[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Slant]

The figure of grocery shopping I gave was only illustratory. Whether you manage to feed a family of four on a tenner a week or like me 300 a week you the consumer still pay hidden in that sum an excessive amount purely due to pointless EU legislation and over regulation.

The Coke can labelling issue again, yet you miss the point, was just another example of EU unnecessary legislation. Do you honestly think someone picks up a can of coke in the shop, reads the crap on the side and says to themselves "oh I don't/do like the look of that I'm not/am going to buy it?" Don't be stupid of course they don't. It is an EU requirement that is of no use to anyone.

If they buy that can the consumer is paying for food analysts, translators, and so on and so on to put useless info on the side of the tin only because the EU require it. And they the EU citizen pay more for it.

From peanuts to bent bananas to cigarettes to alcohol the EU sticks their interfering grubby legislative hands on it to the detriment of EU people. In everything you do, everything the EU touches makes products more expensive than they need to be.

Here in the UK, as a benefit of brexit, I can't wait for the bonfire of EU red tape and an end to the level playing field.

You say you know how much EU membership costs you and yet fail to mention it, do you really? Come on what's the figure, how much? You say there are benefits to EU membership, yet again fail to mention one. Go on give us an example?

You are a broken record with no substance.
[Infraction]

The price wasn't illustratory, I genuinely believe you have no idea how much groceries cost. One assumption for the cause is that you do not and have not ever bought groceries yourself. Yet, you sit here on an imaginary high horse lecturing other people about big national decisions based on the imaginary life you think everyone must be having. 300 POUND STERLING a week. You're feeding your family the equivalent of a low wage income per month? What are you feeding them? Kobe beef? Not believing that. You're obviously just making shit up. If you had that kind of money, you wouldn't be wasting our time here.

I'm not missing the point with the coke cans. I embarassed you. Which is fine. You should do a little more work though, it took me like 1 minute to debunk the bullshit you're talking. As I could every single time. Because your entire strategy is based on lies and made up bullshit. And all you can do is deflect away from the can and go back to "unnecessary legislation". The UK has the same kind of regulation of labels. It doesn't cost more or less to do the same printing in another language, did you know that? French letters are not more expensive than English letters. Or Greek. Amazing, isn't it. No, the world does not speak English. Had you ACTUALLY been abroad like you claim so often, you would know this. But, that was also just bullshit, wasn't it. I mean, I know it was, don't bother.

You know when the UK probably didn't have these labels? Back in the 60s when it wasn't in the EC. And nobody in the EC had labels. Heck, probably nobody on the planet had labels. But we live in modern times now, people expect information about what they're consuming. And while the EU STANDARDIZES the format and information, these labels existed long before the EU did anything about it. Which is what the EU is doing, homogenizing. Your EU red tape? It's going to get the UK stamp and then it's your red tape. Are you prepared to burn the UK Government because of their "unnecessary legislation"? No? Of course not.

Did you really just ask what the EU gets us? We've been collecting data for the past 4 years on what the benefits of the EU are because of you. Are you REALLY keen on us unloading all the benefits we get? EU membership costs me net €2,36/mo. Here's the link you hoped I forgot:

https://twitter.com/i/status/950035553919033344

In addiiton to that, this 2 trillion corona recovery thing? The Americans still haven't gotten a recovery fund on the way. Our economy already projects positive bounce back from this. In addition to that, everything that Butler posted, the economical boost that being in a trade bloc gets us, the data privacy protection offered by the EU that just cancelled the dubious US-EU data transfer treaty again because of a dude from Austria sueing. And so on and so forth...

Enjoy.

[Temp name]

Or to translate that to a personal level:

-snip-

So yeah, no benefit to living in the EU? I think not.

Thank you. I'm not good with words, so while I knew all this, I could not put it into writing.

[dribbles]

Or to translate that to a personal level:

I can order mozzarella cheese from a buffalo farmer in northern Italy, Spanish tomatoes, Greek olives from a specific orchard in Greece and French garlic, herbs and dried sausage from Provence to make a pizza without having to worry about it all getting held up in customs and going bad while they figure out if they were allowed to export it, I was allowed to import it, and how much them messing around with the red tape will cost me.

If work posts me to the Netherlands, France, Poland, Italy, Spain or one of the other EU27 (and some of the EEA member states that are in Schengen), I can simply move there. No fussing around with the social security offices about pension contributions, no issues with taxes, no interviews at the consulate for a work visa. I can basically get on a train, find a flat, turn up at the office and start working. Thanks to EU train schedule harmonization, home is only a 4-5 hour train ride away.

