#NoChanges is truly dead

[Kagthul]

It comes down to a philosophical point of view. Do you truly change nothing and allow the game to exist in its buggy and easily exploited state? Or do you make minor changes to try to make the players treat the game the way it was back in Classic?

A prime example of that would be the AV changes. Back in the day AV was a several hour/day marathon. Modern players discovered that rushing was the correct strategy for honor farming. Do you adjust AV so that the playerbase is incentivized to play AV like it was in Vanilla? Or do you allow the playerbase to fundamentally change the game with new strategies using original mechanics?

This item is yet another example. Tank threat is the 'bottleneck' in raid dps. Your player's threatcap. Many classes can easily outpace tank threat, especially in AQ/Naxx gear. Tanks need to balance survival and dps. They also don't have the easiest rotation with rage limits. They also require extensive world buffs and consumables to perform alongside their dps. This item trivialized threat and would have allowed tanks to go 'full turtle' and ignore everything except survival. It would have fundamentally shifted how tanks gear, spec, and play at high end content.

Blizzard opted to make a change to keep players playing Classic like they did in Vanilla. That is a philosophical choice. This item wasn't used as a free threat generator in Vanilla. It's philosophy at the end of the day - there is no 'correct' answer. Some will want the game to feel like Vanilla, others will want the game to be Vanilla. Both are not possible.

nailed it.

[Velerios]

Yikes! How many people do you think will be banned over this then?

Nobody of course, but as these #maga... i mean #nochanges-cult always tried to hide that they want nochanges to everything that makes gameplay far too easy or ruins the fun of others: hey, let's change bgs so that people can't sit afk to leech honor there: Nope, #nochanges.

And if it's dead, even better: blizzard themself never said #nochanges, this was the community only. So yes, i really hope nochanges is dead, because it was stupid to begin with.

[Bannbar]

I'd really love for there to be 2 versions of classic. One without changes, a real vanilla like experience, and one where they actually balance shit and try to create an actually good game, instead of the absolute garbage that vanilla was/is.

[dcc626]

Imagine crying about this.

its mmochamp, what doesnt get cried about?

[Hinastorm]

Please be satire, please be satire, please be satire.

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nailed it.

Also why changing up the AQ war mats (with lots of notice that this was going to happen) would of most closely resembled the old war effort, let everyone seems to think this would be a bad idea.

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Just raid without them? My guild (top 10 guild on server) raids without buffs when there isn't DMF, then we push with buffs in DMF weeks. Makes it a bit more relaxing.

Your server is extremely dead if you're top 10 without buffs.

[Roxyfoxy]

Blizzard was very clear before classic release, that they will not change anything UNLESS it is gamebreaking.

This thing however was gamebreaking, if used correctly, it would do up to 3k! TPS which is more than what any tank is able to do with min maxed play. Completly removing threat as a mechanic. All this just for not completing a quest as intended.

Blizzard never said that they wouldnt change anything, saying such is a lie, and this argument is only used by people who have a motive of getting other changes that THEY want into the game, like removal of world buffs ect.

[Zka]

Nochanges never ment leaving exploits open. They have explicitly stated way before Classic release that they are going to fix bugs and exploits. Stop whining about nothing.

[Unholyground]

#SomeChanges baby! Glad they are not listening to the pissy toddler men.

[AeneasBK]

I think it's ludicrous to be against them.

Pretty much, but we can sit and laugh at the hoops anyone who is will throw themselves through.

Particularly the semantic "If it's a change then it's a change, not a fix herp-di-derp-di-doodle"

[zorkuus]

Classic players didn't really want the vanilla experience, they just wanted another private server like experience.

[Blupparen]

Was "Ectoplasmic Distiller tanking" a thing in vanilla? No? Then nothing was lost. Now they just need to remove the buff it gives or atleast make it not stack to stop griefers. In a perfect world these changes wouldn't be needed but people will use every edge they can get to min-max or ruin the gameplay for others.

[ClassicPeon]

Just raid without them? My guild (top 10 guild on server) raids without buffs when there isn't DMF, then we push with buffs in DMF weeks. Makes it a bit more relaxing.

There are actually servers left with 10 raid guilds?
My server was literally dead before AQ patch and is about to go down hill again. I suspect thats the case for most servers.

We have 3 actual raid guilds on the server

[Nak88]

It was dead from the very beginning. Please let us have double spec in TBC Classic!

[Grimreaper]

There are actually servers left with 10 raid guilds?
My server was literally dead before AQ patch and is about to go down hill again. I suspect thats the case for most servers.

We have 3 actual raid guilds on the server

Not these lies again...

I'm on one of the lower populated of the 17 EU realms marked as High. We have 50+ active raiding guilds, i see 20+ thunderfuries in Org every day (alliance wastly outnumber horde guilds on my realm) and every single zone in the world is crowded as always. Population is even growing, every day.

[Nite92]

I'd really love for there to be 2 versions of classic. One without changes, a real vanilla like experience, and one where they actually balance shit and try to create an actually good game, instead of the absolute garbage that vanilla was/is.

There is no real vanilla experience, because an experience is not just about the activity it is also about the people you play with, i.e., the community. And the community has changed, by alot.

[SkagenRora]

Hooray? Now remove world buffs from raids too, plz.

Why remove something that make the raids more enjoyable?

[owbu]

#nochanges is something some players advocated for, not something that ever existed. It cant die.

Classic came with a mission statement. Vanilla with modern infrastructure (bnet integreation, automatic reports, layers, megaservers) and bug fixes in the spirit of the original design. The new dev team gets to decide what that means.

So the mission statement is alive and well. No changes is still just a (in my opinion terrible) concept in some players heads. Die Gedanken sind frei and so on.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Layers on the first day says.. hello... is anybody in there....

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

As i knew it: #nochanges are an excuse for exploiters and griefers.

Pretty much, #nochanges people are people who don't actually care about a good game ...they just want to do things as braindead as possible.

[Auberdeen]

why complain, making game better is great. weird flex thread