Raider IO needs to go. It's just as bad for the community as Gearscore was in WOTLK

[Alvito]

It's really not. I have literally never completed a key in time with a pug group under 2k average io.

Well if you are running 15s that would be the score one would have for finishing them in time, so that kinda makes sense. If you are looking at keys above that they would be punching above their weight class and should be expected to cut it close or fail the run. Even dropping down to say the 12 to 14 range they could easily fail since a raider.io score is your best scores not your average scores.

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There's nothing wrong with RIO. It's a better measure than GearScore. People who can't increase their RIO are the only ones complaining about it.

As for OP's mention of meta, that has nothing to do with RIO.

People want something to blame other than themselves. Making assumptions of why they weren't invited or get bad groups and don't consider the dozens of factors.

[Devilyaki]

Just remove m+

[Alvito]

Yup, best way to do it, my IO score is shit because there's just some dungeons I hate and will never do lol.

Well people actually using raider.io would look at the dungeon the were potentially adding you for. As you put it you don't do certain ones so you wouldn't be in queue for them. You would have a history for what you were trying to be invited to.

[MiseryIndex]

I like that r.io tells me what I need to do about a player's experience. It beats having to armory them. Because putting zero effort into finding out whether a pug has the requisite experience is how you fail keys. There are no guarantees, of course, but every little bit of information helps.
That being said, I imagine pugs can be a little extreme in their requirements for something as faceroll as a 15. The problem there is the community, not the resource.

[Tziva]

It's really not. I have literally never completed a key in time with a pug group under 2k average io.

You're talking about something else than I am. I'm talking about raider.io hindering people's abilities to get into groups being exaggerated. You're talking about success level of groups.

That said, that is a strange claim. What key levels are you talking about? Presumably, people who hit 2k score via pugging didn't magically get there without some successful runs on the way up.

[Krawu]

The harsh reality is that players want things to be safe & simple, so they will take whatever easily usable to use information they can, especially with the number of idiots out there.
If there's a single number they can compare against the number of others that's just perfect.

But there's still a good a number of ways to get into runs, and raider.io really only affects one:

-play something ridiculously meta
-stick to a community, guild, discord or friends
-play tank/heal
-have an amazing raider.io score
-be the one making the group
-have an amazing ilvl

If neither of these work for you, it's not the fault of raider.io. It may just be you.
Especially on new, low-geared chars I've often spent 20+ minutes applying to random +5 runs until I get an invite. That's just part of the game.

[cocomen2]

Time to introduce LFM+ system..... to help 90% playerbase (aka plebs.. like someone said in this very thread).

Chose role and level key you want to PUG, then join PUG team of very-very PUG players to PUG some with them.

[Adam Jensen]

The problem is not raider.io (or gear score or ilvl or achievement checking or gear inspection or parses), the problem is the community misusing, overusing, and/or exploiting these resources. As long as the actual players causing this negative behaviour exists, the problem itself will also always exist in some capacity or another, just as it has since day one. If you get rid of raider.io, they will just use something else for the same end.

Yep. There'll always be people passing ridiculous and over the top judgements on other players.

"+2 Freehold, need 5000 IO and full Mythic Castle Nathria gear!" (Obviously that's hyperbole, but I have seen IO checks for low mythics)

I dunno, IO annoys the shit out of me but other than getting a brain transplant to half the WoW player base, I don't know the solution.

[Biomega]

Actually, what we need is an INBUILT raider.io score system, for one simple reason: more information means more criteria to go by than just class/spec. If you want to reduce discrimination against meta setups, reward people who have something that PROVES they are good players, and thus validate the good ol' "bring the player not the class" idea.

Think of it as a form of PvE rating, much like PvP rating works. Taking inspiration from RIO, it would take the highest keys you've done and score you based on your performance, with more score for completing +1/+2/+3. Only the highest level per dungeon would be taken into account, so you can't spam quantity to increase your score, only quality; but you would still get a respectable score for not finishing in time, just less than you would get for a +1 or more, so people don't immediately quit every dungeon that goes wrong.

Then, using this score you could filter the group finder much the way ilvl works now: you can list your groups to be only visible/accessible to people above a certain rating, which of course would not go above what you yourself currently have. You could still list groups with no requirement, of course, just like with ilvl now; but because you wouldn't even get applicants below your chosen threshold, it gives classes/specs that are off-meta but piloted by skilled players a better shot at visibility: if, say, an Enhancement Shaman shows up in your super high score run's application list, you know this has got to be a pumper who knows their shit, and even if the spec isn't meta it'll be a good player. Of course that won't GUARANTEE them a spot, but it'll be a better place than they are in now, where even with RIO many people won't even look at a DPS Shaman in the application list to check their score.

While we're on that note, they should also add a key-level filter to the group finder, so you can enter a range of key values you want to search for, based on the key level people entered for their listing (ideally restricted to whatever keys the group has in their bags). That would also help cut down on the advertising spam, since they now can't use random trial DHs or whatever to make their advertisements visible to everyone looking for a high key.