If I want to go on holiday, I can go to the train station and get pretty much anywhere in Europe (or beyond - I can get to Moscow with one change for example) with one change at most, and the only thing that tells you that you left your country is the language of the street signs.

I don't have to queue for passport control. I've got off a plane from a Schengen country in Frankfurt and been on the train 30 minutes later (and it's about a 25 minute walk from the gate to the platform if you hurry). If I had to queue for passport control I'd have had to wait for the next train. I can get on a train in Germany and be drinking coffee with a croissant on the Champs Elysée in the same time it takes to get from Manchester to London (and I don't even need to take my ID card or passport with me).

The EU has visa waiver agreements with many countries. My German passport will get me into something like 180 countries without the need for a tourist visa. My British one won't do this with a lot of countries as of December 31, until the UK government strikes the respective agreements.

When I go abroad my domestic mobile phone tariff applies to EU roaming, so I don't get a bill for 300 Euro when I get home. I also don't need to use a VPN to access things like the ARD Mediathek (like BBC iPlayer) or Netflix (Americans do, for example) when I'm abroad.

I know exactly what is in my food, and where meat and vegetables were sourced because of EU labelling regulations. I can even find the chicken that laid the egg I had for breakfast on a map from the code printed on the egg shell.

So yeah, no benefit to living in the EU? I think not.

All of that translates to you won't be able to order food from the EU in the UK after December. Do you honestly think an Italian mozzarella cheese buffalo farmer will refuse to sell me his product next year? He won't need that trade?

If your work wants to post you to the EU from the UK that will still be possible subject to compliance with stricter border controls that British people want. Again no problem.

If you want to go on holiday to the EU again come January there will be no problem. Look at how Spain have reacted when a temporary 14 day quarantine has just been re-introduced for returning UK hoidaymakers. Up in arms they are so desperate for the GBP tourist monies to fill their empty hotels.

Roaming charges there's such a thing as buying a local sim card, no problem.

Nothing in there justifies the UK, or any nation, paying billions for those "benefits".

<snip>

Did you really just ask what the EU gets us? We've been collecting data for the past 4 years on what the benefits of the EU are because of you. Are you REALLY keen on us unloading all the benefits we get? EU membership costs me net €2,36/mo. Here's the link you hoped I forgot:

https://twitter.com/i/status/950035553919033344

In addiiton to that, this 2 trillion corona recovery thing? The Americans still haven't gotten a recovery fund on the way. Our economy already projects positive bounce back from this. In addition to that, everything that Butler posted, the economical boost that being in a trade bloc gets us, the data privacy protection offered by the EU that just cancelled the dubious US-EU data transfer treaty again because of a dude from Austria sueing. And so on and so forth...

Enjoy.

Thanks for that twitter link. I see the EU admit it costs every citizen, exposing an error in your calculus of 2.36/ month, it's actually the equivalent of one cup of coffee a day. Here in the UK at one of the biggest chains "costa coffee" a cup costs about £2.50. Times that by 365 almost a grand a year in charges for the privilege of EU membership. For a family of four that's nearly £4000 every year. Still think it is worth it?

You make the case for brexit better than I ever could. Thank you, enjoy your coffee. Mine is now free thanks to brexit.

Thank you. I'm not good with words, so while I knew all this, I could not put it into writing.

You are the forum computer guy right, love your very helpful posts btw. So tell me when you recommend a graphics card, made in China, or a processor, made in China, have you ever had any problems getting them? I mean I know I could order either of those right now and they would be on my doorstep tomorrow without the UK having to send China billions for the privilege like they used to to the EU.

Is China in the EU? Cos it really doesn't matter for trade seems to me and it certainly won't for the 95% of SME's who never import/export outside the UK to begin with.

[Kiri]

Thanks for that twitter link. I see the EU admit it costs every citizen, exposing an error in your calculus of 2.36/ month, it's actually the equivalent of one cup of coffee a day. Here in the UK at one of the biggest chains "costa coffee" a cup costs about £2.50. Times that by 365 almost a grand a year in charges for the privilege of EU membership. For a family of four that's nearly £4000 every year. Still think it is worth it?

You make the case for brexit better than I ever could. Thank you, enjoy your coffee. Mine is now free thanks to brexit.

