So is the Alliance leadership mostly just vengeful people now?

[Nightwatch]

First it was Varian for the death of Bolvar.

Then it was Genn for the death of Liam

Then it was Jaina for the destruction of Theramore

Now its Tyrande for the destruction of Teldrassil.

With this track record, Im surprised the Alliance has not resorted to weapons of mass destruction and scorched earth tactics like the Horde has.

[desercitus]

Right now? I see only Tyrande and Genn in the vengeful "pro-war" corner or tempted to resort to more ... drastic methods. And with his development in Shadows Rising, maybe Anduin (as weird as that sounds).
Jaina seems to have calemd down considerably, and I don't really see any other Alliance leaders currently frothing around their mouth for Horde blood. Cooler heads still seem to be the majority, so it's natural the Alliance has yet to commit atrocities on a scale as immense as the Horde's.

[Varodoc]

No?

- Anduin: Does not want revenge.
- Council of Three Hammers: Do not want revenge.
- Tyrande: Wants revenge, HOWEVER she will not start conflict on Azeroth as she is on a journey to Ardenweald in Shadowlands.
- Mekkatorque: Does not want revenge.
- Velen: Does not want revenge.
- Greymane: Wants revenge, and will most likely get it once Sylvanas dies.
- Aysa: Does not want revenge.
- Alleria/Umbric: Do not want revenge.
- Turalyon: Does not want revenge.
- Jaina: Does not want revenge.

So let me ask you again, No?

[Accendor]

I really wish they would. It's fair enough if they fail in the end, but it really is time to exterminate the horde from an alliance PoV. I am not saying that they should succeed, but pls stop being cucks.

[Heartbreaker23]

First it was Varian for the death of Bolvar.

Then it was Genn for the death of Liam

Then it was Jaina for the destruction of Theramore

Now its Tyrande for the destruction of Teldrassil.

With this track record, Im surprised the Alliance has not resorted to weapons of mass destruction and scorched earth tactics like the Horde has.

The reason Varian died is because he trusted Sylvanas. He was the opposite of vengeful.

Jaina is not vengeful at all.

Tyrande and Genn are more than justified in their hatred, so were Varian and Jaina.

[DatToffer]

I would have been so down for the Alliance to crush the Horde and putting them under occupation Berlin-style, then becoming the oppressor, showing their bad side in bullying and exploiting the people under supervision.
Really would have shown the Alliance sins in their self-righteousness and hypocrisy (Sylvanas speech on "You call for peace when it suits you, but you're quick enough to kill" would have made so much more sense), and it would have given the Horde so much reasons to keep on fighting.

I could fanfic extensively about that.

[TickTickTick]

The reason Varian died is because he trusted Sylvanas. He was the opposite of vengeful.

The reason Varian died is because we underestimated the Legion and he sacrificed himself to save others. I can't really understand why does this argument keep appearing from time to time. What was the Horde supposed to do? Remain and just die, leaving one of the two world superpowers leaderless, so that the Alliance can be happy we all died together? Was the situation in reverse, I'm sure all of the Alliance would gladly die so that they don't "backstab" Sylvanas

What's funny, people keep forgetting that Jaina was also there. You know, that Jaina who is able to teleport whole armies or flying ships. Yet she didn't do that.

No. It was Sylvanas betrayal.

Can you read more than one question? Because you clearly didn't in this case.

[Heartbreaker23]

The reason Varian died is because we underestimated the Legion and he sacrificed himself to save others.

No. It was Sylvanas betrayal.

[Stardrift]

Genn doesn't even want revenge anymore, blizz already forgot what his fucking character was lmao

- - - Updated - - -

I would have been so down for the Alliance to crush the Horde and putting them under occupation Berlin-style, then becoming the oppressor, showing their bad side in bullying and exploiting the people under supervision.
Really would have shown the Alliance sins in their self-righteousness and hypocrisy (Sylvanas speech on "You call for peace when it suits you, but you're quick enough to kill" would have made so much more sense), and it would have given the Horde so much reasons to keep on fighting.

I could fanfic extensively about that.

It sounds nice on paper but with the way the nu devs are on twitter, it'd be hard to imagine them pulling this off without throwing themselves into self-induced PTSD and constantly making unaware racist connections between ugly big dumb fantasy races and IRL races and stereotypes.. and getting mad about it.

[DatToffer]

It sounds nice on paper but with the way the nu devs are on twitter, it'd be hard to imagine them pulling this off without throwing themselves into self-induced PTSD and constantly making unaware racist connections between ugly big dumb fantasy races and IRL races and stereotypes.. and getting mad about it.

Well, you wouldn't have to play the "internment camps" story once again. But some topics could have been tackled by looking at the old RL prejudices : Trolls being forced to convert to the Light in order to avoid them using the voodoo, Taurens being parked in Mulgore like a big reservation and their caravans only allowed to ride on roads established and patrolled by the Alliance, goblins being monitored by the gnomes in a big dystopian slum.

I don't how that could go with the US public, as long as it's shown how not okay it is.

[eurojust]

None of them are vengeful. Even Tyrande is fine with the Horde and just doesn't want to be friend with them like she used to be.

