An early look at them great vault, i.e. the new weekly chest.

[Doffen]

23 pages because of datamined strings lmaoo

Yeah, blizzard have said nothing about this datamined info yet. We don't really know more that you can do different kind of content to get a weekly chest and that you will get more choices when asked about this earlier.

It can really be as easy as you can get max 3 choices to pick from, and not all 9. They even said examples of 3-4 choices before when talking about the new weekly chest. So that you can get 9 choices seems very unlikely to me. It's double/triple the choices they talked about before. What wowhead wrote is just speculation. Seeing there are 3 rows for each activity, it could imply that if you don't like to do dungeons, but only raid, you can do only raid and choose from three rewards. And then doing the other things, wouldn't give you more choices, but if you do heroic raiding and do 15 m+, you would want to do that instead because the ilvl is higher. Which would be the only concern for those who want the best they could get. We just don't know how it will work in practice yet.

But the world is falling over!

[goldlock]

From the strings we know that at least the mythic+ version is supposed to be based on the item level of the lowest dungeon in your last y (most like 1/5/15) runs. I think it is fairly reasonable to assume that each line has it's own calculation. Now, if it would take your highest ilvl from any one line and somehow applies it to the others, then the system starts to get interesting for everyone. But I doubt they'd hand out mythic iLvl gear by just cleaning up a few m+.

I kinda hope they can influence each other. How many pvpers would love to be able to select a mythic raid trinket and how many mythic raiders would want that one perfectly itemized pvp slot?

It would still only reward one slot... though I do wonder how elite skins would be handled...

[bowchikabow]

In general I agree with the statement that οften times the views of the community are not in line with how Ion views the game.
However the bolded statement is entirely a problem of the community and an unhealthy obsession that needs to be internally worked out on an individual basis.

I don't disagree that it is entirely community driven. That said, having a system that.. By design.. increases your odds of gaining something of value, and gating it behind a large set of content from varying areas of the game, while not providing a kind of diminishing returns for over-achieving try-hard players seems like a bad mix.

They found a way to reward players who put in effort without taking away from the players who put no effort.
I don't get where this entitlement has generated from the people who put no effort in anyway.
That being said:
1.) Do I think 15 dungeons is disproportionately long compared to the other 2? Yes and I m almost sure its a placeholder number at this point
2.) Do I think making your reward the lowest of your last x runs might be problematic because it will create a situation where people who are lets say 4/5 on their second one will never want to run a mythic dungeon to help a friend who has a +3 or if someone gets into M+ a little bit later they will have a hell of a time finding a group for low keys.

My biggest worry is that this will create a windfall for carry groups, since now there will be no incentive for them to run lower level keys.. Just sell +15 runs. That is one. The other: This will take us from alt unfriendly xpack (which BfA was, writ large) to being alt mandatory (the alt can take the key level hit to help lower key guildies, and in some communities this will become a requirement/requisite). I am not advocating or agreeing with it, simply stating that is possible/likely to happen. And it won't end well for the community.

However. Despite the intense trolling and entitlement whining on the covenant of mental gymnastics that is the MMOC forums, blizzard has shown signs of listening in this alpha/beta and have continued to make drastic changes to their systems one by one when there is a massive outcry from the community unlike previous alphas and betas.
So this time I ll give them the benefit of the doubt.
I m more so worried about the second one rather than the 1st one because it could lead to a situation where people don't wanna do lower M+s to help people making it harder to find groups.

Sorry, they don't get the benefit of the doubt.... They get the benefit of us participating, and giving feedback. Sorry, but BotD went out the window with 8.1, 8.2, and 8.4 imo.

[klogaroth]

My biggest worry is that this will create a windfall for carry groups, since now there will be no incentive for them to run lower level keys.. Just sell +15 runs. That is one. The other: This will take us from alt unfriendly xpack (which BfA was, writ large) to being alt mandatory (the alt can take the key level hit to help lower key guildies, and in some communities this will become a requirement/requisite). I am not advocating or agreeing with it, simply stating that is possible/likely to happen. And it won't end well for the community.

What are you on about with alts?

