Horde Reparations

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

So basically you're saying it's totally ok for the Alliance to keep slaves because the only alternative is murder. Ok.

This is a interesting topic. What do you think the Alliance should have done with the subdued Orc invaders?

[TheRevenantHero]

This is a interesting topic. What do you think the Alliance should have done with the subdued Orc invaders?

Rehabilitation. Instead of treating them like wild animals, they should have imprisoned them in humane conditions in order to bring them away from the fel. But no. It's much better to perpetuate war by treating them like mindless savages instead of people.

- - - Updated - - -

So basically you're defending the perpetrators of a continent spanning massacre, based on the actions taken against them AFTER that unprovoked massacre. OK.

"Hey, these guys nearly ended all of us, but they're beaten now. Let's just let them go their merry way, what could go wrong?" Anyone thinking like that would have to be a complete idiot who didn't remotely care about his own people.

Orc apologists always say something on the lines of there should have been no repercussions whatsoever for the Old Horde's rampage. Any action against the Horde is automatically unjustified because reasons.

Way to put words in my mouth. The war with the fel orcs ended roughly 15 years ago in lore yet the Alliance continues to hold orcs as slaves. You don't fix things between people by treating either side as mindless savages. That's how you create MORE war.

[Minikin]

That would be all well and good if, in canon, the Alliance didn't still keep orcs as slaves.

So what should they have done?

[qwerty123456]

That would be all well and good if, in canon, the Alliance didn't still keep orcs as slaves.

I forget where did Varian and Valeera spend a bunch of time together?....

[TheRevenantHero]

I forget where did Varian and Valeera spend a bunch of time together?....

....Relevance?

- - - Updated - - -

So what should they have done?

Already addressed this.

[Ielenia]

That would be all well and good if, in canon, the Alliance didn't still keep orcs as slaves.

• They had no way of returning the orcs back to where they came from.
• There was no guarantees that the orcs would go on another bloodlust if unchecked.
• Might as well put them to work as punishment for what they did.

Remember: the Alliance did not attack the orcs and enslaved them. The orcs attacked. This isn't me "condoning slavery", I'm just pointing out that the orcs becoming slaves can be seen as a form of punishment.

- - - Updated - - -

Rehabilitation. Instead of treating them like wild animals, they should have imprisoned them in humane conditions in order to bring them away from the fel. But no. It's much better to perpetuate war by treating them like mindless savages instead of people.

You're assuming that the humans knew at the time about the blood corruption going on with the orcs.

They didn't.

For all they know, what they saw of the orcs was all that the orcs were.

[TheRevenantHero]

• They had no way of returning the orcs back to where they came from.
• There was no guarantees that the orcs would go on another bloodlust if unchecked.
• Might as well put them to work as punishment for what they did.

Remember: the Alliance did not attack the orcs and enslaved them. The orcs attacked. This isn't me "condoning slavery", I'm just pointing out that the orcs becoming slaves can be seen as a form of punishment.

- - - Updated - - -


You're assuming that the humans knew at the time about the blood corruption going on with the orcs.

They didn't.

For all they know, what they saw of the orcs was all that the orcs were.

Even after they found out about the corruption, they still treated orcs more like animals than people. And continue to keep them as slaves to this day in lore.

[Underverse]

Well I guess if you're offering, we can let the survivors of Teldrassil to dredge the Undercity.

[Ielenia]

Even after they found out about the corruption, they still treated orcs more like animals than people. And continue to keep them as slaves to this day in lore.

To this day, you say? Is there any record of that?

[TheRevenantHero]

To this day, you say? Is there any record of that?

In the Precious Cargo quest, you rescue Thrall from becoming a slave to the Alliance again.

[Sluvs]

• They had no way of returning the orcs back to where they came from.
• There was no guarantees that the orcs would go on another bloodlust if unchecked.
• Might as well put them to work as punishment for what they did.

Remember: the Alliance did not attack the orcs and enslaved them. The orcs attacked. This isn't me "condoning slavery", I'm just pointing out that the orcs becoming slaves can be seen as a form of punishment.

- - - Updated - - -


You're assuming that the humans knew at the time about the blood corruption going on with the orcs.

