Why so much hate for Tinkerer?

[TheRevenantHero]

Maybe people should start advocating for more tinker friendly races on the Horde 1st, seeing as how they have only 1 tech savvy class and the Alliance have been 3, maybe 4. Alli have Draenai, Gnomes, Dwarves, and humans (maybe) that have demonstrated the ability to use & craft inventions on the fly. Horde have Goblins.
Keep in mind I’m not just discussing the ability to use tech, but to actually develop and build it.

Nightborne, mag'har, orcs, blood elves, and forsaken are all tech savvy.

[Trazzle]

No, not that they’re establishing technology in general but that specific esthetic. A generalized and updated range of models in which they can use for all sorts of stuff, such as de other side.

I certainly believe that blizzard is capable of planning far in advance, I think Legion is a great example of this.

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The fact that it was a daily hub and featured a dungeon further suggests to me blizzards purpose in that it makes us as players more comfortable and familiar with that environment and style.

[Ielenia]

No, not that they’re establishing technology in general but that specific esthetic. A generalized and updated range of models in which they can use for all sorts of stuff, such as de other side.

Mechagon doesn't introduce any new aesthetic. The mechagnome's technology's aesthetic is the same one as the gnomes.

I certainly believe that blizzard is capable of planning far in advance, I think Legion is a great example of this.

If I may ask: how? How is Legion a "great example" of Blizzard "planning far in advance"?

[bloodmoth13]

Why not?

Holy Shock, Exorcism, and Judgement have all had full caster range at various times, and that's most of a rotation right there. Add in a ranged-spec only filler spell (or these days give it Exorcism back), and a Holy Power dump and it's set.

I don't think it's a necessary addition, or particularly interesting, but it's hardly a big stretch from what Paladins have tended to have in their toolkit in the past when Ret made up for low mobility with the ability to do some damage at range and to build Holy Power with that damage so when they did get melee contact they could do good burst.

Having range was compensation for low mobility, they are still melee. A holy caster spec would fit right in for a priest, and basically that would be what it would boil down to.
Also i dont like the idea of a plate armor wearer shooting light at people, its stupid.

Though, i think classes should be dismantled entirely and let players pick a collection of specs.

[Triceron]

That is a crazy amount of development time to introduce a reasonably low interest allied race, which I image blizzard would be aware of considering they know what percentage of the community plays gnomes.

Considering how much of the Gnome is reused, it seems like it would be considerably less time than adding the Clockwork Mechagnomes that people actually wanted. Instead, we got junker gnomes which are currently the new least-picked race of all races, and comparatively of allied races. This is even despite them having some pretty strong racial abilities.

[Trollokdamus]

They introduced mechagon to introduce mechagnomes - you have played the expansion, yes?

Yes, I have played the expansion. And no, they didn't introduce Mechagon to introduce Mechagnomes. I'm not even sure that making them an allied race was the original plan and not an afterthought. The latter seems more likely to me, all things considered.

[arkanon]

Yes, I have played the expansion. And no, they didn't introduce Mechagon to introduce Mechagnomes. I'm not even sure that making them an allied race was the original plan and not an afterthought. The latter seems more likely to me, all things considered.

Considering what things? Considering it was literally used in game to introduce the mechagnomes, and the unlocking of the allied race is literally tied to the island, there is plenty of evidence proving it was absolutely used to introduce them. You are making a counter claim with zero evidence, other than saying "all things considered"

[Trollokdamus]

Considering what things? Considering it was literally used in game to introduce the mechagnomes, and the unlocking of the allied race is literally tied to the island, there is plenty of evidence proving it was absolutely used to introduce them. You are making a counter claim with zero evidence, other than saying "all things considered"

Saying "there is plenty of evidence" without expanding on it is also a claim with zero evidence by the way. So, where is your evidence? The fact that the unlocking questline takes place on Mechagon cannot be considered evidence as it was added post-factum.

As I see it, Mechagon wasn't used to introduce Mechagnomes specifically, it was used to introduce a new and original setting for players not to get Nazjatar/EP fatigue. Mechagnomes just happened to be part of that setting. The intention was also to try and create an improved sandbox zone with new features added to it.

