Will any bosses in Naxxramas be difficult in the beginning?

[Vampyrr]

Na you play it because it's actually fun and not garbage like retail.

That of course is your opinion but a very large chunk of the playerbase disagree with it. I did not find classic enjoyable at all, I found it slow and tedious and a tad monotonous. But that is my opinion which I am not stating as fact.

[Daymanmb]

Unfortunately it wont be hard, it just requires a lot of coordination on the fights, which the guilds that will destroy it have been practicing for years playing the private servers.

I mean, none of our raid played private servers and clear AQ in one night. I dont think classic content is half as hard as people claim. And its not even about difficulty, its about a fun mmo.

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Bosses with no mechanics that die in less than a minute isn't very fun for people who like challenging games.

Good thing fun is subjective, huh?

[Sentynel]

Because Naxx is the *ONLY* raid that was tuned for the current state of the game?

Not saying naxx will be hard, but everyone who uses your argument has the fundamental flaw that *none* of the content up to now was ever tuned for the itemization and talents that we currently have. As I recall, mid way through AQ40 is where it became commonplace for most raiding guilds to even run full consumables, and so the Devs even balanced Naxx around that idea. Whereas not even AQ40 (Despite all it's difficulty at the time) was tuned with that in mind. These things very well could make huge differences.

If we had original talents and gear, MC and BWL would not have been cleared nearly as quickly (Tank threat alone would have been roughly halved, which makes a huge difference on many bosses)

Aight, I'm just gonna save this post and quote it after Naxx drops and falls within an hour.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Na you play it because it's actually fun and not garbage like retail.

you mean auto attack a boss for 80% of your uptime is fun? and not a midlife crisis caused by you being kicked from a retail raid for grey parses? good to know :O

[Vilendor]

A lot of raiding bosses in classic go down fast after they're released. Even the ones that "require" resistance gear. Will any bosses in Naxxramas be difficult at release? I remember Patchwerk being a simple boss tactics wise, but had a very high gear requirement due to his high health, damage, and short enrage timer. Then there's Sapphiron and the "need" for frost resistance gear. The 4 horsemen required many tanks. I don't expect Kel'thuzad to be much of a problem though.

I saw some streamer do the math on Patchwerk. I don't remember the exact numbers, but all damage dealer need to do around 600 dps to kill him before enrage. People do 1000+ dps already in BWL gear. Naxx will be a shitshow

[threads]

naxx will be a joke like the rest of classic is

[xGLxAnubis]

... the only people who don't realize that classic =/= vanilla ...

Preaching to the choir. I've said the exact same thing on these forums.

[OrcsRLame]

Try doing a boss outside of LFR and you'll see where the fun actually lies. Just because you refuse to actually try something difficult in retail doesn't make the game bad, it just makes you bad.

LFR is unironically harder than anything in classic. N'zoth will actually put it in your ass.

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this patch was the "last patch of vanilla" where everyone was MUCH more powerful than when naxx was actually released. this whole classic experiment was fucked up because they wanted to use the pre-expansion catch-up patch so that people could do shit. they know most of their playerbase is fucking retarded, so they made it easier than when it was live

naxx had been cleared MONTHS before the patch that classic is using even came out and it was essentially a 20-30% nerf of everything due to the player power level increasing

it's why classic is a waste of fucking time. if you want the real experience, you still gotta find a private server

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naxx isn't tuned for shit, the patch they chose for classic nerfed 100% of the game which is why shit dies so quickly. the only people who don't realize that classic =/= vanilla are the fucking losers who didn't even play then

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the game isn't fun anymore, that's why most of us quit you nigger

Classic is on the 1.12 patch. Naxx released on 1.11. This is the 1.12 patch. https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.12.0

There's no changes to Naxx. Most changes are bug fixes or tooltip clarifications. The only significant changes are the rework to rogue talents.

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Preaching to the choir. I've said the exact same thing on these forums.

Yeah but you guys are wrong. We have the patch notes history. Note the link in the quote above. Vanilla went through no changes of extreme significance from 1.6 to 1.12. The most significant change in the entirety of vanilla was the rework to bloodthirst in 1.6.

[Sithalos]

Not a single boss in Classic is difficult.

[xGLxAnubis]

Yeah but you guys are wrong. We have the patch notes history. Note the link in the quote above. Vanilla went through no changes of extreme significance from 1.6 to 1.12. The most significant change in the entirety of vanilla was the rework to bloodthirst in 1.6.

That's just plain wrong. 1.8 alone brought Dual Wield +hit change, which was a huge DPS increase for Warriors and Rogues. It also added some AP normalization changes, which effectively buffed various MC and BWL weapons. Shield Slam also received an increased threat mod in 1.7. I don't recall by how much, but know it was substantial at the time. This patch also increased the debuff limit... Which is MASSIVE.

That's just off the top of my head (I know of these two specifically because they were huge and I play a warrior.). If I checked the patch notes, I bet I could easily find more.

Edit: There's also a lot of small buffs to abilities over the course of the patches; any individual buff is small, but when added together, becomes substantial. There's also changes like Black Lotus no longer being soulbound and Flasks persisting through death; changes that made flasking actually widely possible.

[OrcsRLame]

That's just plain wrong. 1.8 alone brought Dual Wield +hit change, which was a huge DPS increase for Warriors and Rogues. It also added some AP normalization changes, which effectively buffed various MC and BWL weapons. Shield Slam also received an increased threat mod in 1.7. I don't recall by how much, but know it was substantial at the time. This patch also increased the debuff limit... Which is MASSIVE.

That's just off the top of my head (I know of these two specifically because they were huge and I play a warrior.). If I checked the patch notes, I bet I could easily find more.

