An early look at them great vault, i.e. the new weekly chest.

[LanToaster]

Not the way they are trying to limit gear. YOu should be able to get gear to keep up whenever, not simply at patch time. Missing a week should not mean, "Well, have fun waiting until next patch".

Explain to me, mr Troll. Why do you think you wont get any Items until PatchDay if you miss a week?

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What? AT the start of BfA, if you missed the mythic + cache what other sources of gear did you have exactly to make up for the week you missed that you wont have now? This system is functioning exactly the same way but giving you more choices and a failsafe option.
If you miss one week... well... such is life boohoo. You could have very well done that week and gotten a shitty piece of gear and no gear from raid. Its not as big a deal as you re making it out to be. The highest possible ilvl of gear has always been week limited.

Nonono, you dont get it. If you dont play 24/7, you have to wait until the last Patch of the Addon to do stuff. Because otherwise you need to get new Stuff on the next Season, and that takes to much time.

[Delever]

Explain to me, mr Troll. Why do you think you wont get any Items until PatchDay if you miss a week?

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Nonono, you dont get it. If you dont play 24/7, you have to wait until the last Patch of the Addon to do stuff. Because otherwise you need to get new Stuff on the next Season, and that takes to much time.

Because he is constantly shifting goalposts not realizing that there is currently not a single MMO that compensates you for missing a week.
If you miss a week in FFXIV you dont get the weekly cap on tomestones and you missed a week of raid gear. But you can do it next week its not the end of the world if you miss a week.
Same thing in WoW.

[Jastall]

This looks like pure garbage tbh.

Force everyone to run 15 +15 m+ dungeons to stay competitive, gotta grind those MAU's somehow right, lmao.

Yeah, bullshit. Any guild demanding 15 M+s/week is being ridiculous unless they're aiming for like top 20-30 at most where you deserve everything you get. My GM (top 400) already said that he'll consider us gucci if we get our five done, means 5 loot choices/week for those of us that don't PvP.

Those that do demand 15 dungeons/week will likely burn out their members, break up and die, just like the idiots who wanted their members to farm Maw of Souls like madmen in early Legion. It would be silly to design systems around such a minority of half insane players.

Albeit I would say that the number is too high relative to the rest. Making it 1/3/7 would keep the scale somewhat even. 15 dungeons of a key level that is not trivial is far, far longer than 10 raid bosses or, what, 2-3 hour's worth of Conquest from arenas?

[Delever]

Explain to me, mr Troll. Why do you think you wont get any Items until PatchDay if you miss a week?

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Nonono, you dont get it. If you dont play 24/7, you have to wait until the last Patch of the Addon to do stuff. Because otherwise you need to get new Stuff on the next Season, and that takes to much time.

Its seriously sad that people have developed this unhealthy obsession for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
I didnt play most of Bfa because of personal life. I cam at the end with no gear whatsoever. Building up gear has taken its time. I ve had no problem doing it though or finding parties for M+ or raid even as a ret paladin. I found a nice guild and when I m on I just ask if anyone wants to do an M+. Tadaaaaa!
Am I behind in gear? Yes. Does it matter? No Am I slowly catching up and having fun in the meantime? yes
What would be the point of instantly catching up when you come back? What would be there for you to do??

[Softbottom]

I just realized rrayy is all over this thread. People still entertain this dumb fuck?

[LanToaster]

Because he is constantly shifting goalposts not realizing that there is currently not a single MMO that compensates you for missing a week.
If you miss a week in FFXIV you dont get the weekly cap on tomestones and you missed a week of raid gear. But you can do it next week its not the end of the world if you miss a week.
Same thing in WoW.

Problem with the abundance of Loot in BFA (And to an Extend Legion), these kind of People grew like crazy.

"If I´m not at max Ilvl and decked in BiS items at most by week 3, I dont get the stuff I deserve"

Even if Blizzard would make that every MaxLevel char would automaticly be awarded a MaxIlvl item each week for Logging in. He would complain that he falls behind if he doesnt Log in, and that the system Punishes everybody who doesnt Log in, and there is no conceiable way to play the game without getting the Free items.

I wonder how I could play the game back in Vanilla/BC without Weekly Gifts.

[rrayy]

Am I behind in gear? Yes. Does it matter? No Am I slowly catching up and having fun in the meantime? yes
What would be the point of instantly catching up when you come back? What would be there for you to do??

OYU mean like being able to resume what I was doing when I left? Instead of not being able to do it because my gear level is not enough?