By saying "all things considered", I meant, first of all, the way the island had been set up. Rustbolt Resistance being a neutral faction, Mechagnomes establishing ties with Goblins and all that. I mean, players don't particularly enjoy it when a faction they've been helping suddenly joins the opposite side and becomes an enemy. Blizzard had made this mistake with Nightborne and supposedly learned their lesson so I don't see them deliberately planning to do it again and frustrate their players even more. Secondly, I feel like Mechagnomes hadn't been originally intended to become an allied race considering the way they look. Mechanical limbs which are impossible to cover with armor is something we've never seen before. Not to mention there is literally no armor in the game that would make them look good, largely due to the said limbs. Another reason is lore. You mean to tell me that Blizzard created this unique group of gnomes with unorthodox culture and world view only to merge them with the rest of the gnomes in the end? That's ridiculous.

[Eapoe]

The Mag'har orcs are technically tech-oriented, at least in the sense that they don't shy away from using technology like the rest of the other Horde races. I also believe blood elves and forsaken to be also two races that could be tech-class material.

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As if technology hasn't been a part of the franchise's universe, yet?


Do you really think Blizzard plans that far ahead? That's like saying TBC was done "with the intention of establishing demon hunters as a possible future class".


It's not "just to add" an allied race. It's also a daily quest spot, with pets to collect, achievements to acquire and rares to hunt.

Like I stated though, it’s not the using the tech that’s the issue, it’s the fact that they don’t really build it or invent new things. Everything tech related in reference to the Horde pretty much comes from the Goblins.

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Nightborne, mag'har, orcs, blood elves, and forsaken are all tech savvy.

They use the tech. They don’t really build or invent anything without the Goblins inventing the plans for them.

[Ielenia]

Like I stated though, it’s not the using the tech that’s the issue, it’s the fact that they don’t really build it or invent new things. Everything tech related in reference to the Horde pretty much comes from the Goblins.

Not quite. The dreadnaught ships that the Iron Horde used? Designed by an orc.

And, like I've said several times in this thread: this "tinkers invent" is meaningless. NPC tinkers would invent. The playable class? Nope. Because the playable classes have mentors and trainers. Our characters lean the vast majority of what they know from their mentors and trainers. Because the adventurer (i.e. player character) is busy going from town to town to help people, and fighting "big bads" while the others stay in the back lines, researching and building what needs to be done.

So this "they must be able to invent" is not exactly a valid argument. Which is why we can add races like mag'har, blood elves, etc.

[arkanon]

Saying "there is plenty of evidence" without expanding on it is also a claim with zero evidence by the way. So, where is your evidence? The fact that the unlocking questline takes place on Mechagon cannot be considered evidence as it was added post-factum.

As I see it, Mechagon wasn't used to introduce Mechagnomes specifically, it was used to introduce a new and original setting for players not to get Nazjatar/EP fatigue. Mechagnomes just happened to be part of that setting. The intention was also to try and create an improved sandbox zone with new features added to it.

By saying "all things considered", I meant, first of all, the way the island had been set up. Rustbolt Resistance being a neutral faction, Mechagnomes establishing ties with Goblins and all that. I mean, players don't particularly enjoy it when a faction they've been helping suddenly joins the opposite side and becomes an enemy. Blizzard had made this mistake with Nightborne and supposedly learned their lesson so I don't see them deliberately planning to do it again and frustrate their players even more. Secondly, I feel like Mechagnomes hadn't been originally intended to become an allied race considering the way they look. Mechanical limbs which are impossible to cover with armor is something we've never seen before. Not to mention there is literally no armor in the game that would make them look good, largely due to the said limbs. Another reason is lore. You mean to tell me that Blizzard created this unique group of gnomes with unorthodox culture and world view only to merge them with the rest of the gnomes in the end? That's ridiculous.

I provided my evidence. What kind of nonsensical rambling is this post? Seriously, you are being completely illogical and using your opinion as evidence. The FACT is that Mechagon was used to introduce the mechagnomes - this isnt an opinion, it is a fact. The island is intrinsically linked to the race - this isnt an opinion - its a fact. You can throw as much word salad at this as you want - you are not making ANY sense at all - its just asinine rambling.

