Sentenced to life imprisonment for trying to steal hedge clippers.

[Doctor Amadeus]

So now gang members get free bread and Netflix AND my wallet and car? Why should I bother with my shitty job I'm gonna join a gang tomorrow then

Well then why don't you just make the same choices then you can get the same thing? Answer: Because what you just said is nonsense, that isn't at all what prison is. Because while you gloss over the other parts let me clue you in.

Prison means being locked in a cage 24/7, Prison means not being able to have to option to visit relatives or loved ones even when they are sick or dying. Prison means missing out on the lives of those you care about while they fade away and so do you.

Oh but yes, you get Bread, and Netflix, and temporarily Wallet, and a Car

- - - Updated - - -

If you say so

They haven't and cars can be insured, your cards in your wallet replaced, the people that stole that, they are headed towards a future that has no future.

[wunksta]

Well when you get 0 help from police. Government. And are expected to just have insurance to cover it. Its really fucking annoying no one gives a shit. So when people talk about theft as some petty crime that shouldn't be another bonus for the prisons quarterly profits I like to point out the other side of the argument. That there are victims and you don't know how it effects that victim. I struggle with anxiety and Im getting emails from banks telling me they need info for account creation when whoever stole the car/wallet they have my drivers licence. It's stressful and you get no help unless you have a good insurance company. So prisons win. Insurance companies win
And the victim always loses

I don't think anyone is saying that the criminal shouldn't be punished or that victims don't deserve restitution. The issue most people have here is the penalty doesn't fit the crime and only creates a financial burden for the rest of society.

[Egomaniac]

And what help do you give thieves exactly?

Give them free stuff so they don't need to steal?

Some people steal for fun/the rush. I doubt those shears were life and death for him. Probably did it because he was bored

And once again, that doesn't require locking him up for life.

[RobertoCarlos]

Well then why don't you just make the same choices then you can get the same thing? Answer: Because what you just said is nonsense, that isn't at all what prison is. Because while you gloss over the other parts let me clue you in.

Prison means being locked in a cage 24/7, Prison means not being able to have to option to visit relatives or loved ones even when they are sick or dying. Prison means missing out on the lives of those you care about while they fade away and so do you.

Oh but yes, you get Bread, and Netflix, and temporarily Wallet, and a Car

- - - Updated - - -



They haven't and cars can be insured, your cards in your wallet replaced, the people that stole that, they are headed towards a future that has no future.

So screw my anxiety and thoughts of suicide because post covid in a job I don't like wasn't enough now I have to deal with a massive work shop bill and general feeling of people are selfish pieces of shit. You don't know Jack bro

[Hellobolis]

Well when you get 0 help from police. Government. And are expected to just have insurance to cover it.

if it was a crack addict he probably just ditched the car somewhere, might wanna check impound lots.

if it was a actual car thief, you'd never get the car back and even if you got a conviction the damages would never be recoverable.

insurance is just mandatory here, mostly so there is a decent guarantee whoever does you foul can actually pay up.

[wunksta]

So screw my anxiety and thoughts of suicide because post covid in a job I don't like wasn't enough now I have to deal with a massive work shop bill and general feeling of people are selfish pieces of shit. You don't know Jack bro

Honestly it sounds like misplaced anger. Terrible things happen, and that crack addict is still living in a terrible situation. I get being angry about the theft but even that crack addict doesn't deserve life in prison for that theft.

[Doctor Amadeus]

So screw my anxiety and thoughts of suicide because post covid in a job I don't like wasn't enough now I have to deal with a massive work shop bill and general feeling of people are selfish pieces of shit. You don't know Jack bro

Anxiety is something you are likely to have with or without someone stealing your wallet or car. And again stealing is NEVER OK! It isn't ok to steal from you even if I disagree with you or whatever anyone may feel. That isn't the point here. You brought that up as an example.

The problem is this guy in the OP isn't the one that did anything to you, and we can't punish him for something he didn't do, we go by the evidence and what we know. He stealing yes, but I am saying we should look into why.