Based on what we've seen and heard it is currently planned to work something like this:

* Take all the dungeons you do in a week, list them in rank order, high to low.
* The dungeon in first place determines the level of option number 1
* The dungeon in fifth place determines the level of option number 2
* The dungeon in fifteenth place determines the level of option number 3

Here's a table with that information laid out with an example selection of 15 dungeon runs that were done in a week:

+10	you get an option of +10 ilvl bracket
+10
+10
+9
+8	you get an option of +8 ilvl bracket
+8
+7
+7
+4
+4
+4
+2
+2
+2
+2	you get an option of +2 ilvl bracket

If after you had run these 15, you then went and did another 12 +10 dungeons that week, all the top 15 dungeons for that week would be +10s, and all 3 options would be from the +10 ilvl bracket.

How does this stop you from running low level keys with friends? If you weren't going to run that many dungeons before, those options never would have been open. If you run 15 +10s, you can do whatever the hell else you want, and still get 3 options from the +10 ilvl bracket.

It's also possible that they go with a more generous version, which uses the average of top 5 and average of top 15.

The takeaway is this:

You always get an option based on the highest dungeon you run that week, and even if you only do a single dungeon a week, you're still better off because you have the option to take a currency if you don't like the item. If you do any other content, you are much better off, because you have much more choice.

If you did PvP and PvE boxes - now you have a PvP vendor to go along with the chest. Where you can precisely target a slot.

[Kalisandra]

I prefer to run 8 dungeons with 8 different characters than with just 1 toon. And hey, guess what, those 8 dungeons will only give you one additional choice, nothing more, sounds pretty bad.

If the game is supposed to be designed at only the average guy, well I bet you the average guy doesn't run over 5 m+ a week.

If you run 8 dungeons on 8 toons you're no worse off than now, so no problem. One could argue that you're better off than the person with one toon who ran 8 dungeons on thier only character and got two pieces of gear to choose from, and only one actual piece of gear that week - and they are still better off than they are now. So, nobody is losing compared to now, and yet somehow it's terrible and Blizzard is mean and nasty.

- - - Updated - - -

You are a mythic raider. This system hugely benefits mythic raiders. With current playstyles, mythic raiders would be getting multiple high ilvl choices every week.

Most other people, with current playstyles, would be usually getting 0 or 1 high ilvl choices every week. No improvement unless you change your playstyle (aka start raiding mythic since M+ is gonna be a waste of time with all the nerfs).

These days my guildies are mostly casual, and we raid heroic level until the raid's on farm, and then usually lack the numbers to keep raiding until the next raid comes out. We do m+ after raid and on nights when we don't have enough people to raid. We probably average 2-3 m+ a week (usually in the +12 to +14 range because we're lazy, filthy, casuals), though the altoholics do quite a lot more because they do 1-2 m+ runs per alt as well. This system will see us getting probably 3-4 choices while the raid is still active, and 1-2 after that, which is much better than the one 'choice' we get now. To be fair, at the moment we get residuum as well, so we currently slowly get azerite pieces as well as the loot piece from the box, but even so, this is an improvement.

Consider that currently raiding gets you nothing from the weekly box, so for raidloggers it's a flat bonus.

[razorpax]

best change

lower the required numbers for the dungeons and raid bosses though

also the idea that you need to do more than one high m+ for the week is great
the chance of now getting raid loot is great (trinkets are always elusive)
no matter what content you do you will be rewarded heck my alts will get loot just from farm or lfr

- - - Updated - - -

I prefer to run 8 dungeons with 8 different characters than with just 1 toon. And hey, guess what, those 8 dungeons will only give you one additional choice, nothing more, sounds pretty bad.

If the game is supposed to be designed at only the average guy, well I bet you the average guy doesn't run over 5 m+ a week.

you know the average guy may only run 1 mythic dungeon a week
he might also only run lfr
heck he may do the weekly conquest cap for free loot

that means average joe gets 3 choices

- - - Updated - - -

What are you on about with alts?

