Why so much hate for Tinkerer?

[Enter Name Here]

[...]Tinker dominated the poll. I'm sorry, but the facts simply don't back up your perception. The Tinker isn't as unpopular as you wish it to be, and its "fans" aren't effecting their popularity.

That's like saying "everybody dislikes WoW" because 1 Person said it and no one else said anything else.

Your argumentation is flawed and I really hope you're open for the following explanation.

The flaw is in that while tinker may have dominated this poll, the poll itself may not be representative.
That said the 354 people who voted may be a tiny fraction of the whole userbase. ~28% of that is even tinier. It may just be a very vocal minority.

It is possible that from the people who didn't vote a large amount don't care about or even dislike tinkers.

To know if that poll was representative you would have to know the actual number of active (unique) users.

[Katchii]

The gist of their "technology" is still magic. Physics can't explain flying wood helicopters. They are here to create aesthetics for gnome and dwarf races and that is it.
I can barely think of what this funny class would do. Fix.. things? Nothing cool behind it. If people want realism, they can just play life.

First, no, it's not magic. It's a fantasy world, physics doesn't really apply like it normally would, but there's still nothing magical about a flying wooden helicopter.

Second, they'd use the technology in battle, basically.

If you can't think of what they'd actually do, that's completely on your lack of imagination and your inability to read because Tinkers/Engineers using their skills in battle have existed in the Warcraft universe since WC3 came out decades ago, and those skills are all over the internet.

[Teriz]

A thread over a year old.

Posts in that thread stretched into September, and the poll didn't close until the final week of October. I know because I set the poll up myself.

What's the next excuse?

[qwerty123456]

Posts in that thread stretched into September, and the poll didn't close until the final week of October. I know because I set the poll up myself.

What's the next excuse?

You do realize your very own thread doesn't say what do you want but what do you think the next class will be? You know when people had gotten a fake shadowlands leak with tinkers and hints in the game seeming to say tinkers might be next?

Also this thread has the most up to date info. Why are you denying the hundreds if not thousands of posts saying a certain person or two are the reasons people dislike tinkers?

Wouldn't it mean that people who didn't vote in that poll don't care about future classes in general? Which backs up the general view that people on this forum (and other forums in general) dislike the notion of anything that fundamentally changes the game. Thus, that group you're talking about is a nonissue. The group that matters are the people who WANT new classes, and would participate in polls like that one. In every single poll like that, the Tinker wins.

Here's my issue with this discussion; People here don't mind saying that the Dark Ranger and the Necromancer are popular concepts, yet those same people say that people hate the Tinker concept. However, the Tinker beats those class concepts every time. In many cases, it beats them in dominant fashion.

So yes, I think it's a vocal minority who comes into Tinker threads with an axe to grind. Maybe they don't like Goblins, maybe they don't like steampunk, maybe they don't like me. However, the fact remains that when the rubber hits the road, when we talk about the most desirable class concept, the Tinker is clearly in the top spot.

Dude look at the first couple of pages in this thread. Most of the people saying certain people are to blame haven't made a ton of anti tinker posts.

[Teriz]

That's like saying "everybody dislikes WoW" because 1 Person said it and no one else said anything else.

Your argumentation is flawed and I really hope you're open for the following explanation.

The flaw is in that while tinker may have dominated this poll, the poll itself may not be representative.
That said the 354 people who voted may be a tiny fraction of the whole userbase. ~28% of that is even tinier. It may just be a very vocal minority.

It is possible that from the people who didn't vote a large amount don't care about or even dislike tinkers.

To know if that poll was representative you would have to know the actual number of active (unique) users.

Wouldn't it mean that people who didn't vote in that poll don't care about future classes in general? Which backs up the general view that people on this forum (and other forums in general) dislike the notion of anything that fundamentally changes the game. Thus, that group you're talking about is a nonissue. The group that matters are the people who WANT new classes, and would participate in polls like that one. In every single poll like that, the Tinker wins.

Here's my issue with this discussion; People here don't mind saying that the Dark Ranger and the Necromancer are popular concepts, yet those same people say that people hate the Tinker concept. However, the Tinker beats those class concepts every time. In many cases, it beats them in dominant fashion.

