Sentenced to life imprisonment for trying to steal hedge clippers.

[zhero]

the guy clearly had no interest in being free, or he would have stopped stealing a long time ago.

[RobertoCarlos]

Sure, sucks when your shit gets stolen.

What's that got to do with a man getting life in prison over a petty crime?

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I'm sorry...when did we start sending people to prison for life because they might have done some other shit?

Life in prison is to much but doing nothing is just as bad. There should be a more healthy middle ground

[Egomaniac]

Life in prison is to much but doing nothing is just as bad. There should be a more healthy middle ground

No one has suggested doing nothing.

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the guy clearly had no interest in being free, or he would have stopped stealing a long time ago.

He's been in prison for 23 years. So I guess he did stop stealing a long time ago.

[draynay]

Life in prison is to much but doing nothing is just as bad. There should be a more healthy middle ground

...and where are the people advocating doing nothing?

[Santti]

Vengeance over rehabilitation. Vengeance is going to work as a deterrent, any day now. Oh well, I'm sure the private prisons are quite thankful.

[Templar 331]

People are only punished for the crimes they're convicted of, not the crimes they may have done but nobody knows about. What kind of nonsense is this?

It was a comment on his character, not his sentencing. Being caught multiple times stealing means there's a chance he's done it times before without getting caught. I'm not saying hold him accountable for those times just that a habitual offender has a habit.

Considering the US prison system isn't designed for rehabilitation especially once you're out, but rather on recidivisms needed to keep private prisons packed...is this remotely a surprise? The US prison system is an absolute crock of shit, and is not set up to benefit those incarcerated (rehabilitate them, get them training, help them back into society so that they don't re-offend) but rather around perpetual prisoners.

The prison system doesn't make them criminals and doesn't incentivize them to be one. I know that the industry wants as many inmates as possible but the choice to commit a crime is theirs alone.

Prisons also have training programs to help them to learn skills to support themselves once they leave. One of the people who taught me how to weld learned how to in prison. He was a piece of shit, but he learned a trade and chose not to be a criminal when he got out.

[Mihalik]

Life in prison is to much but doing nothing is just as bad. There should be a more healthy middle ground

I don't think anyone here said he shouldn't have been punished.

But the point is that WE KNOW FOR A MATTER OF FACT that in the US prisons are designed as such that almost nobody who ever goes to prison is rehabilitated. People spend way too long in prison for minor crimes, while simultaneously are dehumanized and traumatized in prison, receive job skills and flat zero support or guidance once released. So every time someone ends up not going back to jail is a minor fucking miracle that beats the odds.

In that circumstance you just end up with an endless cycle of crime-prison-crime-prison where society is not protected from further crime and the taxpayers are paying for a massive bloated nonsensical prison system that just produces broken humans by the millions. And that's while ignoring the inherent racism and class privilege present in the justice system where bwankers are never prosecuted for laundering drug cartel money and illegally foreclosing homes and white college jocks get a slap on the wrist for murdering and raping people while poor knuckleheads like one get spend 60% of their lives in jail for petty theft.

[Edge-]

The prison system doesn't make them criminals and doesn't incentivize them to be one. I know that the industry wants as many inmates as possible but the choice to commit a crime is theirs alone.

Sure, if you ignore underlying societal factors like how poverty is one of the primary drivers of crime. And ignore mountains of context like how prisoners often leave prison with considerable court debt, greatly diminished job prospects due to their criminal records, and often without any assistance to transition back to regular society it's not remotely surprising that many may re-offend. Maybe they stole out of what they viewed was necessity to eat? Maybe they got back in with the old crowd that got them in prison before, because they had nowhere else to go?

Or maybe they just are rotten.

Prisons also have training programs to help them to learn skills to support themselves once they leave. One of the people who taught me how to weld learned how to in prison. He was a piece of shit, but he learned a trade and chose not to be a criminal when he got out.

Some* prisons have those programs. And the quality of those programs and ability for inmates to access them varies greatly. Most have only come to be a thing after years of fighting for them by both prisoners and outside groups seeking to offer education and training to prisoners to better set them up for success outside of prison. Not because the prison itself had or has a vested interest in actually trying to work to improve the lives of inmates so they don't re-offend.