Based on what we've seen and heard it is currently planned to work something like this:

* Take all the dungeons you do in a week, list them in rank order, high to low.
* The dungeon in first place determines the level of option number 1
* The dungeon in fifth place determines the level of option number 2
* The dungeon in fifteenth place determines the level of option number 3

Here's a table with that information laid out with an example selection of 15 dungeon runs that were done in a week:

+10	you get an option of +10 ilvl bracket
+10
+10
+9
+8	you get an option of +8 ilvl bracket
+8
+7
+7
+4
+4
+4
+2
+2
+2
+2	you get an option of +2 ilvl bracket

If after you had run these 15, you then went and did another 12 +10 dungeons that week, all the top 15 dungeons for that week would be +10s, and all 3 options would be from the +10 ilvl bracket.

How does this stop you from running low level keys with friends? If you weren't going to run that many dungeons before, those options never would have been open. If you run 15 +10s, you can do whatever the hell else you want, and still get 3 options from the +10 ilvl bracket.

It's also possible that they go with a more generous version, which uses the average of top 5 and average of top 15.

The takeaway is this:

You always get an option based on the highest dungeon you run that week, and even if you only do a single dungeon a week, you're still better off because you have the option to take a currency if you don't like the item. If you do any other content, you are much better off, because you have much more choice.

If you did PvP and PvE boxes - now you have a PvP vendor to go along with the chest. Where you can precisely target a slot.

its probably based off of the amount of a certain level since weve had this kind of invisible system before

for example if out of your 15 weekly dungeons you run 8 +15 then youre gonna get a +15 ilvl piece

weve heard nothing to suggest otherwise and nothing to even support this

[Hinastorm]

Not thrilled about feeling like I have to engage in the bloated nitemare that is mmo PvP to increase my chances at good PvE gear.

I'll just have to see how annoying it will be. If it's as terrible as I imagine, i'll just skip it I guess.

[MakeMeLaugh]

If you run 8 dungeons on 8 toons you're no worse off than now, so no problem. One could argue that you're better off than the person with one toon who ran 8 dungeons on thier only character and got two pieces of gear to choose from, and only one actual piece of gear that week - and they are still better off than they are now. So, nobody is losing compared to now, and yet somehow it's terrible and Blizzard is mean and nasty.

I know, my point was to people that said it's an improvement to everyone, which it isn't. As you said, on my example, nothing will change. They should give baseline 2 options to everyone, and then increase options from there. Also reduce the number of M+'s required to increase choices, 5 and 15 is a ridiculous amount compared to the clearing 1 raid or capping conquest.

you know the average guy may only run 1 mythic dungeon a week
he might also only run lfr
heck he may do the weekly conquest cap for free loot

that means average joe gets 3 choices

Yes, but the extra choices are based on the difficulty you ran them. So the extra choices from LFR are going to be absolute crap.

[burek]

This system will see us getting probably 3-4 choices while the raid is still active, and 1-2 after that, which is much better than the one 'choice' we get now.

Your raid options would be inferior to your m+ option. Wasting your weekly chest to get an item available in the heroic raid is rarely going to be a good idea.

[razorpax]

I know, my point was to people that said it's an improvement to everyone, which it isn't. As you said, on my example, nothing will change. They should give baseline 2 options to everyone, and then increase options from there. Also reduce the number of M+'s required to increase choices, 5 and 15 is a ridiculous amount compared to the clearing 1 raid or capping conquest.




Yes, but the extra choices are based on the difficulty you ran them. So the extra choices from LFR are going to be absolute crap.

for your average joe it will be

- - - Updated - - -

Your raid options would be inferior to your m+ option. Wasting your weekly chest to get an item available in the heroic raid is rarely going to be a good idea.

really niche situation but it will happen

Lets say that my guild has heroic almost on farm and i still havent gotten my BiS trinket/weapon that i want to get over the other members of my team (i know removal of master loot but hang with me for a second). It pops up in the cache meaning i can choose that piece of loot and mark it off my list so now if it drops in the raid i can trade it thus meaning more gear for the team as a whole.

[klogaroth]

its probably based off of the amount of a certain level since weve had this kind of invisible system before

for example if out of your 15 weekly dungeons you run 8 +15 then youre gonna get a +15 ilvl piece

weve heard nothing to suggest otherwise and nothing to even support this

I'm basing this on the followling datamined string:

WEEKLY_REWARDS_COMPLETE_MYTHIC
Complete Mythic Level %1$d dungeons. The reward is based on the lowest level of your top %2$d runs.