So yes, I think it's a vocal minority who comes into Tinker threads with an axe to grind. Maybe they don't like Goblins, maybe they don't like steampunk, maybe they don't like me. However, the fact remains that when the rubber hits the road, when we talk about the most desirable class concept, the Tinker is clearly in the top spot.

[Katchii]

This class poll was an outgrowth of this very thread;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ed-to-the-game

Tinker dominated the poll. I'm sorry, but the facts simply don't back up your perception. The Tinker isn't as unpopular as you wish it to be, and its "fans" aren't effecting their popularity.

Another way to read that poll, is that by FAR, more people wanted anything other than a Tinker.

Of the 355 people that voted in this specific poll, which is an abysmally low number to be a representative sample size for a game with millions of players.... only 99 of them wanted Tinker, whereas 256 people wanted anything other than Tinker.

I'm not disagreeing with the result though, they did get the plurality of the vote in the poll, so technically "won" but the poll doesn't just show that the Tinker won, it shows that more people DON'T want Tinker than those that do.

[Teriz]

You do realize your very own thread doesn't say what do you want but what do you think the next class will be? You know when people had gotten a fake shadowlands leak with tinkers and hints in the game seeming to say tinkers might be next?

Which simply means that people expected the next class to be Tinkers. Considering that the next expansion was rumored to be called Shadowlands, the fact that Necromancers and Dark Rangers got trounced by a technology class is pretty damning.

Also this thread has the most up to date info. Why are you denying the hundreds if not thousands of posts saying a certain person or two are the reasons people dislike tinkers?

Because we have an active poll right now where the Tinker is beating the next closest class option by over 40 votes.

[qwerty123456]

Because we have an active poll right now where the Tinker is beating the next closest class option by over 40 votes.

And you have this much more active thread with hundreds of more people including myself saying an individual or two is one of the main reasons they are disliking the idea of tinkers. 40 votes versus thousands of posts. Hmmmm which one is more?

Also that new poll doesn't even have necromancer and other highly asked for classes but has final fantasy classes like red mage lol.

[Enter Name Here]

Still, the poll in question lacks options for "other" and "don't care" resulting in people being forced to either not vote or voting for something they don't care about, thus skewing the result.

May be a larger number. We will never know.

[Teriz]

And you have this much more active thread with hundreds of more people including myself saying an individual or two is one of the main reasons they are disliking the idea of tinkers. 40 votes versus thousands of posts. Hmmmm which one is more?

Like I said, I eagerly await the poll where the Tinker loses to another class option.

I have a feeling that I'm going to be waiting for a long time.

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Still, the poll in question lacks options for "other" and "don't care" resulting in people being forced to either not vote or voting for something they don't care about, thus skewing the result.

May be a larger number. We will never know.

Their other option would be to not participate in the poll at all. A poster who says they don't care or don't want a new class is irrelevant to this conversation.

[Enter Name Here]

[...]A poster who says they don't care or don't want a new class is irrelevant to this conversation.

care to explain why this is irrelevant to the poll?

[qwerty123456]

Like I said, I eagerly await the poll where the Tinker loses to another class option.

I have a feeling that I'm going to be waiting for a long time.

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Their other option would be to not participate in the poll at all. A poster who says they don't care or don't want a new class is irrelevant to this conversation.

You do realize necromancer and other highly requested classes aren't in that poll you linked while final fantasy classes are?

Also we are not talking about if tinkers are liked but why people dislike them. And the fact of the matter is many posters have said certain people are the reason they are starting to hate tinkers.

[Teriz]

You do realize necromancer and other highly requested classes aren't in that poll you linked while final fantasy classes are?

Which is fine, because Necromancers were in this one;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-class-in-9-0

And Dark Rangers beat them, and DRs were in this poll.

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care to explain why this is irrelevant to the poll?

It's like asking which color is better, Blue or Green and someone says I hate both those colors.

Their opinion doesn't help with the question you're asking, thus it's irrelevant.

[Enter Name Here]

Did you just use transitive property on two different polls?

By that logic, necromancer would be far more popular than tinkers because they got ~160 votes in this poll as where tinkers just got about 100 in another poll

[Katchii]

It's like asking which color is better, Blue or Green and someone says I hate both those colors.