[Shadowferal]

*shrugs*
Around here, 3 strikes with misdeameanors and then it's an automatic 3rd degree felony for the next.
If you haven't learned any lessons by then, and this includes "How to be a better thief," then you have no business running free.

[Mihalik]

It was a comment on his character, not his sentencing. Being caught multiple times stealing means there's a chance he's done it times before without getting caught. I'm not saying hold him accountable for those times just that a habitual offender has a habit.



The prison system doesn't make them criminals and doesn't incentivize them to be one. I know that the industry wants as many inmates as possible but the choice to commit a crime is theirs alone.

Prisons also have training programs to help them to learn skills to support themselves once they leave. One of the people who taught me how to weld learned how to in prison. He was a piece of shit, but he learned a trade and chose not to be a criminal when he got out.

Yeah that's not how ANYTHING works.

Most criminals end up as criminals because of socio-economic circumstances. Which is why crime rates tend to be much higher in poor populations, a problem compounded by things like systemic racism which is wildly prevalent in the US.

Furthermore things like job training, job placement etc in the US is faaaaaaaaaaaaaar and few in between, almost all of the programs are completely underfunded and often the certifications they provide aren't actually up to requirements on the job market. Even assuming you are one of the lucky ones who got through a program and got some sort of marketable job skill, to this day most employers will not hire cons whose records haven't been wiped, which depending on the crime committed might take years to decades to do, if it is possible at all.

[Shadowferal]

Well he gets a room, a bed, clothing, and medical.

[Edge-]

Well he gets a room, a bed, clothing, and medical.

What more could someone ask for.

Maybe freedom?

[Logwyn]

*shrugs*
Around here, 3 strikes with misdeameanors and then it's an automatic 3rd degree felony for the next.
If you haven't learned any lessons by then, and this includes "How to be a better thief," then you have no business running free.

What class of misdemeanor? I'm sure they don't give you a 3rd-degree felony for jaywalking three times or three speeding tickets.

[Templar 331]

Sure, if you ignore underlying societal factors like how poverty is one of the primary drivers of crime. And ignore mountains of context like how prisoners often leave prison with considerable court debt, greatly diminished job prospects due to their criminal records, and often without any assistance to transition back to regular society it's not remotely surprising that many may re-offend. Maybe they stole out of what they viewed was necessity to eat? Maybe they got back in with the old crowd that got them in prison before, because they had nowhere else to go?

Or maybe they just are rotten.

Explain to me how some shears are worth going back to prison for or are necessary to eat.

Some* prisons have those programs. And the quality of those programs and ability for inmates to access them varies greatly. Most have only come to be a thing after years of fighting for them by both prisoners and outside groups seeking to offer education and training to prisoners to better set them up for success outside of prison. Not because the prison itself had or has a vested interest in actually trying to work to improve the lives of inmates so they don't re-offend.

You act like no one has ever gotten a job without training before. There's a reason why I've worked alongside people in the manufacturing sector that have been to prison. Sure it's not the best pay but it's where many have started at.

Yeah that's not how ANYTHING works.

Most criminals end up as criminals because of socio-economic circumstances. Which is why crime rates tend to be much higher in poor populations, a problem compounded by things like systemic racism which is wildly prevalent in the US.

The racist white man didn't make him steal.

But if you want to fix the prison problem, don't coddle the criminals. Prevent them by improving their socio-economic circumstances before they commit a crime. They knew what they were doing before they did it.

[Edge-]

Explain to me how some shears are worth going back to prison for or are necessary to eat.

They're not, which we're in agreement on. As to why he did it, I'm not him. I don't know the specifics of his situation at the time or why he did it. But his reasoning doesn't much matter to me, even if it was "to be a dick". It doesn't justify life in prison. Period. Even in context with his prior convictions.

You act like no one has ever gotten a job without training before.

They have! And most of those jobs play poverty wages which do absolutely nothing to help people getting out of prison and struggling with poverty. And we know poverty is a major driver of crime to boot.

