SPOILERS: Shadowlands Lore Thread

[Combatbutler]

The idea that presumably punting him in the Maw since they mention that whatever they did to him wasn't justice but revenge is somehow amoral though I'm really dubious on as a concept, since it implies that he didn't go to the Janitor but was reassigned there.

It could have been very possible Arthas used to be in Revendreth originally. He did not devastate entire worlds, which is currently the worst deeds we know some people in there have done.

[tommyhil622]

How? Because she wants revenge for the genocide of her people? You understand the people of Teldrassil were incinerated down to the last baby, yes? Seeking revenge at all costs does not make her mad in the slightest, in fact it actually makes her sane, because that's what any sane person would do.

Arthas started on that same path, and look where he ended up. Jaina did as well and did change her tune when she realized that revenge can't rule her life (but several bodies were left in the streets of dalaran). Not saying she's evil or will be evil just saying she's on the path.

[Varodoc]

Arthas started on that same path, and look where he ended up. Jaina did as well and did change her tune when she realized that revenge can't rule her life. Not saying she's evil or will be evil just saying she's on the path.

She is not on that path at all. Following that logic, anyone who seeks revenge for anything is on that path. Arthas committed genocide himself at Stratholme, Tyrande is not committing shit because she's busy looking for answers in the Shadowlands.

[tommyhil622]

She is not on that path at all. Following that logic, anyone who seeks revenge for anything is on that path. Arthas committed genocide himself at Stratholme, Tyrande is not committing shit because she's busy looking for answers in the Shadowlands.

Yes when you open the door for revenge you are in a fork in the road.

As for the sane to do, no it's not sane to seek revenge at all costs, that's Arthas logic. At some point there's a divergence in what's worth "revenging" for and what you are sacrificing to get that "revenge". The sane person/character seeks Justice not revenge.

[Varodoc]

Yes when you open the door for revenge you are in a fork in the road.

As for the sane to do, no it's not sane to seek revenge at all costs, that's Arthas logic. At some point there's a divergence in what's worth "revenging" for and what you are sacrificing to get that "revenge". The sane person/character seeks Justice not revenge.

Then I guess every major character in Warcraft is on that same path, since everyone is vengeful in one way or another, at which point why even bother singling out Tyrande.

[tommyhil622]

Then I guess every major character in Warcraft is on that same path, since everyone is vengeful in one way or another, at which point why even bother singling out Tyrande.

I was talking about the Faction leaders, not everyone in the world who wants revenge. She was relevant to the discussion, random characters aren't.

[Varodoc]

I was talking about the Faction leaders, not everyone in the world who wants revenge. She was relevant to the discussion, random characters aren't.

No, you were talking about Tyrande supposedly being on the path to corruption because she wants revenge. Yet every Alliance leader at the very least wants revenge on Sylvanas. So let me ask you again, why are you only mentioning Tyrande?

[tommyhil622]

No, you were talking about Tyrande supposedly being on the path to corruption because she wants revenge. Yet every Alliance leader at the very least wants revenge on Sylvanas. So let me ask you again, why are you only mentioning Tyrande?

No you brought the revenge topic when you jumped on an answer i gave another person . We can make a thread about this if you like, don't wish to de-rail this one.

[Varodoc]

No you brought the revenge topic when you jumped on an answer i gave another person . We can make a thread about this if you like, don't wish to de-rail this one.

I mean, because revenge is the only vague reason she could have for supposedly becoming corrupted.

[Cherry123]

Hope Anduin becomes absolute evil "that's the price of peace"

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Nice little moment of Alex and Ysera. Didn't know they're literal sisters that came from the same clutch.

[bagina]

On a different note from the main Kyrian/Forsworn story, which upon further reading does have some good bits in that despite being transparently evil Lysonia at least approaches having a motive, there's this less than promising part.



We know from Edge of Night that Arthas was already in the Maw but then we also know Uther was not blue and talking to the player as early as Legion and here we are. Bringing Arthas back in a large capacity would be a massive mistake, but redeeming him even more so.