They didn't.

For all they know, what they saw of the orcs was all that the orcs were.

Ok, but the orcs were corrupted and being controlled by the demons right? So hanging the invasion above their heads while they barely had control over it is incredibly unfair. Is the same thing as saying the forsaken destroyed silvermoon, which is a lie. So yeah, they were being punished for crimes they could not do anything about. What the fel horde dis so long ago should have no bearing at all over the current horde.

[Feanoro]

....Relevance?

The relevance is the answer to @qwerty123456's rhetorical question was that Varian and Valeera were both slaves and gladiators for the Horde. Thrall did exactly zip to end slavery in the Horde, and exactly nowhere is it shown that the Horde has any problems with it. The Horde thus has no moral high ground whatsoever to whine about captured Horde being enslaved.

[TheRevenantHero]

The relevance is the answer to @qwerty123456's rhetorical question was that Varian and Valeera were both slaves and gladiators for the Horde. Thrall did exactly zip to end slavery in the Horde, and exactly nowhere is it shown that the Horde has any problems with it. The Horde thus has no moral high ground whatsoever to whine about captured Horde being enslaved.

Ah yes because two wrongs make a right

[Feanoro]

Ok, but the orcs were corrupted and being controlled by the demons right? So hanging the invasion above their heads while they barely had control over it is incredibly unfair.

And the Alliance back then knew this how? Right, they didn't know it. What they knew was these raging, bloodthirsty, giant green guys had just massacred their way up an entire continent and were barely stopped. They did not have the benefit of being an omniscient player.

[Minikin]

....Relevance?

- - - Updated - - -



Already addressed this.

So rehabilitate them after they destroyed stormwind, burnt quelthalas, killed llane, and nearly took lordearon.

It's an interesting place these forums where you can find both:
1. Ugh alliance always goody two shoes
2. Ugh alliance doesn't do enough

[Feanoro]

Ah yes because two wrongs make a right

For someone who hates words put in mouths, you sure do like doing it to others.

Keep dodging, denying, and pretending the Horde is completely innocent though if it helps you sleep.

[Sluvs]

The relevance is the answer to @qwerty123456's rhetorical question was that Varian and Valeera were both slaves and gladiators for the Horde. Thrall did exactly zip to end slavery in the Horde, and exactly nowhere is it shown that the Horde has any problems with it. The Horde thus has no moral high ground whatsoever to whine about captured Horde being enslaved.

It happened after the internment camps.

Also, whether or not the enslavement of Varyan was cruel (it was) has no bearing in the internment camps

[TheRevenantHero]

For someone who hates words put in mouths, you sure do like doing it to others.

Keep dodging, denying, and pretending the Horde is completely innocent though if it helps you sleep.

I bet you're the kind of person who thinks if Jaina had destroyed Orgrimmar that it would have been totally fine because of what happened to Theramore.

[Sluvs]

And the Alliance back then knew this how? Right, they didn't know it. What they knew was these raging, bloodthirsty, giant green guys had just massacred their way up an entire continent and were barely stopped. They did not have the benefit of being an omniscient player.

Ignorance does not excuse their actions and does not justify their treatments. While they might not have been omniscient, they had 15 years to go after the info, they choose not to. We are not talking here about a mishap at work because you did not know something. We are talking about the enslavement of a race for 15 years, they should have known. And that is not even the point, even if the orc were monsters, they should have sought another way. Not simply enslave them and enforce more suffering upon them.

[Minikin]

So basically you're saying it's totally ok for the Alliance to keep slaves because the only alternative is murder. Ok.

Yes I'm sure the orcs can pull the "we were treated unfairly" card after paving a road with draenei bones to a portal which they took to....plant trees and bring peace...wait no....kill more ppl. But oh man how dare someone put them in cages after that!

In the end regardless of how they were treated it is now canon lore that not one but two warchiefs have started harmful wars and had to be taken down while the alliance high King has done zero of that. So even if the alliance does bad shit it's too late Blizzard has already bashed horde so hard that if today anduin goes and sets fire to thunderbluff for a BBQ extravaganza it would be the alliance "getting even" rather than "going too far".