[LanToaster]

Building up gear has taken its time. I ve had no problem doing it though or finding parties for M+ or raid even as a ret paladin. I found a nice guild and when I m on I just ask if anyone wants to do an M+. Tadaaaaa!

Though with my small Twinks I always felt there is this Equipment Hole between 420 and 440, where you are not quite good enough for the Content that awards better gear.

Am I behind in gear? Yes. Does it matter? No Am I slowly catching up and having fun in the meantime? yes
What would be the point of instantly catching up when you come back? What would be there for you to do??

How can you possibly have any fun! I bet you are just around 465! That is unacceptable, you will never have fun. And everyone and their dog will be better. (This is Sarcasm, if its not Obvious)

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OYU mean like being able to resume what I was doing when I left? Instead of not being able to do it because my gear level is not enough?

Yea, Obviously, if you dont play 1 Week, suddenly you need a thousand ItemLevel more than last week for the same Content.

Its a new Feature. All Content now Scales with the player who has the highest Average Itemlevel. So everyone who is more than 10 Ilvl apart from him will be unable to play.

[Swnem]

I just hope they balance it better.

It takes you 2 to 3 hours to kill 10 raid bosses.
It takes you close to 8 hours to run 15 mythic+. Unless they mean a mythic+ level 15.

[Delever]

OYU mean like being able to resume what I was doing when I left? Instead of not being able to do it because my gear level is not enough?

When have you been restricted? I came back, i did the war campaign, i jumped to nazjatar directly, I finished it, then I went to mechagon and did some stuff there and then I started doing invasions and the current dailies and slowly working on my essenses and gear.
How will this be different??

[CalamityHeart]

Yes you can. And you aren't even reading what I am saying. You are screwing EVERYONE who can't be on all the time. THEY are the ones catering to the extreme mindset. The are the ones catering to the no lifers who are on all the time 24/7. What they should be doing is catering to a mindset that encourages moderation. You know, the pro tip they give you on the loading screen. You can't sit there and tell people they should only play WoW in moderation then put in game systems that force you to be on all the time. A system that says the only way to play is to be on 24/7 is a BAD system. So, what we can boil down yoru post to is "Blizzard should cater solely to me and screw everyone that doesn't treat the game like a full time job like me". This is a terrible system and the game is going to be even more barren of players than it already is.

I'm reading what you're saying. The problem is that what you're saying is just pretty dumb, and there's no getting through to you. The system doesn't say the only way to play is to be on 24/7. The system says that it's fine to be on for just long enough to get one pick out of your chest, and it's equally fine to play for however long you want, whether it's an extra 2 hours or an extra 20 hours in the week, to expand the options that you're able to pick out of the chest. It's as simple as that. Almost inarguably so. But consider this.

Let's take the worst-case scenario. What's the absolute worst thing that could possibly happen under this system? You miss a week. You don't even manage to clear on Mythic. You're one item short of everyone else who was able to play the game that week. Your power level is probably slightly less now than it would've been if you were able to pull even a 1-choice from the weekly chest.

Where does that put you, exactly? At least one item below the people who got a usable item from their chest, certainly. But you know where else it puts you? On the same level as everyone else in the game who happened to miss a week, or turned their chest item into currency, or just reached the level that you're at now because they missed the chest last week but managed to get something done this week.

You're not screwed for the entire expansion if you miss a week, because there will be others who missed the same week you did, others who missed the week before, and others who will miss next week. Whatever level you're at, there's always going to be people on that same level that you can continue to do content with, because not everyone shares your insane mindset and feels the need to play this game at a cutthroat, breakneck pace or risk feeling inadequate.

The weekly chest isn't worse than the Mythic cache is now. At worst, it's on the same level. At best, it's a huge step up in the options you have available to pick from. And it's simply not the end of the world if you happen to miss out on a week of playing. To claim it is is just spouting bullshit.

[Nokami]

OYU mean like being able to resume what I was doing when I left? Instead of not being able to do it because my gear level is not enough?

Ngl reading through all the comments here makes me think you are not even playing the game.

[Jastall]

Clearing the HC Raid will take 2-3h in a good pug. But doing 15 mythic 15+s dungeons will take about 15-20h(with group finding). I already know i dont want to play any alt in Shadowlands....its just to much work - again.

Why does your alt needs a vast selection of high tier gear? At some point people need to accept that an alt is an alt, not a second main. Kill, say, 6 bosses in a pug and clear one dungeon- you have 3 choices of potentially good gear, and all that's doable in, what, 3 hours, 4 tops? I don't see that as being overly demanding at all and it's what I'll do on my alts most likely.

