Torghast in Beta, Growing Concerns

[goldlock]

I mean in technicality it has FAR MORE then 40 floors, but yeah sure "cut content"

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There is no way to make the tower hard, that is the issue, and why its just random fun. far better then islands and warfronts, cause it has clas synergies, i have spent hundreds, easily a thousand hours in torghast so far.

there was the heroic mode, which was hard, for all of 2 floors, which took about an hour, but then you got enough powers the rest of the 73 floors became piss easy, there is no way to make it hard, while also making it fun, so they give people that option to "go into hardmode if you really want" in the endless mode. Hard tower was not overtuned, what it was is starting at a super high level, without any powers, the further you get into the tower the stronger enemies get, so if you start later, with no powers, it starts harder, but you very quickly get a broken combo and go.

you are trying to pretend something is shit when it is the furthest from it.

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^^^^ Andf this is where the difficulty comes from, you can start further and further into torghast with 0 powers, as it being legit endless felt like shit, having to sit down for 4 hours to do 75 floors, when 2 of the floors alone were only the first 2, it felt horrid.

Think they will let us go into the super high level without powers?

Don't get me wrong I am glad you enjoy it but I would love a mage tower like experience again and honestly that is what I was looking forward to.

[Elias01]

Yes I do play roguelike. Literally rogue legacy, risk of rain 2. Slay the spire. Hearthstone adventurers. Binding of Isaac and spelunky, And a fair few others I can't list off my head.
But 5 floors of difficulty, then 50 floors of 1 shorting everything wears out fast

But thats the thing. In those rogue likge games depper you go harder things get. You get starved of resources or you simply run out of power needed to defeate that floor so you have to leave progress your characters and try again. This wasnt happening with torgast. Blizzard powercreeped you so hard that only first few floors were actualy challenging and after you get your powers you facerolled entire thing. This just look like this mod simply doesnt work for this type of game and Blizzard simply couldnt find out way to make it work so they turn it into Islands 2.0.

[crusadernero]

They should do a easy part for the legendary components that even the LFR crowd can do and a hardcore part with tons of cosmetic rewards. There, fixed it.

Pretty much this. I cant believe Blizzard wont go for this choice. Let most(all) people do Torghast that gives you whats needed for legendary crafting. Give those that want to push Torghast titles, mounts, cosmetic gear, maybe even leaderboards.

Blizzard have a really cool feature here. Now we should pray they dont screw it all up.

[FelPlague]

did you master any of those games? i for played challenger season 7-8 in lol and competed on pokemon turnaments back in 2010 and know how hard it is to out smart some one in pokemon 3 turns in atvance or time every skill the enemy champion has incudung crd wihle also knowing where the enemy jungler is parting while also keping up perfect cs while trading with your eneny laner? i bet you dont you wouldnt type this bull shit if you did

playing aginst bot dont count dont start a strawman and try to imply that you bested the game while beating bot

Wow able to be a Challenger in season 7-8, be in top 50 guilds for 10 years, and pro pokemon tournoments? you are so fricken skilled mate.

Still doesent give a shit about that none of those games are difficult.
pokemon is not hard.
its competition.

"playing against bot dont count"
lololol thats not how the real world works.

"Playing pokemon in anything other then tournoments does not count"

Again, those games are not difficult, and you would have to be brain dead to think the reason pokemon is popular, is because of the "difficulty of its competitive scene" like holy moly ravioli batman.

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But thats the thing. In those rogue likge games depper you go harder things get. You get starved of resources or you simply run out of power needed to defeate that floor so you have to leave progress your characters and try again. This wasnt happening with torgast. Blizzard powercreeped you so hard that only first few floors were actualy challenging and after you get your powers you facerolled entire thing. This just look like this mod simply doesnt work for this type of game and Blizzard simply couldnt find out way to make it work so they turn it into Islands 2.0.

1. "You get starved of resources" in wow you can heal yourself constantly, there is no way to "Run out of resources" in wow.
2. "You run out of power needed to defeat the floor" issue is, as this is an MMO, they kinda need to put RNG in your favor, while in other games you get on average mediocre runs, and sometimes you get shitty, and sometimes you get amazing runs, which changes how hard the game is, as a good lucky build in binding of isaac can carry you through the entire run. in wow as its an MMO they cant have you going "MY FRIENDS ALL GOT AMAZING RUNS BUT I KEPT GETTING SHIT WTF!? WASTE OF TIME!" so they put it in your favor, and because of that? well...
3. "So they turn it into islands 2.0" what the fuck does that even mean? its literrally the "this is wod 4.0" what the fuck are you even talking about, it sounds like you got a buzz word you really like.

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Think they will let us go into the super high level without powers?

Don't get me wrong I am glad you enjoy it but I would love a mage tower like experience again and honestly that is what I was looking forward to.

Yes, they literally let you do that right fucking now.
maybe do your research?