[Venziir]

The reason Varian died is because we underestimated the Legion and he sacrificed himself to save others. I can't really understand why does this argument keep appearing from time to time. What was the Horde supposed to do? Remain and just die, leaving one of the two world superpowers leaderless, so that the Alliance can be happy we all died together? Was the situation in reverse, I'm sure all of the Alliance would gladly die so that they don't "backstab" Sylvanas

What's funny, people keep forgetting that Jaina was also there. You know, that Jaina who is able to teleport whole armies or flying ships. Yet she didn't do that.



Can you read more than one question? Because you clearly didn't in this case.

We "underestimated" the Legion, because of the Dreadlords infiltrating SI:7. Varian died, because Sylvanas ordered the retreat, because of Vol'jin's death, which we now know happened, because Mueh'zala and the Jailer interfered, which Sylvanas very well knew. The Jailer wanted both Varian and Vol'jin dead, because that assured Sylvanas would come out on top, they both assumed that Anduin would be a pushover and that no one would oppose Sylvanas.

[DatToffer]

We "underestimated" the Legion, because of the Dreadlords infiltrating SI:7. Varian died, because Sylvanas ordered the retreat, because of Vol'jin's death,

Ok, ok, I'm okay with this.

which we now know happened, because Mueh'zala and the Jailer interfered, which Sylvanas very well knew. The Jailer wanted both Varian and Vol'jin dead, because that assured Sylvanas would come out on top, they both assumed that Anduin would be a pushover and that no one would oppose Sylvanas.

But is this theory or proven ? To me, the death of Vol'jin was not caused by Mueh' and the Jailer interference, but it was an opportunity they seized to make Sylvanas a warchief. I also doubt they were implicated in Varian's death.

[Venziir]

Ok, ok, I'm okay with this.



But is this theory or proven ? To me, the death of Vol'jin was not caused by Mueh' and the Hailer interference, but it was an opportunity they seized to make Sylvanas a warchief. I also doubt they were implicated in Varian's death.

It's proven yes, both in BFA and the SL alpha (now beta). And no, they weren't directly implicated in Varian's death, but they very well knew that by withdrawing the Horde soldiers, the odds of him and the other Alliance soldiers dying, would increase by quite a bit.

[enigma77]

No. It was Sylvanas betrayal.

No. You're as dense as the stones on the Broken Shore.

[Powerogue]

They're still lead by Anduin. As much as they, particularly Tyrande right now, press against his leadership, he keeps them together.

I will say though the new book shows some concerning cracks in Anduin. I'd keep an eye on him. Good kid, but enormous shoes to fill, and an immense, ever-growing weight on his shoulders. He genuinely blames himself for Teldrassil, and so much else that has happened.

[Shelly]

The reason Varian died is because we underestimated the Legion and he sacrificed himself to save others. I can't really understand why does this argument keep appearing from time to time. What was the Horde supposed to do? Remain and just die, leaving one of the two world superpowers leaderless, so that the Alliance can be happy we all died together? Was the situation in reverse, I'm sure all of the Alliance would gladly die so that they don't "backstab" Sylvanas

Since the events in Icecrown Sylvannas has been helping to provoke and prolong war and conflict on Azeroth to feed souls to the Jailer. We've known that since the Azshara patch.

She quit the field early to achieve her goal. If the portal was closed or sealed early then there was a very good chance of peace breaking out. Also since her goal is death itself to feed souls to the jailer why should she care if the Legion comes?

Also if you're going to play the "but Jaina was there and could have teleported everyone!" card, well then let's go to the death of Kil'Jaeden cinematic when Khadgar has to teleport a moderately small group of people a very long distance and it takes him ages to do so.

Or you can make assumptions of when Jaina freezes the ocean in the Daz'Alor fight that she did so because she's now empowered by the office of the Lord High Admiral, an office that gave her dad power to control the weather as well. So since she's an actual trained mage she was able to do more with it.

Although really it doesn't matter, because we know the motivations post scene.

Like when Garrosh kills the commander in the mountains for blowing up the druidic enclave we know from Theramore and the events of MoP that it wasn't because the commander had killed a bunch of innocents, it was because the dude had revealed that the Horde had perfected the mana-bomb technology the Blood Elves from Outland had been working on.

[Sharnie786]

I would have been so down for the Alliance to crush the Horde and putting them under occupation Berlin-style, then becoming the oppressor, showing their bad side in bullying and exploiting the people under supervision.
Really would have shown the Alliance sins in their self-righteousness and hypocrisy (Sylvanas speech on "You call for peace when it suits you, but you're quick enough to kill" would have made so much more sense), and it would have given the Horde so much reasons to keep on fighting.

I could fanfic extensively about that.

What hypocrisy?

[Delano]

Deliberate choice on a writing level to present Alliance as needlessly vengeful, otherwise the Horde's actions come off as more blatantly evil and people wanting to play "noble savages" might have to think about it for a second and feel bad.

[Candy Cough]

It doesent matter bro, didn’t you know the alliance can do know wrong and if they do they have their hero golden retcon it in her latest book