Raider IO needs to go. It's just as bad for the community as Gearscore was in WOTLK

[deenman]

Gearscore was terrible for the community for multiple reasons back in Wrath. Specifically, it made a divide in the player base that was unnecessary and promoted elitism.

We are witnessing Gearscore 2.0 with Raider.IO. While yes, it is helpful to have so you choose people who have the relative experience to what you key you are looking to push, it also diminishes the value of the player experience as a whole. We tend to choose players who have higher IO's than others, we choose players who are playing "meta" specs over others who may have a higher IO, but they are playing a Shadow priest. So, they are not chosen for the DPS spot.

We as a community have failed one another once again. I hope that Blizzard will step in at some point and remove Raider IO as a whole just as they did with Gearscore. Or, Blizzard will incorporate their own version of this addon into the game itself.

I never cared about gearscore in wrath,i actualy knew people that had no idea what it was and they were clearing 25hc icc weekly

And i dont care about raider IO today,i have this thing called a guild and i do everything i need with them,sure we dont rly push keys some just around the 20 ish,but personaly i just do for the weekly chest

Sometimes i do have to pug but i never have any issues doing 15-17,finding a group doesnt take me more than a few minutes max and i dont even know what my score is,im sure its rly rly bad as i havent even touched some dungeons this season,i dont know...maybe its cause people doing only 15-17 dont care so much about the score and they just look at ilvl?

Btw blizz didnt remove gearscore,they made itemlevel show up ingame so gearscore became pointless

[Asrialol]

What's funny is people posting 15-20 keys and are like "Need x class". That has nothing to do with raider.io. People really think you need specific classes for low keys?

Raider.io is useful. If I see some 4k boi has only timed a 24 siege once, but has depleted several....? It's an easy way to check if people are bads like that.

[Twdft]

Raider.io is useful. If I see some 4k boi has only timed a 24 siege once, but has depleted several....? It's an easy way to check if people are bads like that.

HTF is that a bad player? 4k r.io means timing all +23, of course players like this have depleted 24s because they are working on them.

[Enter Name Here]

[...]just don't pug with randoms.

Make some friends and roll with them

i'm sorry for being nit-picky.

assuming every "friend" started out as being a "random" at some point, since you didn't know them before, how will that statement ever work out?

[Asrialol]

HTF is that a bad player? 4k r.io means timing all +23, of course players like this have depleted 24s because they are working on them.

If people have timed a 23-24 once, but has depleted every other 20-24 key of that dungeon then that's a major red flag. Also, using siege as an example, I wouldn't take someone who hasn't done a +23 to +25 with bolstering if there was currently a bolstering week, for instance.

My point mainly being that the score part of rio isn't whats useful. There's so much more useful information people ignore.

I usually do keys with my tank buddy, and when were echo farming keys at 15-19 we usually invite non-meta classes. X3 shadow priests in shrine last week was kinda funny. Usually those classes seem surprised they were invited because they weren't meta. Which is a shame.

I reckon people playing non-meta classes are on average better than the average meta class player..

[deenman]

If people have timed a 23-24 once, but has depleted every other 20-24 key of that dungeon then that's a major red flag. Also, using siege as an example, I wouldn't take someone who hasn't done a +23 to +25 with bolstering if there was currently a bolstering week, for instance.

My point mainly being that the score part of rio isn't whats useful. There's so much more useful information people ignore.

I usually do keys with my tank buddy, and when were echo farming keys at 15-19 we usually invite non-meta classes. X3 shadow priests in shrine last week was kinda funny. Usually those classes seem surprised they were invited because they weren't meta. Which is a shame.

I reckon people playing non-meta classes are on average better than the average meta class player..

wut?so r ye sayn dat me playing a demon hunter doesnt automaticaly make me gud? me lief's been a lieee >_<

[Seratox]

HTF is that a bad player? 4k r.io means timing all +23, of course players like this have depleted 24s because they are working on them.

Its a bad player by default because clearly his IO isn't as throbbingly huge as the person criticizing it.

Therein lies the problem.

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wut?so r ye sayn dat me playing a demon hunter doesnt automaticaly make me gud? me lief's been a lieee >_<

Being a DH doesn't automatically make you good. You also need two brain cells to rub together.

[korijenkins]

We as a community accepted over a decade ago that if you wanted to play the way you want, the content you want, the class you want, the spec you want - the only real avenue is playing with friends or guildies or both. I mean you admit yourself that this is FAR from a new phenomenon - First, it was "come to AH for inspection". Then we have had GS, ilvl, achievements - the list goes on. This isnt new, its just the newest tool to allow us to do something we have always done - pick and choose the most qualified members for our groups.

The fuck are you talking about "we"?

There was no decision, Blizzard just did nothing about guide websites and addons telling people the easiest/quickest way to do everything. When nobody knew anything, more people had fun because there weren't assholes making grand statements about how people should play, and declaring it to be the opinion of the greater community.

[Protean]

I don't like Raider.IO - So I just don't use it.

Instead I gather my friends in the game and clear whatever M+ I want every week.

Long story short, you can still do everything you want in the game even with raider.IO available. Just make some friends.

I did check my score a while back though, it wasn't half bad...

What if I don't want the burden of pretending to be friends with people I really don't give a shit about?

[Eazy]

Raider.io isn't ideal option, but it's the best option we've got right now.

Raider.io is useful. If I see some 4k boi has only timed a 24 siege once, but has depleted several....? It's an easy way to check if people are bads like that.

Have you seen that guild called METHOD? They've got like hundreds of wipes on a few mythic bosses, fucking noobs.

[LordVargK]

Just don't use it. Period.

I don't like the addon, I don't use it. And I still find groups. In fact, I purposely avoid groups that have a rio requirement, because I assume that the group leader is looking to get carried.

