Is "Renown" here to stay?

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I mean we haven't gotten new spells right out for awhile now.
We are getting new borrowed powers though like BFA and legion.

Considering how many of those "new" borrowed powers are just literally Legion legendaries (with some customization added), it really makes it hard to view them restoring something they took away as being praiseworthy. I'm still waiting for Divine Intervention to be put back in the game, and they still aren't returning it.

[FelPlague]

Considering how many of those "new" borrowed powers are just literally Legion legendaries (with some customization added), it really makes it hard to view them restoring something they took away as being praiseworthy. I'm still waiting for Divine Intervention to be put back in the game, and they still aren't returning it.

Got examples?
Cause i cant think of a single one of these that is just a legion legendary...

Do you mean the legendaries?
We are talking the covenent abilities.

[Schattenlied]

I love how you seem to have the memory of a gold fish as you keep forgetting context. Sideways here's new abilities, you say only one class gets them. I point out all 12 classes get them. You then say "no these are only borrowed power" yes. You are right. But you said "only 1 of 12 classes is getting these" which is a bald faced lie.

I have 0 interest in DH and as such do not know the names of their new Shadowlands baseline or Covenant abilities, as such I wrongly assumed that because we're having a discussion about baseline class abilities, that Lindon was listing off baseline class abilities, not borrowed powers.

[Schattenlied]

Build-your-own trees would take care of that. The system itself can stay forever while blizzard changes and evolves the gems in the form of abilities that you can socket into the tree.

I... suppose? But at that point just give us more talent rows, or columns for that matter... If they don't want us to have too many talent rows they can just expand them sideways, instead of 3 options on every row give us 4 or 5.

- - - Updated - - -

That will feel awful though

Will it feel more awful than losing our borrowed powers every expansion?

Level is just an arbitrary number, it means absolutely nothing, whereas when you lose borrowed powers you actually lose gameplay and throughput.

Personally it would not feel awful to me, and I'd wager most people would forget it even happened after a few weeks just like they did with the Ilvl squish, if they ever cared at all.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Got examples?
Cause i cant think of a single one of these that is just a legion legendary...

Do you mean the legendaries?
We are talking the covenent abilities.

I was specifically talking about legendaries, I interpreted your second sentence to include legendary powers as part of the "borrowed powers". I do think the implementation is significantly better than the acquisition of them in Legion, however some of them are just the legendary power brought back from Legion.

I don't remember all of them off-hand, but here is a list of some of them for druids.
https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/news...ws-post-317145
Edit: And rogues.
https://shadowlands.wowhead.com/news...sassin-returns

I would prefer to move a bit away from such borrowed powers and look more into permanently integrating them into your character. I'd rather every expansion come with a new talent tier rather than a new borrowed power system (Legendaries+Artifacts for Legion, Azerite Traits+Essences+Corruption for BFA, and now Covenants+Soulbinds for Shadowlands). I don't really like any of those systems, but my dislike for each system is directed at a specific aspect of implementation of each system.

A quick example is Artifacts in Legion, I actually loved the feel of them, but I had a major issue with the fact that each weapon was separate in the AP grind. Trying to play 20+ specs was an unbearable grind when it came to AP (yeah, playing that many specs over the course of an expansion was pretty normal for me, I'd usually only actively play 3-7 specs at a time, but even trying to keep as few as 3-5 artifact weapons at decent levels of AP was extremely time-consuming and boring).

[Jamie081]

Considering how many of those "new" borrowed powers are just literally Legion legendaries (with some customization added), it really makes it hard to view them restoring something they took away as being praiseworthy. I'm still waiting for Divine Intervention to be put back in the game, and they still aren't returning it.

I wouldn't praise them for bringing back Divine Intervention either. It was a niche ability and spellbook fluff at best.

[Djaye]

I think renown is going to be SL specific. I think though that 60 will always be the new level cap. Each new expansion we get squished to 50 and level to 60 again. Otherwise the same issues arise

i see this being the new expansion model. and it makes no sense. they might as well just scrap the levels after 60, keep you at 60 and just have your new progression be around a new leveling/power system

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I wouldn't praise them for bringing back Divine Intervention either. It was a niche ability and spellbook fluff at best.

Oh yeah, I wasn't saying that would be praiseworthy either, I just want it back because it was a fun spell that let me save 1 other raid member from food+repair costs for a wipe while also sparing my own repair costs for that wipe. It was all the social interaction that occurred as a result of DI that I enjoyed the most.

[Xath]

DH are one class out of 12 that are getting new baseline spells, and they are a special case due to not having anything to get unrpuned.

Fun thing is none of those are baseline and require a significant grind to change between them. If they were baseline this expansion would be much more exciting.

[Akka]

What is with people and suggesting to have no more leveling/levels? Do they not understand this is a MMO?? It's bad enough we're reset to level 60 but to be stuck there is just horrible.

The game includes level scaling. Levels are already completely pointless.

[Djaye]

I wouldn't praise them for bringing back Divine Intervention either. It was a niche ability and spellbook fluff at best.

Wipe prevention is not a niche ability.

[MrLachyG]

i see this being the new expansion model. and it makes no sense. they might as well just scrap the levels after 60, keep you at 60 and just have your new progression be around a new leveling/power system

Would be a huge change if they did that. Dunno if they’re brave enough to do that. Plus would kinda make the levelling revamp a bit redundant post SL

[RemasteredClassic]

Some call it rep 2.0, but renown reminds me of legion honor PvP progression prestige levels.

[RemasteredClassic]

Would be a huge change if they did that. Dunno if they’re brave enough to do that. Plus would kinda make the levelling revamp a bit redundant post SL

Would be nice to always start new players on the previous expansion and have them go from 1 to 60 in it. The latest expansion should not be XP based, but Renown based progression only.

This way, alts already at 60 can keep their level and focus on Renown progression. This would also help with farming older raids on alts via a solo queue for ALL previous expansion raids conveniently located somewhere on the UI.

This wouldn't render anything redundant since it's a modular design where you can always add expansions as Timewalking 1 to 60 leveling content for alts and keep the latest expansion strictly as a non-XP, Renown-only progression content, but move it to the list of 1-60 leveling content once a new expansion comes out.

[FelPlague]

Fun thing is none of those are baseline and require a significant grind to change between them. If they were baseline this expansion would be much more exciting.

What? you know changing xcovenents does not take a grind at all...
its the soulbinds when changing that does
but literally if you only care about the abilities you can change right away and get the abilities right away.

[Xath]

What? you know changing xcovenents does not take a grind at all...
its the soulbinds when changing that does
but literally if you only care about the abilities you can change right away and get the abilities right away.

Changing back does take a grind.

[TheFirstOnes]

A lot of people here are talking shit about a system they appear to not know anything about...

- - - Updated - - -

Get 0 new spells as mage. Nice work, blizz.

Your class is the most broken so far. You're not one to complain. If anything, your class should get nerfed MORE!