Just like you getting your stuff taken, obviously it is a lot more than just a car and your wallet.

However question is not whether we can't have compassion for both.


The question I am suggesting is that if the guy stealing is a disorder, then stopping that has to be done a certain way, PRISON isn't going to fix that if it isn't a choice. Sure we can throw him in prison for life, but then other people like YOU and ME and everyone else has to pay for his NETFLIX, and whatever the hell else.

[Edge-]

Well when you get 0 help from police. Government. And are expected to just have insurance to cover it. Its really fucking annoying no one gives a shit.

So be mad at the cops then for not doing their jobs?

So when people talk about theft as some petty crime

We're not. We're talking about petty theft like attempting to steal a hedge trimmer as petty crime.

That there are victims and you don't know how it effects that victim.

So track down the guy whose hedge trimmer was almost stolen and ask him if he thinks that life in prison is a fitting consequence.

I struggle with anxiety and Im getting emails from banks telling me they need info for account creation when whoever stole the car/wallet they have my drivers licence. It's stressful and you get no help unless you have a good insurance company. So prisons win. Insurance companies win

Again, your issue is with police and your insurance company, then.

And the victim always loses

And nobody is saying that the victim should lose.

Good lord dude, we're here with you and aren't gonna dismiss you as a victim. But like, what this guy did and what happened to you are vastly different.

[Easo]

So those who support this punishment, what do you want? Crime prevention? Punishment? Rehabilitation (yeah fucking right, lol)? What is that you want?

[Egomaniac]

Well when you get 0 help from police. Government. And are expected to just have insurance to cover it. Its really fucking annoying no one gives a shit. So when people talk about theft as some petty crime that shouldn't be another bonus for the prisons quarterly profits I like to point out the other side of the argument. That there are victims and you don't know how it effects that victim. I struggle with anxiety and Im getting emails from banks telling me they need info for account creation when whoever stole the car/wallet they have my drivers licence. It's stressful and you get no help unless you have a good insurance company. So prisons win. Insurance companies win
And the victim always loses

Sounds like none of your problems would be solved by sending the thief to prison for the rest of his life.

[zhero]

https://www.unodc.org/documents/data...nd_Justice.pdf

Page 41



Older data but like...no? US is in the highest quartile along with a handful of countries with better social safety nets in Europe like Spain and Great Britain. Most of the EU countries are well below the US with France at the bottom end, Denmark, Finland, Greece, and Norway in the second lowest group, and Austria, Canada, Germany, Netherlands, Sweden and Switzerland being below the US in the second highest group.

the lowest rates appear to be regions where they used to chop thieves hands off. lets bring that back.

[Doctor Amadeus]

So those who support this punishment, what do you want? Crime prevention? Punishment? Rehabilitation (yeah fucking right, lol)? What is that you want?

Personally all of the above, and if their is a priority, Punishment, Crime Prevention then Rehabilitation. I am not against Robert Carlos here totally, I have no love for criminal pieces of shit who do this kind of shit, and while I do recognize some have issues and need, I am also not naive that some do this by choice because they deserve to be in prison and monitored 24/7, and if our justice system could be 100% correct in all cases, I would advocate for a lot harsher punishment than prison.

Yeah nothing funny or cute about some piece of shit who actively chooses to steal other peoples shit, and ruin things for other people who work for them

- - - Updated - - -

the lowest rates appear to be regions where they used to chop thieves hands off. lets bring that back.

Yeah, those regions are also notorious for their own crimes, like those against humanity that force people into extreme situations. When you have a justice system not about justice, and ONLY about punishment, you get the kind of shit where people are cutting off the limbs of suspected criminals rather than those guilty, they are also most of the time responsible for creating the situation in the first place, that pushes the guilty into things like stealing fucking BREAD!

[Santti]

the lowest rates appear to be regions where they used to chop thieves hands off. lets bring that back.

I'd imagine it's more to do with questionable reporting than harsh punishments. If harsh punishments would work as a deterrent (it doesn't), US wouldn't be nearly as high as it is right now.

