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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustedsaint View Post
    No
    You don’t play classic for difficult content, you play it for nostalgia/midlife crisis reasons
    Na you play it because it's actually fun and not garbage like retail.

  2. #22
    Luckily i'm one of the (seemingly) few players that dont gives a rats ass about how fast other guilds clear content. I'm genuinly enjoying classic at my own pace, in a laid-back casual guild. I'm happy that i dont have the time on my hands to play 15 hours a day anymore, because that would most certainly ruin my experience.

  3. #23
    No. The raid will be cleared and on farm by many after the first few days. I have no clue why anyone thought classic raiding was going to be hard.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by ZazuuPriest View Post
    Patchwerk requires like 26 people doing ~300 dps the whole fight to kill before the enrage, thats not hard to accomplish on a fight where there is essentially 100% uptime on the boss. It was never hard people were just stupid and most people were playing on dial up internet.

    Any guild that isnt brain dead has been gearing up tanks with the spell hit trinket from ZG. 4H shouldnt be an issue outside of terrible RNG luck.

    Gothik you just stack the UD side a bit more so it doesnt matter how fast you kill shit on the live side

    Even Saph is pretty easy so long as you do the 2 mechanics of the fight correctly i mean he only has like a million health so... hide properly and you wont die if your shamans are worth their salt.
    Trash leading to Loatheb will be fun for average guilds, they respawn.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by glycerethe View Post
    Trash leading to Loatheb will be fun for average guilds, they respawn.
    There is no trash to Loatheb in 40-man Naxxramas.

  6. #26
    Classic Raiding isn't even close to the same mechanic skill requirement as modern day mythic or even heroic raiding. Its just grinding and preparation with gear.

    This is why every single raid has gone down in no time at all after release.

  7. #27
    For the ones racing to kill them, no, the raid will go down within an hour or so of release. For the slow pace raiders, maybe?

  8. #28
    I am Murloc! Chonar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    Cheesed was also meant to be exaggeration more or less, I called it cheesing because for years everyone always pushed the "4HM so hard need 8 fully geared tunks" and all you really needed was a blue trinket from a forgotten boss.
    Back in my day we used 6 warriors, with I believe 4 of us using the trinket. The idea that using a specific trinket was cheesy feels... off, to me. It's not like it gave you foolproof bad luck protection or nothin'.
    Looking marvelous in velvet.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Rustedsaint View Post
    No
    You don’t play classic for difficult content, you play it for nostalgia/midlife crisis reasons
    Oh... thanks for showing me the truth... i am so blind with nostalgia...
    Uhhh... no. I play because i think it is very good game and i like it.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzhands View Post
    Absolutely. Spells and melee abilities missing makes sense for lore reasons, and so does taunting. Taunting in MMOs has often been portrayed as, well, literal taunting, trying to piss someone off and what not. This doesn't always work though, sometimes that Frostbolt just really hurt and that warrior calling you a pussy doesn't really matter right now.

    Cheesed was also meant to be exaggeration more or less, I called it cheesing because for years everyone always pushed the "4HM so hard need 8 fully geared tunks" and all you really needed was a blue trinket from a forgotten boss. The whole "will Classic be hard" shouldn't even be a question at this point with how Classic has gone, so I wanted to be over the top. I honestly wouldn't be surprised it people just brute force it without the trinket just with superior DPS, and even if a taunt misses everyone just fury tanks anyways so there will likely be back up tanks since raids just stack like 30 warriors now.

    I mean, taunt miss chance is 17%. If you use just the trinket you're still at 7% resists. If you use just four piece dreadnaught you're still at 12% resists. You really want both to get it down to 2% resists.


    I would be surprised if people were able to brute force Four Horsemen. They have 600,000 HP and shield wall for 75% reduction at 75, 50, 25% health for 20 seconds. Mark 1 is 250, mark 2 500, mark 3 1000, Mark 4 3,000 damage and mark 5 is 9,000 damage. If we assume a 75% reduction after being reduced to 450,000 HP you'll effectively need to do just shy of 2 million damage to zerg down one Horseman.

    Mark 5 is 60 seconds into the fight. So 1,950,000 in 60 seconds which needs 32,500 raid dps to achieve. The highest raid dps in the world on Ebonroc is 29,735 and that's with 6 healers, 2 tanks and a 30 second fight duration with 66% uptime on cooldowns. You really need 12 healers and at least 6 tanks for Horsemen logistically, maybe 10 healers if you were zerging one. Maybe on a darkmoon faire week the highest dps guilds in the entire world with 20 warrior dps might be able to pull it off.


    Also mods if you're going to edit my posts please don't make them imply a totally different conclusion than the original post.
    Last edited by Nitros14; 2020-08-07 at 10:02 AM.

  11. #31
    The Lightbringer Jazzhands's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitros14 View Post
    I mean, taunt miss chance is 17%. If you use just the trinket you're still at 7% resists. If you use just four piece dreadnaught you're still at 12% resists. You really want both to get it down to 2% resists.


    I would be surprised if people were able to brute force Four Horsemen. They have 600,000 HP and shield wall for 75% reduction at 75, 50, 25% health for 20 seconds. Mark 1 is 250, mark 2 500, mark 3 1000, Mark 4 3,000 damage and mark 5 is 9,000 damage. If we assume a 75% reduction after being reduced to 450,000 HP you'll effectively need to do just shy of 2 million damage to zerg down one Horseman.

    Mark 5 is 60 seconds into the fight. So 1,950,000 in 60 seconds which needs 32,500 raid dps to achieve. The highest raid dps in the world on Ebonroc is 29,735 and that's with 6 healers, 2 tanks and a 30 second fight duration with 66% uptime on cooldowns. You really need 12 healers and at least 6 tanks for Horsemen logistically, maybe 10 healers if you were zerging one. Maybe on a darkmoon faire week the highest dps guilds in the entire world with 20 warrior dps might be able to pull it off.