The math checks out for once to a somewhat reasonable degree. Well, aside from how you slapped on 10% extra costs by using that random coffee comparison and then rounded 3650 to 4000 but hey, baby steps.

Though the problem with that argument is more the part about coffee being free now. Let us set aside briefly the complex economical ramifications of Brexit that will certainly change the calculus in many ways. Those are still not entirely clear, so I don't want to make a prediction there.
However, one prediction can be made rather easily: the cup of coffee would still not be free. That EU membership money came from taxes, which will instead be used to finance Brexit itself (increased costs for border checks etc) or go to whatever project the government wants to use them for, really. Could be the NHS, as promised. Could be tax cuts for the rich or some vanity project, who knows. But you are very unlikely to get that coffee a day.

I mean, you can make the argument that you value the projects financed by the EU very little and thus gain more utility from that taxpayer money being used for more domestic policies etc. That's fine, subjective value and stuff. But you're not gonna get that money into your pockets.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

If the coffee is sourced from an EU roaster or a country without a FTA with the UK (so the Faroe Islands? Who else?), it will be subject to a 7.5% tariff from 1 January in the EU under WTO rules (currently no tariff due to the UK being in the EU, either getting EU sourced coffee or coffee obtained via one of the hundreds of FTAs that the EU is party to).

So add 15-20p to every cup of coffee from Costa (about 70 pounds per year per person (so 280 pounds for your family of four) assuming one cup per day).

[Slant]

I don't know, a pack of ground coffee lasts for a month or longer if you drink a cup of coffee per day, it's like what, 5 quid? I mean, I can spin doctor this shit, too. A cup of coffee a day costs me exactly 60 bucks a year. Now what Dribs? Did I just destroy your glorious maths by taking away the silly premisse that you set up, because that's the only way the world makes sense to you?

Or are you once more displaying that you have no idea what things cost because mummy is buying them for you? Alternatively, do you sprinkle your coffee with gold flakes? Genuinely curious, because the only way any of the shit you say makes sense is if you have the lifestyle of a bored Arabian prince.

[zealo]

You are a broken record with no substance.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Easo]

Roaming charges there's such a thing as buying a local sim card, no problem.

Let me pick on this one - why, THE FUCK, should I do that when I don't have to?! Why should I spend more money to buy that card and potentially even pay more per minute due to local tarrifs possibly being higher? Why should I have to call my contacts from an unknown number? Why should I have to keep the SIM pin with me during travels?

I am gonna go and guess - you also dislike unified chargers, right?

[Slant]

Let me pick on this one - why, THE FUCK, should I do that when I don't have to?! Why should I spend more money to buy that card and potentially even pay more per minute due to local tarrifs possibly being higher? Why should I have to call my contacts from an unknown number? Why should I have to keep the SIM pin with me during travels?

I am gonna go and guess - you also dislike unified chargers, right?

Because it's a sign of sovereignity when you depend on buying foreign products, of course. At least to people in Dribs' world. And also, I think he's not buying those simcards himself. He would know what a hassle that shit is if he did. I wonder if he actually ever went abroad. My guess is, no. He knows so little outside of what sounds to me is an English villager's perspective. And I do have to apologize to English villagers for that comment.

[Temp name]

You are the forum computer guy right, love your very helpful posts btw. So tell me when you recommend a graphics card, made in China, or a processor, made in China, have you ever had any problems getting them? I mean I know I could order either of those right now and they would be on my doorstep tomorrow without the UK having to send China billions for the privilege like they used to to the EU.

Is China in the EU? Cos it really doesn't matter for trade seems to me and it certainly won't for the 95% of SME's who never import/export outside the UK to begin with.

A lot of CPUs and GPUs are made in Taiwan or the US, not China. Just saying.
Intel CPUs are primarily made in the US, with some secondary fabs in Ireland (which is in the EU, in case you didn't know) and Israel, and only 1 in China. As for testing and assembly? Mostly done outside of China too.
As for AMD CPUs, GPUs, and Nvidia GPUs? Primarily done by TSMC, which, uh.. Is in Taiwan. They only a small part of their operation in China. There's also some word that Samsung is getting in on the silicon action, so again, not China.

