SPOILERS: Shadowlands Lore Thread

[bagina]

Believe what you want, it's useless talking to you. I bet if I said "Sylvanas' redemption arc is 100% coming", you wouldn't have any problem with me.

How can you keep missing the point every time? Your hateboner for Sylvanas is clouding your judgement. You can't go one page without mentioning her even when no one else is talking about her. Even though Arthas and Sylvanas are pretty much the same, you deemed Arthas more deserving of redemption just because you have an unhealthy hateboner for her. Which is hilarious. Then you go on to decide that his hypothetical redemption would be better than Sylvanas' hypothetical redemption based on your personal opinion.

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The fact that Arthas by default is less cringe than Sylvanas.

That's your opinion.

[Mehrunes]

The fact that Arthas by default is less cringe than Sylvanas.

Someone hasn't read the Rise of the Lich King and his comically gargantuan daddy issues described in it.

[Super Dickmann]

This whole questline made me roll my eyes so hard I could see my brain. Well, looks like another case of
"1) enemies make a valid point
2) the good guys face a potential identity crisis
3) the enemies turn into cartoonish villains so the good guys can retain the moral highground and defeat them without feeling bad about themselves
4) the issue that started the whole conflict is never adressed or mentioned again"

That's a standard thing with WoW so can't say I'm surprised. There goes my respect for Uther. He's gross.

Now another thing that pisses me off is this talk of "vengeance". It seems like seeking justice is not allowed in WoW universe and any character that displays any negative feelings or expresses pain is immediately chastised or portrayed as wrong and irrational. There's no middle ground or nuance, any character that wants their wrongdoer to face justice for their crimes is suddenly "consumed by vengeance". That's fucked. I might not care for Tyrande but I think she's 100% justified and has every right to be fucking pissed. For real, in every civilized society criminal has to face punishment adequate to their crimes. That's a thing that's widely agreed upon. Now this thing with Uther. Arthas deserved punishment, period. If Uther forgave Arthas that's more power to him, but that doesn't give him the right to absolve Arthas of punishment. That's being a self-rightous and self-important dick.

Tyrande is an apt analogy. Sylvanas and Arthas have both done things to the victim in this case that are so comically beyond the pale that any rational person would not only be wholly justified in wanting to punish them for it, but it'd be amoral to do anything but deliver a punishment. Yet the narrative bends over backwards to portray just wishing harm upon those who've destroyed your land, ruined your life and killed your friends and family, and in Uther's case, quite literally killed you too as misguided for this. It's a relinquishing of the responsibility someone takes to commit acts. We can talk about how Arthas had the soul stole his soul until the cows come home, ditto how Sylvanas lacks legal competence to make decision because she's a zombie against her will or what have you, but these things are piss weak and the narrative's insistence on framing every aggrieved party as being morally deficient is both stupid and worse - boring. The expansion isn't out yet, yet we knew from when Tyrande mentioned a grievance against Sadfang instead of just Sylvanas how her story would end up. Ditto, just from how Arthas is spoken about we know that he's likely to get at least a more nuanced showing than Sylvanas will.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

The fact that Arthas by default is less cringe than Sylvanas.

So no actual basis of reasoning as to why. Got it.


Yet another reminder why nobody here takes you seriously.

Infracted.

[Varodoc]

So no actual basis of reasoning as to why. Got it.


Yet another reminder why nobody here takes you seriously.

You dont speak for anyone but yourself. And since you are a Sylvanas fanboy, explaining things to you is meaningless.

Besides I dont care what others think of me on the internet, and no one with a skin does. If anything, the only thing that worries me is that my ignore list might reach its limit.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

You dont speak for anyone but yourself. And since you are a Sylvanas fanboy, explaining things to you is meaningless.

Care to explain that logic? How am I a Sylvanas fanboy?


Is this another take from you with no basis of reasoning?


Your refusal to explain things to people because you deem it meaningless doesn't change everything stated about you. Although you do like to refuse "explaining things" to people, and then follow it up with a baseless accusation towards them.

Besides I dont care what others think of me on the internet, and no one with a skin does. If anything, the only thing that worries me is that my ignore list might reach its limit.

I suspect all of this is very unlikely.

[Daronokk]

Books aren't canon

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Books aren't canon

Yes they are. Why would you think they aren't?

[Mungho]

Old Anduin coming from The Maw (as well as a timeskip from being in the Shadowlands) has already been debunked. The Shadowlands don't experience time dilation, rather, the way time is perceived is different, much like when we dream when asleep.

