Horde Reparations

[Minikin]

No offense man, but you are playing fast and loose with the lore.

Every argument that you are making is a little bit of a stretch at best, and downright wrong at worst.

Orcs did not have free will, this is not open for debate.
Garrosh tricked Grom.

There is no wriggling out of those 2 things.

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Well, I would not bring Yrel when there are other better examples. But what is your point? Because you choose the last 3 words of my post and ignored everything else.

No offense but you need to re read on:
Garona
The invasion of shattrath and draenei women

[Sluvs]

No offense but you need to re read on:
Garona
The invasion of shattrath and draenei women

I was not referring to rapes when I said that.

[cparle87]

Ok, three things:
• One: no, the orcs weren't in internment camps "for generations". For fuck's sake, the fel Horde killed Varian's parents when they invaded.
• Two: the alternative to internment camps was extermination of the orcs. Because it would be stupid to let the invaders that just massacred your villages and razed your land simply for "lok'tar ogar" live and risk another "lok'tar ogar" party.
• Three: the orcs were put into internment camps because they invaded Azeroth and murdered and pillaged every single settlement they came across.

One, a mind controlled Legion agent killed Varian's father when she didn't want to, his mother was killed by fellow humans.
Two, the orcs had already fallen into a lethargy and were barely capable of feeding themselves, let alone warrior.
Three, there is such a thing as mind control in this universe. But that's the Alliance's problem. Forsaken killed innocent people while mindless Scourge, kill them all. Orcs killed innocent people while under demonic bloodlust, never trust them again. Weird that the Horde can understand that actions performed under diminished capacity aren't what the being is really like, but the Alliance can't.

[Dancaris]

Alliance: Starts war, kills Zandalari, destroy their fleet, tortures innocents. "We want reparations for winning a war!"

[Syegfryed]

It's implied because the game is rated T for teen. And there is an Alt Garona so how do you explain that? You seriously think that just a few orcs discovered rape 20 seconds after the legion got to em even though they have been raped by Ogres?

just because they know what it means don't mean the entire race did, you are extrapolating to win an argument, Garona was "created" by the shadow council doing the experiments, you are "implying" the entire race of orcs raped all the draeneis they could caught, in both timelines, that is just asinine.

I don't even know what you are trying to say.

you don't have any canon confirmation of what you are trying to say, simple.

The AU orcs were stopped by us. Had we not saved the shadowmoon exiles, Draenei, and Frostwolves among others things would have been entirely different. And no I didn't make any false comparisons.

right, and?

You keep saying I am being emotional and yet you are the one unable to admit to the shit the orcs did on their own free will.

except im not "unable to admit", and yes, no one will admit the nonsenses you are throwing here.

The moment the orcs drank the demon blood they lost free will, end.

LOL Draenei that joined the legion are now demons.

they were not, majority of the draenei race joined the legion, by their own free will, without being tricked.

If you claim the orcs drinking demon blood negates their responsibility then you gotta do the same for the Eredar.

but no one said it negated their responsability, you are making up things, but unlike orcs, eredar were not tricked, eredar were not robbed from their free will.

Also the Draenei are led by a leader who was given a vision by someone else.

pointless.

So if you keep trying to remove all responsibility from Grom and the AU orcs then you gotta do the same for the Draenei.

again, who is doing that? you are attacking argumments no one ever made here

And yet even when you do the Draenei didn't go around killing people like the orcs did.

they sure did, don't try to ignore how the eredar who joined the legion are the same race from the draenei, just because you change your name you don't get a free pass.

if you want to acusse every single orc for all the race did, in both timelines, don't be hypocrite with the draeneis

Sure they may be indirectly responsible for a bunch of deaths because they fled to a planet with life on it but atleast they didn't start slaughtering people and shit.

ho ho, so, just because they did indirectly doomed lots of other wolrds is fine, because they were in need.