    Also mods if you're going to edit my posts please don't make them imply a totally different conclusion than the original post.
    Never underestimate sweaty basement private server nerds. AQ40 brings a lot of power, if people were managing close to 30k in BWL, full AQ gear will easily let people break well above 32k, and depending on how quickly two horsemen can be killed, the required healers might be less. There are a lot of variables but one thing that's been constant is that there isn't a single thing in this game that posses a challenge anymore, and 4HM will be no exception. They might not brute force it in the strictest definition, but I doubt high end guilds will even need a single t3 geared warrior, let alone 6-8 like everyone who's ever gushed over how hard 4HM was thought before the trinket became common knowledge.
    Last edited by Jazzhands; 2020-08-07 at 07:11 PM.

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsyplenk View Post
    Na you play it because it's actually fun and not garbage like retail.
    Bosses with no mechanics that die in less than a minute isn't very fun for people who like challenging games.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorri View Post
    A lot of raiding bosses in classic go down fast after they're released. Even the ones that "require" resistance gear. Will any bosses in Naxxramas be difficult at release? I remember Patchwerk being a simple boss tactics wise, but had a very high gear requirement due to his high health, damage, and short enrage timer. Then there's Sapphiron and the "need" for frost resistance gear. The 4 horsemen required many tanks. I don't expect Kel'thuzad to be much of a problem though.
    Will any bosses in Molten Core be difficult in the beginning?
    Will any bosses in Blackwing Lair be difficult in the beginning?
    Will any bosses in Ahn'Qiraj be difficult in the beginning?

    Every raid has been cleared under an hour. Why would Naxx be any different?

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    Will any bosses in Molten Core be difficult in the beginning?
    Will any bosses in Blackwing Lair be difficult in the beginning?
    Will any bosses in Ahn'Qiraj be difficult in the beginning?

    Every raid has been cleared under an hour. Why would Naxx be any different?
    Naxx has more bosses in it. It will take 1.5 hours!

  15. #35
    there are a few bosses where a small mistake or untimely death can cause a wipe, erasing world buffs and making the remaining portion of the raid significantly harder. this probably wont affect the very top guilds, but for average guilds it can make things harder than people may anticipate.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsyplenk View Post
    Na you play it because it's actually fun and not garbage like retail.
    Try doing a boss outside of LFR and you'll see where the fun actually lies. Just because you refuse to actually try something difficult in retail doesn't make the game bad, it just makes you bad.
    "Why of course the people don't want war…. But, after all… it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Sentynel View Post
    Every raid has been cleared under an hour. Why would Naxx be any different?
    Because Naxx is the *ONLY* raid that was tuned for the current state of the game?

    Not saying naxx will be hard, but everyone who uses your argument has the fundamental flaw that *none* of the content up to now was ever tuned for the itemization and talents that we currently have. As I recall, mid way through AQ40 is where it became commonplace for most raiding guilds to even run full consumables, and so the Devs even balanced Naxx around that idea. Whereas not even AQ40 (Despite all it's difficulty at the time) was tuned with that in mind. These things very well could make huge differences.

    If we had original talents and gear, MC and BWL would not have been cleared nearly as quickly (Tank threat alone would have been roughly halved, which makes a huge difference on many bosses)
    Quote Originally Posted by Teffi
    You play a game for 20+ hours a week and you're "an addict".
    You sit on your fat ass eating nachos and watching men in tight pants throw a ball around for 20+ hours a week and you're "a man".
    Sometimes, I just can't even:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx
    It's just an assertion, so it's neither logical nor illogical.

  18. #38
    The top guilds who have killed this all before are going to clear Naxxramas very quickly.

    It'll be more interesting for the rest of the guilds.

  19. #39
    If bosses are not gated behind long farms which become available AFTER they are releaed they will not be difficult. Mechanics are known and players have the skills which are not set very high.

  20. #40
    this patch was the "last patch of vanilla" where everyone was MUCH more powerful than when naxx was actually released. this whole classic experiment was fucked up because they wanted to use the pre-expansion catch-up patch so that people could do shit. they know most of their playerbase is fucking retarded, so they made it easier than when it was live

    naxx had been cleared MONTHS before the patch that classic is using even came out and it was essentially a 20-30% nerf of everything due to the player power level increasing

    it's why classic is a waste of fucking time. if you want the real experience, you still gotta find a private server

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by xGLxAnubis View Post
    Because Naxx is the *ONLY* raid that was tuned for the current state of the game?

    Not saying naxx will be hard, but everyone who uses your argument has the fundamental flaw that *none* of the content up to now was ever tuned for the itemization and talents that we currently have. As I recall, mid way through AQ40 is where it became commonplace for most raiding guilds to even run full consumables, and so the Devs even balanced Naxx around that idea. Whereas not even AQ40 (Despite all it's difficulty at the time) was tuned with that in mind. These things very well could make huge differences.

    If we had original talents and gear, MC and BWL would not have been cleared nearly as quickly (Tank threat alone would have been roughly halved, which makes a huge difference on many bosses)
    naxx isn't tuned for shit, the patch they chose for classic nerfed 100% of the game which is why shit dies so quickly. the only people who don't realize that classic =/= vanilla are the fucking losers who didn't even play then

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Mrbleedinggums View Post
    Try doing a boss outside of LFR and you'll see where the fun actually lies. Just because you refuse to actually try something difficult in retail doesn't make the game bad, it just makes you bad.
    the game isn't fun anymore, that's why most of us quit you nigger

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