This whole questline made me roll my eyes so hard I could see my brain. Well, looks like another case of
"1) enemies make a valid point
2) the good guys face a potential identity crisis
3) the enemies turn into cartoonish villains so the good guys can retain the moral highground and defeat them without feeling bad about themselves
4) the issue that started the whole conflict is never adressed or mentioned again"

That's a standard thing with WoW so can't say I'm surprised. There goes my respect for Uther. He's gross.

Now another thing that pisses me off is this talk of "vengeance". It seems like seeking justice is not allowed in WoW universe and any character that displays any negative feelings or expresses pain is immediately chastised or portrayed as wrong and irrational. There's no middle ground or nuance, any character that wants their wrongdoer to face justice for their crimes is suddenly "consumed by vengeance". That's fucked. I might not care for Tyrande but I think she's 100% justified and has every right to be fucking pissed. For real, in every civilized society criminal has to face punishment adequate to their crimes. That's a thing that's widely agreed upon. Now this thing with Uther. Arthas deserved punishment, period. If Uther forgave Arthas that's more power to him, but that doesn't give him the right to absolve Arthas of punishment. That's being a self-rightous and self-important dick.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Now another thing that pisses me off is this talk of "vengeance". It seems like seeking justice is not allowed in WoW universe and any character that displays any negative feelings or expresses pain is immediately chastised or portrayed as wrong and irrational. There's no middle ground or nuance, any character that wants their wrongdoer to face justice for their crimes is suddenly "consumed by vengeance". That's fucked. I might not care for Tyrande but I think she's 100% justified and has every right to be fucking pissed. For real, in every civilized society criminal has to face punishment adequate to their crimes. That's a thing that's widely agreed upon. Now this thing with Uther. Arthas deserved punishment, period. If Uther forgave Arthas that's more power to him, but that doesn't give him the right to absolve Arthas of punishment. That's being a self-rightous and self-important dick.

Hmmm... Well Bwonsamdi's pissed of at Mueh'zala (rightfully so, he's stealing Loa from Ardenweald) and he's not 'consumed by vengeance' but he does want the crap going on to stop, and needs our help to do it. Let's hope they don't write him differently now.

Plus, he hates Sylvanas, thinks she's going too far and wants her head (or not. He seemed ok after Talanji told him no)

[Varodoc]

Arthas is 100% coming back, and his redemption arc will be cringe but infinitely better than Sylvanas'.

Even a noob writer can make it work because you have the perfect setup. It was already stated the last fraction of good Arthas was the only thing keeping the Lich King at bay from annihilating all life on the planet. All they need to do is use that plot point as basis to bring back the good Arthas, and then work from there.

[bagina]

Arthas is 100% coming back, and his redemption arc will be cringe but infinitely better than Sylvanas'.

We have a time traveler here.

[Varodoc]

We have a time traveler here.

I still don't understand how some people like you are so naive to believe Arthas won't be coming back. We're going to the afterlife, which is where he is located, and he is the most popular character in the franchise... you really don't need time travel to figure this out.

[bagina]

I still don't understand how some people like you are so naive to believe Arthas won't be coming back. We're going to the afterlife, which is where he is located, and he is the most popular character in the franchise... you really don't need time travel to figure this out.

I obviously meant the second part where you give some definitive statements about things that haven't happened yet (and may never do).

[Varodoc]

I obviously meant the second part where you give some definitive statements about things that haven't happened yet (and may never do).

Believe what you want, it's useless talking to you. I bet if I said "Sylvanas' redemption arc is 100% coming", you wouldn't have any problem with me.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Believe what you want, it's useless talking to you. I bet if I said "Sylvanas' redemption arc is 100% coming", you wouldn't have any problem with me.

So how do you know it will be "cringe but infinitely better" then?


Unless you are a time traveler and come from the future.

[Varodoc]

So how do you know it will be "cringe but infinitely better" then?


Unless you are a time traveler and come from the future.

The fact that Arthas by default is less cringe than Sylvanas.