Everything you claim is entirely opinion based - with literally ZERO evidence to support it, while every claim i have made is 100% factual. Want further eveidence that you are using your opinion to try and counter facts?

the way I see it (also to my way of thinking) used before telling someone your opinion - everything in the post is opinion; they look silly, armor doesnt look good on them, blizzard wouldn't do this (again - proving in fact they HAVE done it)

Its fine to have opinions - but stop being so ignorant - your opinions do not override the FACT that Mechagon was used in BfA to introduce the Mechagnomes, and unlocking them is 100% tied to the island. Those are facts - what you have provided are opinions and conspiracy theories.

[TheRevenantHero]

Like I stated though, it’s not the using the tech that’s the issue, it’s the fact that they don’t really build it or invent new things. Everything tech related in reference to the Horde pretty much comes from the Goblins.

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They use the tech. They don’t really build or invent anything without the Goblins inventing the plans for them.

Are....are you kidding me? Blood elves did NOT build their shit with the help of goblins and neither did the Nightborne. I don't think the Forsaken did either. The only race that you can say had help from the goblins is the orcs.

[arkanon]

Like I stated though, it’s not the using the tech that’s the issue, it’s the fact that they don’t really build it or invent new things. Everything tech related in reference to the Horde pretty much comes from the Goblins.

Yeah this is completely false, i have absolutely no idea why you think this.

[therealbowser]

Been a while since I last posted here, but I saw this thread and I decided that I'll bite.

The reason is really simple. They don't hate tinkerers, they are just obsessed with some other class that has a 0% chance of being added and they get violently defensive when tinkerers are talked about or even merely mentioned because they know the class is popular and has a high chance of being added -- if any class will ever be added again -- so they take it as a personal attack since it is putting their preferred class at 'risk'. Alternatively, they obsessively hate the idea of new classes and assume that any new class is going to 'take away from [content they prefer]". It's absolutely ludicrous but there you go.

Trying to argue that this is not how things work is futile, and people who are getting this angry about it to begin with are not going to be convinced with a discussion so I would recommend not wasting your time. Blizzard knows that Tinkerers are the most fitting and most desired class right now, but honestly they may just have decided not to add any more classes because it adds to game complexity and Blizzard is all about reducing the amount of work/cost needed for producing content.

Again, when you run into people like this, don't waste your time arguing with them. They can't be convinced, and trying is just going to frustrate everyone involved. (And this applies to any other topic of discussion with fanatics like this.)

[arkanon]

Been a while since I last posted here, but I saw this thread and I decided that I'll bite.

The reason is really simple. They don't hate necromancers, they are just obsessed with some other class like Tinker that has a 0% chance of being added and they get violently defensive when necromancers are talked about or even merely mentioned because they know the class is popular and has a high chance of being added -- if any class will ever be added again -- so they take it as a personal attack since it is putting their preferred class at 'risk'. Alternatively, they obsessively hate the idea of new classes and assume that any new class is going to 'take away from [content they prefer]". It's absolutely ludicrous but there you go.

There you go - the same but different! Your post isnt grounded in reality - multiple polls have necro and tinker very close - the idea that Tinker is the only realistic option for a new class, as you suggest, also goes against your own post history.

[qwerty123456]

Yes, I have played the expansion. And no, they didn't introduce Mechagon to introduce Mechagnomes. I'm not even sure that making them an allied race was the original plan and not an afterthought. The latter seems more likely to me, all things considered.

They hinted at mechagnomes with the little mechagnome area in Boralus. Why would that area exist in BFA if it was an afterthought? And considering they were making allied races based off every race what on Earth do you think they were planning for gnomes? I mean it could be possible that they were intending to full mechagnomes and half-assed it at the last minute or aftering coming up with the full idea of Mechagon they decided to change it but I highly doubt they had a non mechagnome idea for them. Vulpera were clearly planned as an allied race way early in the development cycle. What else would Alliance have gotten? There's no hints at any other gnome sized race in BFA but the mechagnome area in Boralus.

[Ielenia]

Been a while since I last posted here, but I saw this thread and I decided that I'll bite.

