benefit calculations for mid tier players. You can usually advance to the first few bosses on mythic even with mediocre guilds (if they can fill the roster), on average those players usually do not farm +20 mythics either though. Certainly not the part that aren't playing the fotm class comps. Consistently getting keys in the 15-16 range (I'm assuming 15 to be the current loot-lvl cap here) to complete them in time without getting trash keys will be difficult and time consuming, certainly if you "need" 15 of them each week.

    In general I think the biggest weakness of the system is that the secondary and tertiary options - if you manage to unlock them in the first place - will most likely have lower level loot, making it not worth the effort to unlock them to begin with. It's not just extra effort to get these, it's extra concentrated effort. All just for another shot at getting another option, you don't even get extra loot, just another option. We also have yet to see what the item levels this time around will be, but even if m+15 will reward mythic iLvl rewards, if you raid already you might get one of these items from the raid options anyway with your typical 4-6h/week gaming time. Maybe even two depending on where your current progress is. I doubt many people will find it worth to invest another 2-3 times that time to get another 1 or 2 m+ options of comparable level. At that point you might as well just raid 9h-12h a week during your progress time and get to the magical 7 mythic boss point.

    Btw, I can't shake the feeling that this is a less forgiving system than legion's weekly orderhall raid quest that would usually reward you with a raid item once you had cleared a certain number of boss kills on that difficulty. Though that one did at least count boss kills from past weeks as well. So if you missed your mythic raid this week, you could just do the quest in a normal run and still get your mythic chance for the week.

    Either way, for me personally I don't ever see myself getting much out of the system beyond unlocking a couple of raiding options and one m+ option. I certainly won't spend hours grinding out m+ for a measly chance at badly itemized items.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  20. #300
    Quote Originally Posted by LordVargK View Post
    Quoted for truth.
    The new system is an improvement in every single way.
    NO it ain't. The new system basically tells you "you better play every day because you are screwed if you take any time off for whatever reason". They continue to show they have no clue on the concept of "happy medium".

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