And considering that the burning legion was going to destroy all life in the universe its probably better for the orcs that the Draenei got their first which eventually led them being corrupted and brought to Azeroth where they have been able to advance technologically, spiritually, socially, magically. They would have been completely wiped out had the Burning legion weren't fucking around with the Draenei and Azeroth.

then we should not blame the orcs for attacking the draenei and the alliance though, it probabbly for the better that the orcs attacked then, since made the draeneis run to azeroth and help the alliance, the horde also helped the humans not killing themselves

withou the orcs? wush the burning legion would fuck everything else am i right?

Also if you are talking about the lightbound we have no idea how true the words of the Mag'har are as you can clearly see they are still destroying the planet with iron horde tech

i was not even talking about the lightbound, but if the mask serves, yes, we have a ida of what they were doing and no, they were not "destroying the planent with iron horde tech"

plus the lightbound are mindcontrolled which according to you absolves them of all responsibility.

mindcontrolled? no, influenced? yes, tricked? i doubt, but time will tell

Not to mention the fact that the mag'har leader Sided fully with Sylvanas even after 99% of the horde had realized she was a monster.

that is a compeltely out of place argumment, you are comapring apples to potatoes

And if you are talking about the 4 Draenei that joined the legion thats not even remotely close to the number of orcs that signed up for the Iron Horde and all the death and destruction that comes along with it.

4 draenei? you mean the sargerei were just 4? what a joke.

just for a quickly summary

1 - most of the draenei joined winllingly the legion and spend a millenia destroying other worlds, including hunting their own people.
2- the ones fleeing also doomed lots of other planets in their running, leaving the native races to their own armagedon
3- the ones who were running even joined the LEgion later in WOD, and after that became a crusade of zealots.

comparing the orcs who

1 - lived thousands of years in peace, in their own place and with each other, until the Draenei brought the Legion with then
2 - Said Legion seizing the ocs a primitive and naive race used their ignorance and religion to trick then with war(something Garrosh did in WOD) and ultimaely robbed then from their free will.

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So you think people with severe cognitive disorders are the same as heroine junkies?

The hot takes keep on coming

if you put drugs on someone and they do shit, because the consequences of that said drug, you are going to put the ones who were drugged at fault?

[Shaetha]

The point is about optics. Maybe you should try to understand things before spouting off like a severed artery.

Maybe you should not spout things that are wrong like they're right and then defend your wrongness. He was a dungeon boss. You said he wasn't. You were at best ignorant and at worst straight up lying. It's really not hard to make an argument without saying things that aren't true.

[Thage]

So you think people with severe cognitive disorders are the same as heroine junkies?

The hot takes keep on coming

I'm saying that there comes a point where someone can't be responsible for what they're doing because they're not cognizant of what they're doing. Someone tripping ass on a large dose of acid isn't able to process their actions in such a way that you can reasonably hold them responsible for what happens while they're on a trip. This is part of why the 'war on drugs' is bullshit and why public opinion is beginning to shift against it, because all it really accomplishes is sending people who don't meet the requirement of being legally responsible for their actions to prison instead of to rehab or a psychiatric facility where they can get help and clean up (at least when they're not sending people to prison for multiyear sentences over a dimebag of pot).

Feel free to twist my words, but they're only 'the same' insofar as both individuals are not considered capable of taking responsibility for their actions.

[Venziir]

Alliance: Starts war, kills Zandalari, destroy their fleet, tortures innocents. "We want reparations for winning a war!"

The Horde started the Fourth War; not the Alliance. The war was started by the burning of Teldrassil.

[Dancaris]

The Horde started the Fourth War; not the Alliance. The war was started by the burning of Teldrassil.

Oh, my sweet summer child. 4th war starts when Alliance kills goblins near the Sword. Then imprison Talanji and Zul for nothing.

[Venziir]

Oh, my sweet summer child. 4th war starts when Alliance kills goblins near the Sword. Then imprison Talanji and Zul for nothing.

Cute, gotta love the combination of condescending and wrong....

[Dancaris]

Cute, gotta love the combination of condescending and wrong....

And you ignore Stormheim? And what, ignore my statement? Sweet.

[Venziir]

And you ignore Stormheim? And what, ignore my statement? Sweet.