The reason is really simple. They don't hate tinkerers, they are just obsessed with some other class that has a 0% chance of being added and they get violently defensive when tinkerers are talked about or even merely mentioned because they know the class is popular and has a high chance of being added -- if any class will ever be added again -- so they take it as a personal attack since it is putting their preferred class at 'risk'. Alternatively, they obsessively hate the idea of new classes and assume that any new class is going to 'take away from [content they prefer]". It's absolutely ludicrous but there you go.

So... instead of writing a constructive post, you decided to instead attack those who don't like the idea of a tech class or have their doubts about it? Way to go.

Again, when you run into people like this, don't waste your time arguing with them. They can't be convinced, and trying is just going to frustrate everyone involved. (And this applies to any other topic of discussion with fanatics like this.)

This line feels incredibly ironic, and lacking self-awareness, considering the rest of what you wrote.

[cocomen2]

Been a while since I last posted here, but I saw this thread and I decided that I'll bite.

The reason is really simple. They don't hate tinkerers, they are just obsessed with some other class that has a 0% chance of being added and they get violently defensive when tinkerers are talked about or even merely mentioned because they know the class is popular and has a high chance of being added -- if any class will ever be added again -- so they take it as a personal attack since it is putting their preferred class at 'risk'. Alternatively, they obsessively hate the idea of new classes and assume that any new class is going to 'take away from [content they prefer]". It's absolutely ludicrous but there you go.

Trying to argue that this is not how things work is futile, and people who are getting this angry about it to begin with are not going to be convinced with a discussion so I would recommend not wasting your time. Blizzard knows that Tinkerers are the most fitting and most desired class right now, but honestly they may just have decided not to add any more classes because it adds to game complexity and Blizzard is all about reducing the amount of work/cost needed for producing content.

Again, when you run into people like this, don't waste your time arguing with them. They can't be convinced, and trying is just going to frustrate everyone involved. (And this applies to any other topic of discussion with fanatics like this.)

(it feels like comedy , with evil benny hill gnome-cosplayer)

At this point, are there anyone who still cant get why people hate on tinker-fans?


Its like saying "You got 0% and you 0% , fella you too 0%.... only my precious tinker has rights to have 100%" ;

I mean its okay to say 0% if you are ION himself... but to be correct,you are not ? (some friend works for blizz? insideinfo?)




P.S. Wish i was so hypocrite and mad, to go around and

deny other people their excitement just cause you are not excited by it.

just like tinker-fans do, image me popping in EACH possible class thread and say clown things like "Your class idea has 0%, why? couz my tinker is superior"

[Eapoe]

Not quite. The dreadnaught ships that the Iron Horde used? Designed by an orc.

And, like I've said several times in this thread: this "tinkers invent" is meaningless. NPC tinkers would invent. The playable class? Nope. Because the playable classes have mentors and trainers. Our characters lean the vast majority of what they know from their mentors and trainers. Because the adventurer (i.e. player character) is busy going from town to town to help people, and fighting "big bads" while the others stay in the back lines, researching and building what needs to be done.

So this "they must be able to invent" is not exactly a valid argument. Which is why we can add races like mag'har, blood elves, etc.

Sure, yet he is considered a prodigy. He also used the technology that Garrosh brought with him that was designed by, guess who, Goblins.

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Are....are you kidding me? Blood elves did NOT build their shit with the help of goblins and neither did the Nightborne. I don't think the Forsaken did either. The only race that you can say had help from the goblins is the orcs.

What did Blood Elves build? Their “technology” is actually based off of Arcane magic.
Same with the Nightborne. All of their constructs are magic infused, not technological advancement of automatons.

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Yeah this is completely false, i have absolutely no idea why you think this.

What’s false? As I stated with the other people, the Horde races technology is all magic based. Constructs of the BEs and NB are infused and automated with magic. Trolls don’t really have anything that stands out as tech related. Same with the Orcs. Tauren are nature based creatures who have shown to have no real tech beyond pulleys and levers for their lifts. Forsaken are dead humans so my point still stands there.
The most tech they had before Goblins were the zeppelins for travel points, with gunships being from Goblin design.

[Mectrid]

All of their constructs are magic infused, not technological advancement of automatons.

Who said that Tinkers constructs won't be magic infused? I can see reason for there being both sides to it to be honest. Otherwise the class would only fit Gnomes/Goblins. Adding the magic infusion aspect similar to Artificers in D&D would open the class to many more races.