[Delever]

Why does your alt needs a vast selection of high tier gear? At some point people need to accept that an alt is an alt, not a second main. Kill, say, 6 bosses in a pug and clear one dungeon- you have 3 choices of potentially good gear, and all that's doable in, what, 3 hours, 4 tops? I don't see that as being overly demanding at all and it's what I'll do on my alts most likely.

^This.... so much this...

[Puremallace]

Let me sum this up. If you are not doing +10's by the end of the 1st week then you are screwed BECAUSE NOONE and I MEAN NOONE will be doing anything below +10 ever again in Shadowlands.

This entire system is busted and anyone with a calculator can show you how doing anything below a +10 screws you extremely hard. So friends with alts or on their mains you are now punished HEAVILY for helping them.

My entire point will easily be provable via RaiderIO data. If you guys think you got screwed before with people leaving in a +10 and the key getting downgraded now imagine boosting that key to a +9 to a +10 but now that +9 guarantees your second tier reward is screwed unless you do 4+ 10'S and atleast 1 +11 to get an average of a +10 award.

Do people not understand how stupid complicated this is going to get?!?!?

All of this crap people tell people about pushing their keys to get good and RaiderIO is not a problem are now wrong because pushing keys below a 10 are going to be nearly impossible to group for and that is a fact. You are HEAVILY punished for pushing keys now.

All of this sheer stupidity to avoid having a simple gear vendor with a currency. Anyone who raids or has a solid guild WILL NEVER understand where casuals are coming from on this system.

Guilds that sell +10s are going to be mandatory for casuals because NOONE is going to risk getting downgraded to a +9 from failing a 10. It sounds good on a spreadsheet which is how Ion designs WoW but applying it to the real world quickly reveals how busted this is.

There is the game Ion thinks WoW is and the game WoW really is with the players.

[kaminaris]

Alright, people who say "but you still get one reward!" have no clue what are they talking about.

Having 3 choices is equivalent of having 3 rewards where all of them can be garbage, and that is equivalent of having 3 weekly chests in a single week.
Or may be actually even stronger than that.

First scenario, current expansion, 1 month.
Assuming you have some decent "entry" gear where not everything that drops is upgrade.

You run a single max reward level M+ and have around 2-3% chance each week to get something useful.
At best you will get 1 good item in a month, 2-3 is possible but highly unlikely. <- and that was a "problem" with current chest

Second scenario, shadowlands, 1 month:
You will have worse gear than at this point in expansion you would normally have because of loot being more rare.

So automatically the chance of getting upgrade is higher 3-6%
While doing just one M+ you will already have a higher possibility of getting 1 reward to the point it's pretty much guaranteed to get at least one upgrade in a month.
BUT! If you do 15 m+, you will have 3 chances, 3 dice rolls each week = 12 dice rolls instead of just 4.
Lets not forget that each subsequent dice roll in a week is actually a higher chance.

So if you do 15x4 M+, you have a real chance to get upgrades each week vs just one.

Also people with OCD are doomed. Altoholics with OCD are screwed 10 times over.

[Doffen]

Why does your alt needs a vast selection of high tier gear? At some point people need to accept that an alt is an alt, not a second main. Kill, say, 6 bosses in a pug and clear one dungeon- you have 3 choices of potentially good gear, and all that's doable in, what, 3 hours, 4 tops? I don't see that as being overly demanding at all and it's what I'll do on my alts most likely.

Yeah, thats me and my alts.

The new weekly chest is great!

[Lollis]

The weekly chest isn't worse than the Mythic cache is now. At worst, it's on the same level. At best, it's a huge step up in the options you have available to pick from. And it's simply not the end of the world if you happen to miss out on a week of playing. To claim it is is just spouting bullshit.

The people saying it is worse are lunatics.

As it currently stands, you have one chance at a random item which may or may not be complete trash. I've lost count of the number of weeks where the item is absolutely garbage and instantly vendored, it's called the chest of disappointment for a reason.

Having the option to 'unlock' an extra roll or two so that I am more likely to get an item that is usable might not be the absolute best way that they could have done it, but it's much better than the current system where that one shitty pair of gloves is all you are getting week in week out.

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Let me sum this up. If you are not doing +10's by the end of the 1st week then you are screwed BECAUSE NOONE and I MEAN NOONE will be doing anything below +10 ever again in Shadowlands.

This entire system is busted and anyone with a calculator can show you how doing anything below a +10 screws you extremely hard. So friends with alts or on their mains you are now punished HEAVILY for helping them.