(from https://www.wowhead.com/news=317170/...y-cache-reward)

Where %2$d is the string that corresponds to the 1, 5, and 15 option boxes. So "The reward is based on the lowest level of your top 5 runs." or "The reward is based on the lowest level of your top 15 runs."

Which precisely supports the table in my previous post.

This is not final. It isn't even implemented into the beta yet. But so far, what has been datamined suggests the current plan is the system I outlined.

[razorpax]

I'm basing this on the followling datamined string:

WEEKLY_REWARDS_COMPLETE_MYTHIC
Complete Mythic Level %1$d dungeons. The reward is based on the lowest level of your top %2$d runs.

(from https://www.wowhead.com/news=317170/...y-cache-reward)

Where %2$d is the string that corresponds to the 1, 5, and 15 option boxes. So "The reward is based on the lowest level of your top 5 runs." or "The reward is based on the lowest level of your top 15 runs."

Which precisely supports the table in my previous post.

This is not final. It isn't even implemented into the beta yet. But so far, what has been datamined suggests the current plan is the system I outlined.

ok yeah i misread that
looks like rewards would be
1. +15
2. +8
3. +2
you would still get your high piece but lower ilvl options that may still be better

[burek]

you would still get your high piece but lower ilvl options that may still be better

They won't be better, and even if they were it's better to just farm the dungeon for those items instead of wasting the weekly chest.

[Kalisandra]

Now with the recent changes, playing a lot at the start will be pointless without tf since you can only get one item per week no matter how much you play. Playing a little after a few months is also not going to work, because your gear after receiving only one item per week is not going to be good. And at that point you will actually have to play more (aka 15 dungeons) in order to have a chance at that weekly upgrade (while being very behind mythic raiders in gear so pugging is no longer going to be a good option).

That is hilariously wrong. Unless you gear going into a new patch is absolutely BiS mythic raid level, you'll be looking at upgrades from high m+ keys, and you'll certainly be looking at upgrades from mythic raids and high-end PvP. The weekly box is not the only source of gear for a mythic raider and high level PvPer. For those for which it is, it won't be until they've capped out their m+ in-dungeon drops.

As for gearing alts, run them through a few farm normal/heroic raid runs and they'll have good enough gear to start working at getting top-level gear. It's like the 'old days', but with a good piece once a week as well, and somehow we managed back then, so we'll manage now too.

- - - Updated - - -

Your raid options would be inferior to your m+ option. Wasting your weekly chest to get an item available in the heroic raid is rarely going to be a good idea.

Yes, it will be of inferior ilevel if we keep a reasonable level of m+ key. However, that doesn't mean the choice is worthless for a couple of reasons. Firstly, Blizzard has a history of unbalanced trinkets so getting one as a choice, even if it's a lower ilevel, might be a better pick than a high ilevel bracer (or whatever). Secondly, if the higher ilevel choices are all for slots you've already filled and the lower, 'worse', piece is for a slot that's still got something really weak in it, it can still be the better pick.

I completely expect this to happen, given the way the RNG likes to give nothing but gloves one week, pants the next, etc.

[klogaroth]

They won't be better, and even if they were it's better to just farm the dungeon for those items instead of wasting the weekly chest.

Depends on the spread of your dungeons and the relative upgrade of the 2 items. If the high level option is in a slot where it isn't an upgrade, but the lower level piece is in a slot where it is an upgrade, why would you pick the high level one?

The likelihood of "wasting" the weekly chest in the situation that you are farming high level dungeons is basically 0. If you are farming for items, you'll be doing so at as high a level as you can do, to get the best version of those items, so all your weekly chest options will be of the same level.

It's only if you have time for precisely 5 or 15 dungeons, and choose to do a low level INSTEAD OF a high level that you could have done, that it'll really be "wasting", but that's your own fault for doing the low level when you could have done a higher dungeon. You'll still get a high level option in slot 1 or slots 1 and 2.

Basically if you don't meet the requirements, unluck. You don't get heroic loot from, coining normal bosses, just because you cleared half of heroic. Why would you get the item choice for doing 5 or 15 +10s if you didn't do 5 or 15 +10s?

