"El Psy Kongroo!" Hearthstone Moderator
Ok, take a moment and read that again.
"Remember"... "now we're here" (read the title of the thread). I am saying how we went from one extreme to the other.
Btw, what you are saying is not correct. You cannot gear is 470+ in a week. It's 465 that drops from dungeons. Weekly chest gives 475.
Mythic raiding drops 475-485 and you can get several pieces of gear per week, you can also trade with other people. That doesn't happen with the mythic+ chest.
So, are we done here? Give it some time to breathe with the new ilvl design. Dungeons are only good at the beginning of a new tier if you raid mythic.
Right. I'm saying WoW is no longer raid or die because of the fact that Mythic+ can get you up to or near Mythic raiding ilvl. That was NEVER the case during BC, WotlK, Cata or MoP. You literally had raiding as end game content and that was it.
Also oops, 465+, excuse my being 5 ilvls off and eventually hit full 475 from the chest kekw
Yes, we aren't disagreeing here.
The eventual 475 part will take months though. ^^ it's a completely random drop. For example, i got pants 3 weeks in a row on my monk just recently. The weekly chest is not reliable cause then there's also the question of secondary stats. I have many 475 items that are not beter than 465 ones for a given spec.
I know what you mean, but i think your rant is one patch too late. They made changes and it looks fine currently.
Last edited by Swnem; 2020-08-08 at 09:30 PM.
I will give you 2 free lessons here.
1. Even if your assertion was correct and gear lost 15 ilvls per raid (I will explain why this is wrong) there is only 45 ilvls lost between 8.0 and 8.3. You don't count the first raid. Now pay attention here. This is where the magic happens.
2. Heroic is the highest ilvl because mythic is gone. Uldir is 370. BfD is 400. Azshara is 430. Nzoth is 460+. Do you see that? Do you see how it is 15 ilvl less than it is today?
I don't need a refund on my math education because it is free when you are 7. I used basic arithmetic to solve the problem.
- - - Updated - - -
As I have demonstrated the ilvl bloat has nothing to do with 4 difficulties. Having 3 difficulties would reduce it by 15 in a whole expansion. Assuming raiding starts from normal, reducing the gap between difficulties would only drop the highest obtainable ilvl by 20. Go on. Get a piece of paper and work it out. We have time.
To reduce "bloat" we need to reduce the difference between raids. If we reduced it to 25 from 30 we would lose 15 ilvls in bfa. If we reduced it to 15 from 30 we reduce it by 45. This is at 4 difficulties.
Not only have I proven that getting rid of difficulties is not that answer to bloat, I have proven that reducing the difference between difficulties is also wrong.
Before this thread I use to think that ilvls didn't need any more squishing because it's only arithmetic using 3 figures. In most countries you learn this by the age of 7. Boy was I wrong.
honestly i feel im getting punked here...are you punking me?
mythic is gone
uldir starts at 355 goes to 370,bfd no longer starts at 385,now it starts at 370! and it ends with 385,next up azshara no longer starts at 415,now it starts at 400,and then nzoth raid starts at 400 and only goes up to 415 and nzoth himself is 420
again....math refund unless your just trolling
You're not wrong, I think it is their insistence on the "play the patch" mentality that leads to these massive jumps.
Mythic from the previous tier is not supposed to yield equivalent gear for heroics raiders of the current tier, thus Blizzard bumps Ilvl up by 30 every tier, to ensure Mythic from the previous tier does not become a source of gear for heroic raiders.
Multiple layers of difficulty contribute to this factor due to the aforementioned mentality, but the easier solution at hand would be to lower the amount you're bumping the Ilvl each tier.
But it would make the previous tiers for the lower difficulties even more attractive, something i assume that Blizzard really doesn't want.
Your Math is off.
Blizzard throws +30 Ilvl on items every tier, assuming the same difficulty.
If Uldir starts at 355, then BoD will start at 385.
You assume that the corresponding difficulty only adds +15 Ilvl, moving from one tier to another, yet right now Blizzard throws +30 Ilvl on it, not 15.
The reason it's called a theme park is because there are different ways to progress in different kinds of content.
Raiding is meaningless in one sense: next expansion you'll replace everything with quest gear before starting over again. It's not for me any longer but for those that get into it, that's great.
"...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."
It doesn't add up, as explained.
The reason is that they add +30 Ilvl onto items of the same difficulty each tier, not additional difficulties.
That's the issue.
By removing a single difficulty, you just cut down +15 Ilvl in total.
If you want to cut down on power, you should be talking the reduction of this this jump first and foremost, not the removal of a difficulty.
We could have one difficulty and it would still be fucked up when Blizzard throw +30 Ilvl onto each tier.
Thing is, Blizzard doesn't want people to do "old content" for gear, that's the reason why there is a massive gap.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
No, it is not an extra 15 PER TIER. It is 15 ONCE at the start of the expansion, when the extra difficulty level inserts an extra 15 ilvls into the stack. After that, at each tier, each of the elements of this stack goes up by 30 ilvls. Removing one difficulty from the stack reduces the size of that stack at the start, taking out a 15 ilvl step, but doesn't change the +30 ilvl increment from one tier to the next.
"There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
"The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
"Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"
People complained, blizzard caved in or came up with a solution. This is why we are in this sorry mess! Wotlk the Height of the game had none of this crap. You pvped or you raided, or did whatever else floated your boat, the end. When i look at retail now I feel totally disconnected by the many options, way too many systems and none of them have the appeal anymore. Perhaps ashes of creation can bring back the mmorpg feeling ? I dont know but I sure long for one!
You both are arguing essentially the same thing. The perspective is just different. Each tier will still be 15 item levels lower because the starting point was 15 item levels lower. 25+30 is different then 10+30. By 15 item levels. If you have 4 tiers in the old and new expansion then the item level bloat will be off by 60 item levels. So you lost 15 per tier because the start lost 15.
The 30 item level increment also does not need to remain the same if a difficulty is removed. Because the +30 is tied to the item level increase required for four difficulties. So if that number is changed the item level bloat could decrease further.
"Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."
I agree with OP that the gear progression of M+ is bad for raiding.
It makes no sense to have M+ drop infinite (problem 1) gear which through TF potentially is superior to raid loot (problem 2). Whereas in raids the drops are finite (weekly). Why ever bother with raids with such a lucrative source of gear which also is nowhere near as time consuming as mythic raids.
Although I must say that these are issues that decrease raid experience. I would rather have Blizzard focus on other things that are way more important. Like stopping with seasonal borrowed powers and start making classes feel whole again, stop the insane seasonal grinds and stop funneling/forcing people to play a single spec.
Then again I already settled with Classic. AQ patch just started a week ago and the war event is about to start at any moment on my realm. Been looking forward to this for so long. Can't remember when I last was this hyped on retail....
But it is.Look at Mythic+ that came directly from diablo 3.if you think gear isn't raiders primary motivation then you have a very odd view on wow as a whole and the majority of the player base.When you get that last piece of tier that completes the set or that weapon that has eluded you for months finally drop and you win the roll it is a great moment or you finish a long chain of quests and challenges and you can wield a powerful legendary weapon.Oh wait i forget i am thinking of the old wow when gear meant something....Now with this Mythic+ shit you can just do it over and over and over and over till you get what you want and no one else can challenge you to a roll to win the item.Sounds just like another game from blizzard,i just can't put my finger on it... oHHHH its just like Diablo 3 This is one of the reasons why the game is a shell of its former self.