[Beet]

My community has never been stronger and its due to one thing: raider.io. Removing raider.io would destroy my community and the game.

lol I can assure you it would not destroy the game. And if your community is tied up in raider io thats really sad

[erifwodahs]

I prefer RIO to "Come to the bank for inspection" or asking "how do you do this windseeker pull to skip the bolstering" or "how do you do this skip and then do x?"
Rio is player made progression. It is unnecessary elitism to do anything above 15 to begin with so maybe we shall cap m+ too so people don't feel bad?
I am on my DH alt for couple of weeks now. I main tank and holy cow pugging 14-15 suck. It's easier to do 18s-19s with pugs than it is to do low keys with low rio people. Amount of tantrums you get is way higher, it's just horror.

[callipygoustp]

lol I can assure you it would not destroy the game. And if your community is tied up in raider io thats really sad

I was merely trying to be as ludicrous as the OP.

[erifwodahs]

lol I can assure you it would not destroy the game. And if your community is tied up in raider io thats really sad

That would destroy key pushing for sure. And there is massive amount of us. What is sad to tied to rio? Are collectors communities sad because they measure in pets/toys/mounts? Mythic raiders must be sad sad because they measure in realm/world placement.
People love to compete against others, no matter if it's that rank 20 tank on your realm with whom you are at the blows every week or that's your ex guildie mage who is progressing same raid as you are in a different guild.
Close minded much?

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Actually, what we need is an INBUILT raider.io score system, for one simple reason: more information means more criteria to go by than just class/spec. If you want to reduce discrimination against meta setups, reward people who have something that PROVES they are good players, and thus validate the good ol' "bring the player not the class" idea.

Agreed. This should have been done after Legion. BfA m+ UI and info sucks ass. No realm stats, no competition against others, no speed placement or no deaths placement in the realm or sth like that. Maybe blizz is afraid to do that because of "anti-elitist" people outrage as I can't see other reason to not implement any sort of competition measure in game.

[Twdft]

So, they are not chosen for the DPS spot.

You do know that noone can exclude you from your own key.

How do you choose players to invite to your key btw?

Also: the developers of r.io have a discord and are always eager to listen to suggestions how to make r.io better.

[klaps_05]

Ah, the monthly raiderio thread. Once again missing the point that when you need a DPS, theres like 500 ppl queuing and majority of them are fotm rerollers, so even without raiderio, nobody is inviting your shadowpriest.

[Aphrel]

Gearscore was terrible for the community for multiple reasons back in Wrath. Specifically, it made a divide in the player base that was unnecessary and promoted elitism.

We are witnessing Gearscore 2.0 with Raider.IO. While yes, it is helpful to have so you choose people who have the relative experience to what you key you are looking to push, it also diminishes the value of the player experience as a whole. We tend to choose players who have higher IO's than others, we choose players who are playing "meta" specs over others who may have a higher IO, but they are playing a Shadow priest. So, they are not chosen for the DPS spot.

We as a community have failed one another once again. I hope that Blizzard will step in at some point and remove Raider IO as a whole just as they did with Gearscore. Or, Blizzard will incorporate their own version of this addon into the game itself.

Given that blizzard implemented gearscore into the base game (itemlevel) wich are shown when a player signs up to a custom group im all for them doing the same for raider.io score.

The more information that is readily availible for everyone to see the better.

[siyX-]

The people I see complain about IO are generally the ones trying to reach beyond their experience, or rightfully so or not what I perceive that experience to be. I’m sorry but if I’m forming a group on my 2.9k hunter for a 19/20 key I’m not accepting people with 1800 IO for the run. Conversely when I’m playing on my 2100 Druid I wouldn’t expect people in the 3k range to accept my application either. Temper your expectations a bit and level up your score, it really isn’t difficult to get to a level where you are more attractive to people forming groups. In fact I just recently started a boosted Warrior from 0 IO, not tagged as an alt, and had him at just under 2k last push week, only pugs since I don’t have friends D:

Also IO is not the only reason you don’t get invites, as people have mentioned the sheer number of 480 / 2500+ IO players I get applying to even +15s is completely bonkers. Why do I want a 465 guy with a green score if I can quite literally have my pick of the litter? Is that personal guaranteed to be better? No, but if someone has 50 or more 15+ keystones timed this patch then there’s a better than average chance they will be a positive contributor to the success of the run.

It’s a fantastic system for many reasons. It gives me a personal progression system for M+, allows me to loosely vet other players very quickly, and also lets me tag my alts with my main’s score to help them get groups too.

[apelsinjuice]

people just want to get carried

[callipygoustp]

If I wasn't a decent player, I'd hate raider.io as well.

[Twdft]

If I wasn't a decent player, I'd hate raider.io as well.

No reason to. The only thing they'd have to realize is at which level their skill actually is and not apply higher.