My entire point will easily be provable via RaiderIO data. If you guys think you got screwed before with people leaving in a +10 and the key getting downgraded now imagine boosting that key to a +9 to a +10 but now that +9 guarantees your second tier reward is screwed unless you do 4+ 10'S and atleast 1 +11 to get an average of a +10 award.

Do people not understand how stupid complicated this is going to get?!?!?

All of this crap people tell people about pushing their keys to get good and RaiderIO is not a problem are now wrong because pushing keys below a 10 are going to be nearly impossible to group for and that is a fact. You are HEAVILY punished for pushing keys now.

All of this sheer stupidity to avoid having a simple gear vendor with a currency. Anyone who raids or has a solid guild WILL NEVER understand where casuals are coming from on this system.

Guilds that sell +10s are going to be mandatory for casuals because NOONE is going to risk getting downgraded to a +9 from failing a 10. It sounds good on a spreadsheet which is how Ion designs WoW but applying it to the real world quickly reveals how busted this is.

There is the game Ion thinks WoW is and the game WoW really is with the players.

If you don't do five +10 then you don't deserve the five x +10 reward- Because you didn't do five +10s.
If you do four +9 and one +10 or four +10 and one +9, you didnt do five +10s did you?

Its very very simple:

The tiers are 1 / 5 / 15

If you run a single +10, you will get a choice of +10 / none / none
If you run a single +10 and four +9, you will get a choice of +10 / +9 / none
If you run two +10s and four +9, you will get a choice of +10 / +9 / none
If you run five +10s and four +9, you will get a choice of +10 / +10 / none
If you run eleven +10 and six +9, you will get a choice of +10 / +10 / +9
If you run fifteen +10 and six +9, you will get a choice of +10 / +10 / +10

Doing +9s instead of +10s doesn't hurt your previous +10 work, just like running a +14 now does nothing to your +15. All it means is that you wasted some time.

[bowchikabow]

The idea with the great vault (at least from Blizz's point of view) is that you should be rewarded for the area of the game that you dedicate your time to.

In their mind, this is probably a system meant to funnel you into spending more time in the content that you like doing. When in reality, this will just turn into "OH MAN.. I gotta clear the whole raid, AND do 15 15's, AND cap conquest so I have the best selection of possible loot for MAYBE 1 upgrade"

Asmongold said it right: Ion has one view of how the game should be, the player has a view of the game by how it is actually played. Perception vs reality.

also:

No matter how many objectives you complete, you'll still only get to pick one gear reward. Objectives give you more gear options, not more gear.

from the WoWhead article, for clarity sake.

[Stickiler]

Let me sum this up. If you are not doing +10's by the end of the 1st week then you are screwed BECAUSE NOONE and I MEAN NOONE will be doing anything below +10 ever again in Shadowlands.

This entire system is busted and anyone with a calculator can show you how doing anything below a +10 screws you extremely hard. So friends with alts or on their mains you are now punished HEAVILY for helping them.

My entire point will easily be provable via RaiderIO data. If you guys think you got screwed before with people leaving in a +10 and the key getting downgraded now imagine boosting that key to a +9 to a +10 but now that +9 guarantees your second tier reward is screwed unless you do 4+ 10'S and atleast 1 +11 to get an average of a +10 award.

Do people not understand how stupid complicated this is going to get?!?!?

All of this crap people tell people about pushing their keys to get good and RaiderIO is not a problem are now wrong because pushing keys below a 10 are going to be nearly impossible to group for and that is a fact. You are HEAVILY punished for pushing keys now.

All of this sheer stupidity to avoid having a simple gear vendor with a currency. Anyone who raids or has a solid guild WILL NEVER understand where casuals are coming from on this system.

Guilds that sell +10s are going to be mandatory for casuals because NOONE is going to risk getting downgraded to a +9 from failing a 10. It sounds good on a spreadsheet which is how Ion designs WoW but applying it to the real world quickly reveals how busted this is.

There is the game Ion thinks WoW is and the game WoW really is with the players.

The issue with your whole post is you've based your rant on this(imo fabricated) idea that the ilvl will be based on the average of your runs, instead of an absolute value based on number of runs.If I do 5 M+, and I fail one and thus I do four 10s, and the fifth is a 9, I get a 10 choice and a 9 choice, unless I do another 10, in which case that new 10 bumps the 9 out of my top 5 runs, and I get two 10 choices. If I do an 11 instead, it also bumps the other runs downwards, so now the 11 is my top 1 run, and my top 5 runs are 11,10,10,10,10, and I get an 11 choice and a 10 choice.

Pushing keys will always be important in this system, and downgrading a key isn't going to have any other downsides than what it does now in BFA, where you'll need to time your key to get it back up.