If you want to go to like floor 50 without powers, you can do that.

go do your floors 1-18, then unlock the checkpoint, then start from there, unlock the next checkpoint, start from there, etc etc.


Also "I want a mage tower" well too fucking bad, this was never ever going to be like the mage tower, and never will be. You cant just use words to try and compare things when they have nothing in common. "I wanted islands to be like mage tower" "I wanted visions to be like mage towers" is about the same, even though the gameplay of all these you know, is NOTHING like mage towers.

if you want difficulty ,say you want difficulty, not "mage tower" cause mage tower implies so much more

1. a required cost
2. a limited attempt window
3. spec specific
4. a challenge that unlocks nothing but a cosmetic
5. if you lose you go back to step 1, no check points, no breaks
6. a SET difficulty, hard at first, but as the expansion goes on becomes pitifully easy.

torghast had ONE of these to start, but now has NONE of these. it could not be further from mage tower.

[goldlock]

Wow able to be a Challenger in season 7-8, be in top 50 guilds for 10 years, and pro pokemon tournoments? you are so fricken skilled mate.

Still doesent give a shit about that none of those games are difficult.
pokemon is not hard.
its competition.

"playing against bot dont count"
lololol thats not how the real world works.

"Playing pokemon in anything other then tournoments does not count"

Again, those games are not difficult, and you would have to be brain dead to think the reason pokemon is popular, is because of the "difficulty of its competitive scene" like holy moly ravioli batman.

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1. "You get starved of resources" in wow you can heal yourself constantly, there is no way to "Run out of resources" in wow.
2. "You run out of power needed to defeat the floor" issue is, as this is an MMO, they kinda need to put RNG in your favor, while in other games you get on average mediocre runs, and sometimes you get shitty, and sometimes you get amazing runs, which changes how hard the game is, as a good lucky build in binding of isaac can carry you through the entire run. in wow as its an MMO they cant have you going "MY FRIENDS ALL GOT AMAZING RUNS BUT I KEPT GETTING SHIT WTF!? WASTE OF TIME!" so they put it in your favor, and because of that? well...
3. "So they turn it into islands 2.0" what the fuck does that even mean? its literrally the "this is wod 4.0" what the fuck are you even talking about, it sounds like you got a buzz word you really like.

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Yes, they literally let you do that right fucking now.
maybe do your research?

If you want to go to like floor 50 without powers, you can do that.

go do your floors 1-18, then unlock the checkpoint, then start from there, unlock the next checkpoint, start from there, etc etc.


Also "I want a mage tower" well too fucking bad, this was never ever going to be like the mage tower, and never will be. You cant just use words to try and compare things when they have nothing in common. "I wanted islands to be like mage tower" "I wanted visions to be like mage towers" is about the same, even though the gameplay of all these you know, is NOTHING like mage towers.

if you want difficulty ,say you want difficulty, not "mage tower" cause mage tower implies so much more

1. a required cost
2. a limited attempt window
3. spec specific
4. a challenge that unlocks nothing but a cosmetic
5. if you lose you go back to step 1, no check points, no breaks
6. a SET difficulty, hard at first, but as the expansion goes on becomes pitifully easy.

torghast had ONE of these to start, but now has NONE of these. it could not be further from mage tower.

It would be better if it was closer...

I did manage to get some challenge out of the tower after doing the halls mode five times but its just not the same.

When will blizzard learn the player base craves a challenge. This could of been amazing rather then grindy and dull.

[FelPlague]

It would be better if it was closer...

I did manage to get some challenge out of the tower after doing the halls mode five times but its just not the same.

When will blizzard learn the player base craves a challenge. This could of been amazing rather then grindy and dull.

Ok so, what is it you want from the mage tower.
WHich of these points, do you want in torghast.
1. a required cost
2. a limited attempt window
3. spec specific
4. a challenge that unlocks nothing but a cosmetic
5. if you lose you go back to step 1, no check points, no breaks
6. a SET difficulty, hard at first, but as the expansion goes on becomes pitifully easy.

Because most of the playerbase does not crave a challenge.
also its not grindy, literally you only like need to do it like once a week to 3 times a week... and dull? it is some of the most interesting content in the game series, our first ever "go fucking wild"

[Krakan]

Ok so, what is it you want from the mage tower.
WHich of these points, do you want in torghast.
1. a required cost
2. a limited attempt window
3. spec specific
4. a challenge that unlocks nothing but a cosmetic
5. if you lose you go back to step 1, no check points, no breaks
6. a SET difficulty, hard at first, but as the expansion goes on becomes pitifully easy.

Because most of the playerbase does not crave a challenge.
also its not grindy, literally you only like need to do it like once a week to 3 times a week... and dull? it is some of the most interesting content in the game series, our first ever "go fucking wild"

Not the person in question but I would take 3,4,5 and I'm not sure 6 really existed. Sure you could out gear the mage tower by doing 15s or heroic raiding in the next patch but I would argue would be able to do it skill wise anyways.