But even that is hard to get with a criminal history, as most employers are extremely reluctant to hire former prisoners. Unless you're a white collar criminal, at least.

There's a reason why I've worked alongside people in the manufacturing sector that have been to prison. Sure it's not the best pay but it's where many have started at.

Cool, glad the places you work(ed) were willing to give those folks a chance.

It's still a major problem and barrier to successful re-entry into society - https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/outofwork.html

The racist white man didn't make him steal.

This is true, if we're talking about "directly".

If we look historically at systemic racism and policies targeted at keeping blacks poor, then there are absolutely plenty of strong arguments that "the racist white man" has created a system of generational poverty for people of color, especially black people, that's self-perpetuating and self-reinforcing. And that it's those policies that led to poverty which, again, is a major driver in criminal activity.

But if you want to fix the prison problem, don't coddle the criminals. Prevent them by improving their socio-economic circumstances before they commit a crime. They knew what they were doing before they did it.

That's literally what fighting against systemic racism is all about, and is what a multitude of social movements and activist groups have been and are working on for the better part of well over half a decade or longer.

Entrenched racism and systems created by largely white folks that benefit largely white folks are usually pretty hard to change though.

[Daedius]

That's just obscene... life sentencings should be for violent criminals that area danger to society, petty theft isn't...

[Egomaniac]

Well he gets a room, a bed, clothing, and medical.

And the tax payers are paying for it all. Currently the tab is ~$500 thousand. On track for $1 million if he lives another 20 years.

$1 million dollars to keep a non-violent offender locked up for life.

That seem like a good use of tax dollars to you? Do you feel safer knowing that your lawn tools are safe from this "menace to society"?

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Explain to me how some shears are worth going back to prison for or are necessary to eat.

Explain to me how garden shears are worth life in prison. Explain to me why any non-violent offender needs to be given a life sentence.

But if you want to fix the prison problem, don't coddle the criminals.

Suggesting that life in prison is too extreme a sentence to be given to non-violent offenders is not "coddling criminals"

[Templar 331]

That's literally what fighting against systemic racism is all about, and is what a multitude of social movements and activist groups have been and are working on for the better part of well over half a decade or longer.

Entrenched racism and systems created by largely white folks that benefit largely white folks are usually pretty hard to change though.

Just to be clear, I support these movements and the equality they fight for. What I'm against is the idea that because they are black that they are automatically disenfranchised enough to warrant sympathy for committing a crime.

If you look at my location you'll see that the town I've lived in since I was eight has a black population greater than white. I grew up with these people, went to school with them, went to college with them, work with them. Are they any different than me? No. Some grew up in the bad parts of town, some grew up in the good parts of town. Some had broken households, some didn't. They are no different than most of the white families around here.

So why should they to be treated like it's not their fault for committing a crime? That is not equality.

Explain to me how garden shears are worth life in prison. Explain to me why any non-violent offender needs to be given a life sentence.

I'm not advocating life sentence for minor crimes, but I do support accumulative punishment for repeat offenders.

Suggesting that life in prison is too extreme a sentence to be given to non-violent offenders is not "coddling criminals"

It's not, but suggesting that their actions aren't their fault and shouldn't be punished is.

[RobertoCarlos]

Some people don't give a shit.

You can't coddle everyone. Some people just do not want to be apart of society and no amount of prison will change that.

Does it mean we should lock everyone up? No. But no one made him steal shears when he knew he was on his last strike. He should have been on his best behaviour not continuing to steal

[smityx]

Sure, sucks when your shit gets stolen.

What's that got to do with a man getting life in prison over a petty crime?

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I'm sorry...when did we start sending people to prison for life because they might have done some other shit?

That's not what I was saying. I'm saying he was caught 3 times doing something. Are you suggesting that he was so incompetent that he only broke the law 3 times and was caught each time. No obviously he's a recidivist and most likely he's committed other crimes that he's gotten away with and will never be charged.

What I'm suggesting instead of 3 strikes and life in prison. Is that each time you get caught committing a crime your sentence gets harsher and harsher. So you don't get the cases where guys end up with a life sentences because their 3rd strike was stealing a candy bar.