That said, I would like the option to limit the access of third parties to my character data. It kinda bothers me how websites can just see everything I do without me giving them consent to do so. If RIO users could only see the score of other RIO users (thus making their own, separate m+ community) then I would have no problem at all.

[Otimus]

For every tool the community has historically been given to make grouping easier, the community has made new and fantastic ways to exclude people. They'll always find a way. There's nothing much you can do about it except be in an active guild.

This is why LFD/LFR exist. The community is fucking rancid and caused it to exist and any time it's the same group who complain about those two things existing, I want to throw a pan at them. (Blizzard is also absolutely oblivious to how it's community actually functions, seeming to have an ideal of how it should be, and when it isn't that, just shrugs about it, like, man, the statements about people not being declined over the wrong covenants. lol.)

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2 people apply for a job.

They both ask for the same pay.
They both have, for argument sake, all the same qualities.
However, one has 2 years experience and one has 10 years.


Now you might argue that the 10 year guy might get bored, might leave the company sooner, might think he deserves promotions sooner... but that's all speculation.
you wouldnt hire the 2 year guy just because you think the 10 year guy 'might think he's better than the position'. You'll hire the 10 year guy because he IS better.

Shit like this, while true, is why WoW isn't gaining subscribers and why the paid MMORPG bubble has sort of burst. If I weren't playing a game and someone defined an aspect of it's core gameplay like that, and I didn't know much about it, I'd run the fuck away.

[SkagenRora]

Never been kicked or denied as far as i know, But i don’t try anything crazy like applying at 430-445 ilvl or try any thing higher than +12.

All my characters are atleast 456 With the 2 hughest being 470 (6 characters so far)

[Otimus]

This is an MMORPG. The design intent is to play it with a stable group of friends/guild or community members. yet people insist on trying to be as asocial as possible and then complain that their social experience is miserable. Self-fulfilling prophecies anyone?

Blizzard pretty much spent making the game as welcoming to the asocial as possible. You got to put some blame there too. You literally can do everything by yourself, until at the end when you can't. Doesn't really encourage anyone to group up. Practically feels like a bait and switch when you think about it. IMHO. if that's the goal, leveling to cap should basically require grouping. Not one small portion at the end of the game.

[Wildpantz]

Op just mad cause they are applying for higher keys then they should just because ilvl os high

[SoundOfGuns]

Im not even sure what kind of garbage people keeps coming up with shitty concepts like that. Its also 95% of the time the same kind of people who you most certainly don't want in your group anyway. The Itemlevel 410-Duo that skims Raider IO to make sure they only pick hyper-experienced 470s für their mythic 7 key is not just a stereotype...

[Wedny22]

Personally I really hate RIO...but i understand why people use it. I do rarely ever pug, since voicecoms are OP, but when i do, i get rejected due to my RIO score, and i link Them some of ma parses from the raid, get invited and we go (or i decline the new invite).
But, the problem is not RIO, its the morons that dont know how to use it..need 2.8k Rio for Freeloot 6...my advice, make your own group, get a guild, and DO NOT join those groups, I mentioned above.
When i do m+, i do not like it that much, i run it with Friends, or i get a boost, since in lazy AF and i dont like waiting 45 min to get into a shiitgroup, Wipe 7 Times get insulted, and ruin my evening.

Yes i can easily affort boosts since i work 40+ hours (a week and i lack the time to wait 45 min to do my weekly m+, yes its weak, yes its horrible, but this way i can keep up with my Friends. And yes I buy my boosts with ma millions i made in WoD or i get a token, no wierd ass boost website. Just ingame boosters, and yeah i normally Just play with Them)

[Otimus]

I think grouping while leveling should also give you bonus XP, instead of a punishment. That is how most everything handles these things now besides WoW (including Blizzard's own Overwatch! I know that's a different genre, but still!). The game has a lot going on that greatly discourages early grouping/making it just not feel worth bothering with, and there seems to have been little interest in every bothering to fix it. (I don't even think they see it as a problem).

[Marrilaife]

Shit like this, while true, is why WoW isn't gaining subscribers and why the paid MMORPG bubble has sort of burst. If I weren't playing a game and someone defined an aspect of it's core gameplay like that, and I didn't know much about it, I'd run the fuck away.

Wow is exactly like real life, where employers want a 10 year experienced employee yet pay him like you'd pay an intern.

Bad pug experiences stem from the fact group leaders don't want just adequate group members, they want overqualified ones, and they will still treat them like trash. For example there are pug raid leaders that will kick you because you didn't trade them your personal loot.

It's especially bad with tanks, a trash dps who just 120 boosted the character and wants to run some low level key will never accept a tank that isn't 5x better geared, knows the route and whatnot. And will whine he can't find any tanks. And if by chance he accepts a tank that is newbie and undergeared, will proceed to whine and rage at him that he doesn't provide him a "smooth run" while himself doing barely any more damage than the tank and never interrupting.

The shortage of tanks in low level content stems from exactly that, people proliferated the belief that unless you're pretty good geared and can take any mispull on your chest, you're unfit to tank. Which means even people who want to tank will do the low content as dps most of the time.

[sylenna]

with raider.io i am sometimes able to apply for a group with a good tank and the resulting run is often quick and successful.

i climbed a bit and did +13 but still have i.e. ML at 8++. surely, no group wants to accept me for a 11-13.

but all in all i increase a number and everyone thinks that therefore i have to be skilled if i hold that number. but in many great runs a much better dd bested me or i bested him. so someone of us sorta got carried AND received a higher number but still really didn't pull his own weight. now those players are around and maybe die too often and disband groups based on the promise of their big number.

nothing is perfect.