[RobertoCarlos]

if it was a crack addict he probably just ditched the car somewhere, might wanna check impound lots.

if it was a actual car thief, you'd never get the car back and even if you got a conviction the damages would never be recoverable.

insurance is just mandatory here, mostly so there is a decent guarantee whoever does you foul can actually pay up.

Yeah I recovered the car. He ditched it down a street not far from where he stole it. He literally stole it to go get a feed from Mcdonalds and brought smokes from a gas station.

He broke a window and damaged the ignition barrel which means all the ignition work and locks need to be changed which isn't cheap. And because I was house sitting for a friend and the car wasn't in a garage my insurance won't cover it.

Cops did nothing other than finger print it then sent me a letter a week later saying they found nothing and wished me luck basically.

Now if I could go out and be batman and try find who done it. Which is a good chance it was the gang house across the road and one of them got the munchies after hitting the crack pipe on a Sunday at midnight (the gas station had cameras and the smokes brought on the stolen card time stamped him) if I go could over there and ask around suddenly I'm the criminal.

Blah

[Orange Joe]

The justice system isn't about retribution, it's about putting away people who can't live in a society. And prisons have plenty of rehabilitation programs, including the Parole System. The problem is that people fake rehabilitation, and then pick up their old tricks as soon as they're out of prison.

Most usual they have criminal friends and what not, that offer them "jobs" as soon as they're out of prison, and they don't turn down these jobs and then they end-up in prison again. It's a life style that they have grown into, that's not easy to change.

If this were true every prison sentence would be life without parole. So considering the fact people can get as low as 1-2 years in prison you are wrong.

[Easo]

The justice system isn't about retribution, it's about putting away people who can't live in a society. And prisons have plenty of rehabilitation programs, including the Parole System. The problem is that people fake rehabilitation, and then pick up their old tricks as soon as they're out of prison.

Most usual they have criminal friends and what not, that offer them "jobs" as soon as they're out of prison, and they don't turn down these jobs and then they end-up in prison again. It's a life style that they have grown into, that's not easy to change.

You are banned, but still:

1. USA laughs at your statement.
2. Norway laughs at your statement as well.

Each, however, laughs due to different reasons...

[wunksta]

This is the kind of justice system we have

Corrupt ‘Kids for Cash’ judge ruined more than 2,000 lives
https://nypost.com/2014/02/23/film-d...ayoff-scandal/

[Mihalik]

This is the kind of justice system we have

Clearly those kids are irredeemable career criminals who must be excised from society. /s

[Egomaniac]

Yeah I recovered the car. He ditched it down a street not far from where he stole it. He literally stole it to go get a feed from Mcdonalds and brought smokes from a gas station.

He broke a window and damaged the ignition barrel which means all the ignition work and locks need to be changed which isn't cheap. And because I was house sitting for a friend and the car wasn't in a garage my insurance won't cover it.

Cops did nothing other than finger print it then sent me a letter a week later saying they found nothing and wished me luck basically.

Now if I could go out and be batman and try find who done it. Which is a good chance it was the gang house across the road and one of them got the munchies after hitting the crack pipe on a Sunday at midnight (the gas station had cameras and the smokes brought on the stolen card time stamped him) if I go could over there and ask around suddenly I'm the criminal.

Blah

Asking around wouldn't make you a criminal. Sounds like you might be planning on doing more than "asking" though.

All of this is very off-topic though...has nothing to do with a man being sentenced to life in prison for attempting to steal garden shears.

[silveth]

While I do find it a bit excessive, I mean its a 3 strike rule and this was his 5th strike?

At a point, do we not have to look at the individual and their choices. I mean I am pretty sure you now that if you have already committed 4 crimes over the decades in a 3 strike rule state, that maybe it would be a good thing to not to push your luck for number 5.

Now I don't like the 3 strike rules at all and would like to see them removed. Not all crimes are equal. I understand it for certain things but this is a case that shows it can't just be applied across the board.

Sometimes though you have to wonder what exactly made him think that after his others crimes, a 10 year prison sentence, and basically being on his last chance, hedge clippers would be a something worth tempting fate for.