Edit: There's also a lot of small buffs to abilities over the course of the patches; any individual buff is small, but when added together, becomes substantial. There's also changes like Black Lotus no longer being soulbound and Flasks persisting through death; changes that made flasking actually widely possible.

The +hit change had no effect on the dps of geared warriors, since heroic strike was bugged from release to the Cataclysm pre patch to cause your off hand hits to not miss if heroic strike was queued. That bug still exists in classic btw. It was probably left in intentionally since it's such a huge buff to warrior dps.

If we had a progressive patch cycle top guilds would just not bring rogues to raid. Without their talent rework from 1.12 and the dual wield hit change from 1.8 they would be a meme class.

I take it since you didn't contest the point about Naxx you admit you were wrong about that?

[Itori]

with todays information and years of private server min/maxing being brought in, i doubt the dungeon lasts more than 3 hours, the horse may present a challenge due to having to spread out everyone efficiently but thats about it. I never made it to this raid back in vanilla so i can hardly comment, but im sure todays community can just walk in and destroy everything.

[Daedius]

Unless they overtune, which wouldn't be in the vein of "#nochanges!", no... no it won't when people would know ancient boss fights.

[xGLxAnubis]

The +hit change had no effect on the dps of geared warriors, since heroic strike was bugged from release to the Cataclysm pre patch to cause your off hand hits to not miss if heroic strike was queued. That bug still exists in classic btw. It was probably left in intentionally since it's such a huge buff to warrior dps.

If we had a progressive patch cycle top guilds would just not bring rogues to raid. Without their talent rework from 1.12 and the dual wield hit change from 1.8 they would be a meme class.

I take it since you didn't contest the point about Naxx you admit you were wrong about that?

HS queuing, while beneficial, doesn't replace raw hit to Dual Wield because it's humanly impossible to have perfect queuing. The DW change still made a huge impact for Warriors. And you've completely ignored the debuff slots... Which is arguably one of the most impactful changes in the entire game and happened after 1.6. "Vanilla went through no changes of extreme significance from 1.6 to 1.12" is just plain false, based on the debuff slots ALONE, and then there's the other examples I offered up.

I don't know what you're claiming I was wrong about on Naxx; the only thing I claimed is that Naxx is the only raid that was tuned for the talents and itemization that we currently have. Reread my posts.

[Kuja]

It would be sweet if they overbuff Naxx. Make a few bosses so hard it will take more than a day, or even weeks to clear. It's after all the last content patch(?), so there's nothing more coming to Classic, as far as I know.

[hulkgor]

A lot of raiding bosses in classic go down fast after they're released. Even the ones that "require" resistance gear. Will any bosses in Naxxramas be difficult at release? I remember Patchwerk being a simple boss tactics wise, but had a very high gear requirement due to his high health, damage, and short enrage timer. Then there's Sapphiron and the "need" for frost resistance gear. The 4 horsemen required many tanks. I don't expect Kel'thuzad to be much of a problem though.

For the private server, try hard, guilds? Not a chance.

For the average guilds? Yes. Immensely.

People need to realize there are various levels of player skill, knowledge and commitment, and they are very far apart from each other.

Just because Onslaught killed C'thun in a 38m run, doesn't mean the vast majority of the guilds won't have a harder time on the raid.

Give it a rest.

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It would be sweet if they overbuff Naxx. Make a few bosses so hard it will take more than a day, or even weeks to clear. It's after all the last content patch(?), so there's nothing more coming to Classic, as far as I know.

If the 'top', crazy guilds take days\weeks to kill a boss, it would most likely be impossible for the average guilds. That's asinine.

[Nitros14]

A lot of raiding bosses in classic go down fast after they're released. Even the ones that "require" resistance gear. Will any bosses in Naxxramas be difficult at release? I remember Patchwerk being a simple boss tactics wise, but had a very high gear requirement due to his high health, damage, and short enrage timer. Then there's Sapphiron and the "need" for frost resistance gear. The 4 horsemen required many tanks. I don't expect Kel'thuzad to be much of a problem though.

On the servers that must not be named Kel'Thuzad wiped top guilds more than any other boss combined.

Patchwerk was never hard because of enrage timer. You only need ~300 dps per dps to kill him in time. It's a healing and tank check.

Loatheb is the dps check, you'll need around ~700 dps per dps to kill him before the soft enrage. You do get a buff but you also lose 24 seconds to bandaging and have to run around after the spores.

[Jurwi]

It will be just like every other raid in Classic, top hardcore guilds will just run in and oneshot everything while average guilds might struggle couple evenings to clear it for the first week. It's just piss easy content compared to retail.

[jba252]

It will be just like every other raid in Classic, top hardcore guilds will just run in and oneshot everything while average guilds might struggle couple evenings to clear it for the first week. It's just piss easy content compared to retail.

Classic is retail.

Same sub, built off of legion architecture, bnet included and same playerbase mentality.

Retail was a term created/used by private server players when they did not have an option to pay to play a vanilla version of the game and now they do.

Welcome to retail.

[Rhelyo]

It would be sweet if they overbuff Naxx. Make a few bosses so hard it will take more than a day, or even weeks to clear. It's after all the last content patch(?), so there's nothing more coming to Classic, as far as I know.

And why would they do that exactly? If they did want classic to have a longer life they would have taken that approach after the 1st raid that was cleared within hours meaning following MC.
Blizzard is delivering exactly what the playerbase wanted.Vanilla experience and nothing more.
If you want challenging bosses you go retail heroic or mythic.That is where the challenge is.Where the bosses have more than 2-3 mechanincs and more than tank and spank phase.
People who think Classic is more difficult than retail they obviously raided lfr only.I do not have anything against people swapping to classic just for the nostalgia.