As for trouble getting them? No, because the EU has spent a very, very long time getting those deals set up. The UK, when it leaves the EU, will have spent a grand total of, what, 4 years? getting those deals set up, being generous of course. From a significantly worse situation than the EU did. If China can't get a deal with the UK, they lose, what, 70 million customers? They'll be fine, considering they can just use that capacity to sell more shit to other countries. If the UK can't get the deal with China, they lose access to the worlds largest manufacturing centre. Could the UK adapt? Probably. But it would be expensive and require entirely new supply routes and logistics networks. It would be easier and probably cheaper to just accept whatever demands China comes with.

- - - Updated - - -

Because it's a sign of sovereignity when you depend on buying foreign products, of course. At least to people in Dribs' world. And also, I think he's not buying those simcards himself. He would know what a hassle that shit is if he did. I wonder if he actually ever went abroad. My guess is, no. He knows so little outside of what sounds to me is an English villager's perspective. And I do have to apologize to English villagers for that comment.

I can't remember where (could be the corona thread?) but when discussing Corona in the UK he said he'd be fine since he lived in bum-fuck nowhere (paraphrasing, don't sue me).. So he is literally an English Villager, if we can trust his words at least. I'm not entirely sure we can.

[Slant]

I can't remember where (could be the corona thread?) but when discussing Corona in the UK he said he'd be fine since he lived in bum-fuck nowhere (paraphrasing, don't sue me).. So he is literally an English Villager, if we can trust his words at least. I'm not entirely sure we can.

Let me guess, he was sneering at the preventetive measures, this is all just a flu anyway? Would fit into his modus operandi to enjoy seeing the world burn for his entertainment.

[Temp name]

Let me guess, he was sneering at the preventetive measures, this is all just a flu anyway? Would fit into his modus operandi to enjoy seeing the world burn for his entertainment.

I can't remember, but something about how no one around him had it, or would get it, since he lived so far away from civilisation

[Inuyaki]

It's funny that people here still argue with dribbles.
It is so obvious that he is a troll, because no one in the world is that dumb.
Just don't feed the troll.

Why is trolling even allowed to that extent? The useful discussions of this thread are most likely less than 100 pages because of that bs...

[Xarkan]

It's funny that people here still argue with dribbles.
It is so obvious that he is a troll, because no one in the world is that dumb.
Just don't feed the troll.

Why is trolling even allowed to that extent? The useful discussions of this thread are most likely less than 100 pages because of that bs...

I sometimes think he is more trying to be a caricature of a brexit supporter to highlight (try looking at most of his links) that brexit is a horrible idea

[Temp name]

We haven't really had much to discuss in forever anyway. We are just waiting for me to win the poll (Extension (which they got several) +Crashout (which we are heading to).

It sadly looks like I lost the poll. I went with extension+remain..

[Slant]

It's funny that people here still argue with dribbles.
It is so obvious that he is a troll, because no one in the world is that dumb.
Just don't feed the troll.

Why is trolling even allowed to that extent? The useful discussions of this thread are most likely less than 100 pages because of that bs...

This question has long puzzled many people on this forum. But I can't elaborate further, lest I risk an infraction. Which is probably saying enough as it is.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm waiting for the WA to end up ignored so it will take a while still

Ha, godamn, this thread is almost three years old now... if you get it right, that would be the most remarkable "called it" I've seen yet (along with the others who voted that).

[Mayhem]

We haven't really had much to discuss in forever anyway. We are just waiting for me to win the poll (Extension (which they got several) +Crashout (which we are heading to).

Well, sorry but you'll have to share that win with me.

[Temp name]

I'm waiting for the WA to end up ignored so it will take a while still

Ha, godamn, this thread is almost three years old now... if you get it right, that would be the most remarkable "called it" I've seen yet (along with the others who voted that).

I'm still hoping that I get to call a win instead.. And if I don't, I'll honestly be sorely disappointed. Not because I lost the vote, but because I lost more hope in humanity

[Easo]

Because it's a sign of sovereignity when you depend on buying foreign products, of course. At least to people in Dribs' world. And also, I think he's not buying those simcards himself. He would know what a hassle that shit is if he did. I wonder if he actually ever went abroad. My guess is, no. He knows so little outside of what sounds to me is an English villager's perspective. And I do have to apologize to English villagers for that comment.

I almost expected him to parrot Apple and their "but but but it stiffles innovation, waa waaa waaa" and/or "just dont be poor", but he ignored the quote for some reason...

[Slant]

I almost expected him to parrot Apple and their "but but but it stiffles innovation, waa waaa waaa" and/or "just dont be poor", but he ignored the quote for some reason...

My personal favourite is "I'm sorry, I don't speak poor."