If you do a bonus extra dungeon that you weren't originally going to do, even if it's a +2, and it happens to take you over the 5 or 15 count, well you weren't planning to get those chest options in the first place. If you hadn't run that low level dungeon you would be in the exact same situation. 1 or 2 decent options.

[Delever]

I know, my point was to people that said it's an improvement to everyone, which it isn't. As you said, on my example, nothing will change. They should give baseline 2 options to everyone, and then increase options from there. Also reduce the number of M+'s required to increase choices, 5 and 15 is a ridiculous amount compared to the clearing 1 raid or capping conquest.




Yes, but the extra choices are based on the difficulty you ran them. So the extra choices from LFR are going to be absolute crap.

It will be an improvement simply based on the fact that you also now have the option to pick currency regardless of how many options you unlock so you can target specific pieces. That way you never get something useless.
I told you before but you strategically choose to avoid this in order to not be proven wrong.

[Gorsameth]

My biggest worry is that this will create a windfall for carry groups, since now there will be no incentive for them to run lower level keys.. Just sell +15 runs. That is one. The other: This will take us from alt unfriendly xpack (which BfA was, writ large) to being alt mandatory (the alt can take the key level hit to help lower key guildies, and in some communities this will become a requirement/requisite). I am not advocating or agreeing with it, simply stating that is possible/likely to happen. And it won't end well for the community.

What lower key level hit? there is no penalty for running a lower key, zero, nada.
If a lower key gets you a lower level option it is entirely only because without that lower level key you would not have gotten an option at all.

You have done 5 +15 runs, you do a +4 to help someone, you will get a +15 ilvl in your 1st and 2nd options. There is no penalty.
You did 4 +15 runs, you get 1 +15ilvl option.
you did 4 +15 runs and a +4, you get 1 +15 ilvl option and 1 +4. There is no penalty because without the +4 there would be no second option.

[Twdft]

For the sake of argument I'd even go as far and say that m+ is the easiest of the 3 to get high iLvl gear from. If you want an equivalent raiding piece you'd need to kill 3 bosses mythic, if you want one from PvP you need the respective raiting. So even if you get a piece out of every category, for many the first m+ will most likely be the one with the highest item level, invalidating the other choices on the spot 3-4 weeks into the season. On top of that your second pick choice from m+ requires you to actively farm high m+ keys instead of just playing one up and stopping once you are done. Let's leave the PvP case out for now and just look at a Pve scenario: Let's say you clear heroic (which afaik is already above the average) und you do your 1 or 2 max loot-level m+. The options from raiding will just be useless to you as well, because why bother with the stuff that is 15 iLvl below the one of the m+ loot? Even if you have 10 boss kills, that is still 3 pieces of loot that is lower than the m+ reward.

Here is the point tho: average (/s who obviously roll over content) MMO-C posters don't see it but doing +15 is considerably harder than raiding heroic. Anyone who can do 15s reliably is skillful enough to do mythic raiding, but by far not everyone who reliable raids heroic is able to do 15s. In reality the majority of heroic raiders will have comparable ilvl choices from raiding and their highest M+.

[kaminaris]

What lower key level hit? there is no penalty for running a lower key, zero, nada.
If a lower key gets you a lower level option it is entirely only because without that lower level key you would not have gotten an option at all.

You have done 5 +15 runs, you do a +4 to help someone, you will get a +15 ilvl in your 1st and 2nd options. There is no penalty.
You did 4 +15 runs, you get 1 +15ilvl option.
you did 4 +15 runs and a +4, you get 1 +15 ilvl option and 1 +4. There is no penalty because without the +4 there would be no second option.

Technically the only issue is that if you don't have a group of friends to do your 15 key you really really don't want to fail a run.
Still with these numbers is not really an upgrade for average players.

[Kul]

I don’t think this system makes it to live. The time/effort=reward in regards to M+ is simply not tuned, it should be 1-3-7 or something.
Also going to be fixed is the ”lowest” key thing. As it stands now; lets say I do 4 15+, one 14 and then help a friend do a 2. I get a 2 instead of a 14.