Think what you will, the official start of the Fourth War was the War of The Thorns - that's a fact delivered by Blizzard themselves.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Oh, my sweet summer child. 4th war starts when Alliance kills goblins near the Sword. Then imprison Talanji and Zul for nothing.

You should really get your timeline of events in order before posting things like this.

[Varodoc]

Oh, my sweet summer child. 4th war starts when Alliance kills goblins near the Sword. Then imprison Talanji and Zul for nothing.

No. In an interview with Windows Central, Danuser specifically mentioned that Sylvanas, just like Garrosh before her, started the war with the War of Thorns.

To demonstrate that there is a cycle, we created a story structure for Sylvanas that, on the surface, echoed many broad strokes of the road Garrosh took. A warchief promoted under questionable circumstances. A brutal act of aggression that instigated conflict. Distrust among the inner circle that led to an uprising. These parallels were intentional. But it's within the nuance that we sought to show the story grow and change.

[Dancaris]

Think what you will, the official start of the Fourth War was the War of The Thorns - that's a fact delivered by Blizzard themselves.

I think you should deliver proofs of that. And if you look at wowpedia - Stormheim war prelude for war. Calia in Arathi war prelude, killing goblins near the sword was prelude. And time of imprisonment of Talanji and Zul is nowhere explained.
Yes, Horde burned this new tree (20 years old, remember?). But do not expose it so Horde was first to action.

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No. In an interview with Windows Central, Danuser specifically mentioned that Sylvanas, just like Garrosh before her, started the war with the War of Thorns.

And what instigated mistrust? Genn, Jaina and Anduin in Arathi.

And for clarifying things. I am not Sylvanas fan.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I think you should deliver proofs of that. And if you look at wowpedia - Stormheim war prelude for war. Calia in Arathi war prelude, killing goblins near the sword was prelude. And time of imprisonment of Talanji and Zul is nowhere explained.
Yes, Horde burned this new tree (20 years old, remember?). But do not expose it so Horde was first to action.

The proof is there. You are saying these "prelude" acts to the war are when the war began?


So which is it?


The war began in Stormheim or was that a prelude to it?


The war began after 'The Gathering' or was it also just a prelude to it?


Killing goblins near Sargeras' sword in Silithus began the war... or, and I see a trend forming here, was it just a prelude to it?


Just to be clear: your "proofs" are not "proofs" at all.

[Varodoc]

I think you should deliver proofs of that. And if you look at wowpedia - Stormheim war prelude for war. Calia in Arathi war prelude, killing goblins near the sword was prelude. And time of imprisonment of Talanji and Zul is nowhere explained.
Yes, Horde burned this new tree (20 years old, remember?). But do not expose it so Horde was first to action.

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And what instigated mistrust? Genn, Jaina and Anduin in Arathi.

And for clarifying things. I am not Sylvanas fan.

Why not go even more back and mention how Sylvanas has always been a bitch towards the Alliance?

I don't care if you're not a Sylvanas fan, you're still wrong and are going completely against Blizzard's story.

[Ardenaso]

Think what you will, the official start of the Fourth War was the War of The Thorns - that's a fact delivered by Blizzard themselves.

I thought it was when Varian declared war in the Undercity

[Dancaris]

The proof is there. You are saying these "prelude" acts to the war are when the war began?


So which is it?


The war began in Stormheim or was that a prelude to it?


The war began after 'The Gathering' or was it also just a prelude to it?


Killing goblins near Sargeras' sword in Silithus began the war... or, and I see a trend forming here, was it just a prelude to it?


Just to be clear: your "proofs" are not "proofs" at all.

You say that Alliance has no blood on their hands? All that actions provoke burning. Or you deny that?

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I thought it was when Varian declared war in the Undercity

That wasn't the declaration of the 'Fourth War' between the Alliance and Horde. That is apart of what is known now as the 'Alliance-Horde War' that goes through Cataclysm up to the end of Mists of Pandaria.


Although, I think one could argue that Garrosh's defeat didn't technically end the 'Alliance-Horde War' at all.