Their opinion doesn't help with the question you're asking, thus it's irrelevant.

No, it means the question itself is biased and therefore the results of the poll are biased and unusable except in an attempt to make an obviously biased argument.

Their answer is valid.

[qwerty123456]

Which is fine, because Necromancers were in this one;

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...W-class-in-9-0

And Dark Rangers beat them, and DRs were in this poll.
.

Again that thread was about what the next class they think was going to be in 9.0 not what is the class they want. When you know there were several fake leaks that had dark rangers and tinkers in them. Do you not actually think anything out???


Also stop derailing this thread.

[Teriz]

Did you just use transitive property on two different polls?

By that logic, necromancer would be far more popular than tinkers because they got ~160 votes in this poll as where tinkers just got about 100 in another poll

Yeah, that isn't what I did. I was pointing out why someone who hates classes is worthless in a future class poll.

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Again that thread was about what the next class they think was going to be in 9.0 not what is the class they want. When you know there were several fake leaks that had dark rangers and tinkers in them. Do you not actually think anything out???

So then why did Dark Rangers also lose badly in that poll? Again, the results weren't even close.

Also stop derailing this thread.

Actually this falls right in line with the topic of this thread. If the Tinker is supposedly hated, then that means that Dark Rangers, Necromancers, Bards, and other concepts are hated even more. Why is that if Tinker fans supposedly make people so angry with their activism?

[Zka]

Tinker class sounds stupid and it's boring to read again and again how a small minority would like to see it implemented.

[qwerty123456]

Yeah, that isn't what I did. I was pointing out why someone who hates classes is worthless in a future class poll.

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So then why did Dark Rangers also lose badly in that poll? Again, the results weren't even close.



Actually this falls right in line with the topic of this thread. If the Tinker is supposedly hated, then that means that Dark Rangers, Necromancers, Bards, and other concepts are hated even more. Why is that if Tinker fans supposedly make people so angry with their activism?

Because the biggest leak had tinkers and Mechagon and shit seemed to imply tinkers..... Please just stop dude you are the single most detriment to tinkers. Atleast the other tinker fans don't try to outright lie or misconstrue data.

And no it doesn't fall in the topic of the thread nor does it matter if any other class is hated more thats not what the thread is about. This thread is asking why there is so much hate for tinkers.

[Triceron]

If the theme went the 'goblin/gnome only route' it could simply better realize the already established engineering themes while filling in the rotational/mechanical gaps with modern gaming tropes. That's not to say that they couldn't allow other races, plenty of races have an already established relationship with tech in one form or another. If they chose to go that route they'd also have more creative license to add a broader range of tech themes to the class fantasy. Also, nothing in WoW suggests they couldn't reside within the same narrative space.

The reality is Blizzard wouldn't bank on features or themes that are divisive and prone to criticism as much as Goblins and Gbomes have

If it were really that simple as you say then Gnome and Goblin only Tinkers would already be playable well before Demon Hunters. It made perfect sense to add them over Demon Hunters if we consider the fun themes, the varied gameplay, there being no conflict of interest with existing classes, and definitely have 3 full specs of gameplay.

I think Blizzards actions paint a very different picture here of what direction they choose to take the game, and popular concepts outrule what fans may consider mediocre.

Look at WoD story decelopment. It was born out of Garrosh escaping and rallying Gnolls, Kobolds, Troggs and Centaurs into the Mongrel Horde. We have concept art for this idea. Then someone suggested the idea of bringing back famous Orc legendary warriors of the past, raising them from the dead. The team liked the idea of Garrosh rallying famous Orc chieftains and tribes, so they went with that. Then they changed the idea to involve alternate universe and timeline, which completely screws up the lore but it totally fits their concept of 'rule of cool' over things that make sense.

I'd love for Tinkers to be added, I personally wouldn't mind them being exclusive to Gnomes and Goblins with lots of customization. I don't think Blizzard has that same interest in mind unfortunately, and my reasoning is if they did then we should very much see it by now and not keep getting dark-edgelord expansions one after another.

With the way Shadowlands is progressing, it seems to move closer and closer to Old God shenanigans and incoming Void Lord involvement, not a side trip to Mechagon 2.0 to introduce Tinkers.