Source: https://youtu.be/fMQjUIo5wBc?t=406

I didn't mean it had to be a rapid passing of time, just have him be magically aged/cursed like Khadgar was, due to magically induced trauma or torture.

Someone hasn't read the Rise of the Lich King and his comically gargantuan daddy issues described in it.

I hadn't read that one, but isn't it the one where his horse dies and he has a raging tantrum about it? That sounds cringey.

[Skytotem]

[Feanoro]

Tyrande is an apt analogy. Sylvanas and Arthas have both done things to the victim in this case that are so comically beyond the pale that any rational person would not only be wholly justified in wanting to punish them for it, but it'd be amoral to do anything but deliver a punishment. Yet the narrative bends over backwards to portray just wishing harm upon those who've destroyed your land, ruined your life and killed your friends and family, and in Uther's case, quite literally killed you too as misguided for this. It's a relinquishing of the responsibility someone takes to commit acts. We can talk about how Arthas had the soul stole his soul until the cows come home, ditto how Sylvanas lacks legal competence to make decision because she's a zombie against her will or what have you, but these things are piss weak and the narrative's insistence on framing every aggrieved party as being morally deficient is both stupid and worse - boring. The expansion isn't out yet, yet we knew from when Tyrande mentioned a grievance against Sadfang instead of just Sylvanas how her story would end up. Ditto, just from how Arthas is spoken about we know that he's likely to get at least a more nuanced showing than Sylvanas will.

I invite you to consider the writers' public statements on their various views and see if you realize something.

[LemonDemonGirl]

There's a description for De Other Side and Mueh'zala now

[Verdugo]

There's a description for De Other Side and Mueh'zala now

So, the journal basicaly calls Bwonsamdi a bitch.

[Super Dickmann]

I invite you to consider the writers' public statements on their various views and see if you realize something.

You'd need to be way more specific. I've posted conclusions on that front for a fair while while others would get the mods on me.

[LemonDemonGirl]

So, the journal basicaly calls Bwonsamdi a bitch.

Pretty much, yeah. Bwonsamdi also was a former Priest of Mueh'zala so it's not like he didn't follow him right?

[Wyattbw09]

Books aren't canon

You’re thinking of the RPG books. The novels very much are canon.

[Treno]

I didn't mean it had to be a rapid passing of time, just have him be magically aged/cursed like Khadgar was, due to magically induced trauma or torture.

My post was intentedto the entire conversation that was progressing which involved the mistaken understanding of time dilation in the Shadowlands, so my response isn't just to you. I quoted you, as you were the last person to talk on the subject, for people who would be following the conversation chain. I do apologize if that caused confusion.

To clarify, the entire "Old Anduin" theory cropped up due to the misrepresentation of timeflow in the Shadowlands and the minor difference between versions of "Son of the Wolf", which, according to the revision history of Wowpedia, has been known about for years. Wowhead mistook it for a more recent retcon that changes the Light and Void to be more ambiguous than just good and evil, and brought the Old Anduin theory back into the limelight.

The timeline wouldn't match up anyway without a significant retcon. At the current point in the timeline, the bulk of "Son of the Wolf" took place during year 32, at most two years ago. Unless Shadowlands and the followup somehow last for several years, there's nowhere near enough time passed to qualify the future of "many, many years later" outlined on the final page for it to take place so soon after Shadowlands, even if Anduin was magically aged. If anything, hints from Shadows Rising (the tendril of dark energy emanating his hand) imply a growing influence of the Void within Anduin, which was already hinted at through Il'gynoth's whispers. It will be interesting to see what, if anything, happens to Anduin, as he's being placed in Illidan's position from Nighthold.

[Aucald]

Anyone have any ideas what this guy is supposed to be? It looked like a dragon at first, but it's missing most of its body:

[Syegfryed]

There's a description for De Other Side and Mueh'zala now

the description make zero sense to me, plans of ancient times to regain powers, like what

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Anyone have any ideas what this guy is supposed to be? It looked like a dragon at first, but it's missing most of its body:

just because is missing half body don't mean he is something else, the head is definitely dragon-like, he is at least dragon related, maybe a variation of some sort.

[Daronokk]

Yes they are. Why would you think they aren't?

If something that happens in a book contradicts what happens in the game then the game lore is canon. That's why I said books aren't canon.