That said I do think wow players crave a challenge otherwise warfronts, isles, and lfr wouldnt be on their death beds.

Sure a portion of the zombie community will scream but they quit after lfr is fully released anyways.

[SirBeef]

Ok so, what is it you want from the mage tower.
WHich of these points, do you want in torghast.
1. a required cost
2. a limited attempt window
3. spec specific
4. a challenge that unlocks nothing but a cosmetic
5. if you lose you go back to step 1, no check points, no breaks
6. a SET difficulty, hard at first, but as the expansion goes on becomes pitifully easy.

Because most of the playerbase does not crave a challenge.
also its not grindy, literally you only like need to do it like once a week to 3 times a week... and dull? it is some of the most interesting content in the game series, our first ever "go fucking wild"

Personally if they weaken the powercreep early on, and raise the difficulty of mobs in either HP, shields, dmg dealt, and others, they can easily match the rogue-like aspect they are going for. Hell you don't have to get a power up or buff each floor. And some floors you could get an uber one making the run trivial. Just like in rogue-likes. Was playing Enter the Gungeon and Neon Abyss this morning and had pretty much what I needed after the first two floors in each to make the entire run too easy.

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Not the person in question but I would take 3,4,5 and I'm not sure 6 really existed. Sure you could out gear the mage tower by doing 15s or heroic raiding in the next patch but I would argue would be able to do it skill wise anyways.

That said I do think wow players crave a challenge otherwise warfronts, isles, and lfr wouldnt be on their death beds.

Sure a portion of the zombie community will scream but they quit after lfr is fully released anyways.

The mage tower was one difficulty that was made easier each week with more gear, AP, and other power gains.

[FelPlague]

Not the person in question but I would take 3,4,5 and I'm not sure 6 really existed. Sure you could out gear the mage tower by doing 15s or heroic raiding in the next patch but I would argue would be able to do it skill wise anyways.

That said I do think wow players crave a challenge otherwise warfronts, isles, and lfr wouldnt be on their death beds.

Sure a portion of the zombie community will scream but they quit after lfr is fully released anyways.

Ok lets go over each
3. rather bullshit, as that limited what you could do, torghast has spec specific stuff but it is not SPEC SPECIFIC itself
4. well guess what torghast has a challenge mode, and unlocks both cosmetics and power!
5. losing all your progress over 1 slip up is stupid.

lastly what are you talking about? by the end of legion you could do most of the mage towers with some basic legendaries and normal raid gear.
like legit, it was insanely easy.

also LFR is not on its death bed, what are you talking about? a massive majority of the playerbase plays LFR...

legit blizz has gone on record saying without LFR, not enough people would be raiding for it to be worth the effort to make raids.

[Krakan]

Ok lets go over each
3. rather bullshit, as that limited what you could do, torghast has spec specific stuff but it is not SPEC SPECIFIC itself
4. well guess what torghast has a challenge mode, and unlocks both cosmetics and power!
5. losing all your progress over 1 slip up is stupid.

lastly what are you talking about? by the end of legion you could do most of the mage towers with some basic legendaries and normal raid gear.
like legit, it was insanely easy.

also LFR is not on its death bed, what are you talking about? a massive majority of the playerbase plays LFR...

legit blizz has gone on record saying without LFR, not enough people would be raiding for it to be worth the effort to make raids.

Queue into lfr znoth and show me that massive playerbase loving lfr. Let me know what you find after your 40 minute queue.

As for the rest it just isn't true. Sure the mage tower got easier next patch but barring a few exceptions it wasn't mindlessly easy like tower currently is.

I don't want weird and wacky and just as the playerbase didn't care about island consumables except the op demo I doubt people will care about the orbs beyond the op ones.

The new tower needs some truely massive buffs or its gonna face plant as hard as warfronts.

[FelPlague]

Queue into lfr znoth and show me that massive playerbase loving lfr. Let me know what you find after your 40 minute queue.

As for the rest it just isn't true. Sure the mage tower got easier next patch but barring a few exceptions it wasn't mindlessly easy like tower currently is.

I don't want weird and wacky and just as the playerbase didn't care about island consumables except the op demo I doubt people will care about the orbs beyond the op ones.

The new tower needs some truely massive buffs or its gonna face plant as hard as warfronts.

1. 40 minutes? i mean its 30 minutes for DPS, but are you really pretending that because there is a massive amount of dps, and a lack of tank/healer, that "There is no massive playerbase" but hey i guess you know the amount of people playing LFR more then blizz does, you should make your own game, im sure you could kick em outta the water.



Btw testing this i literally wanted to see how long the queue was.
For tank it says 5 mins.
I was literally queued for 3 minutes and it popped for me as DPS.

So 40 minutes? ehhhh more like 5 minutes.

2. LOL it was literally brain dead for most classes end of patch, i helped a friend out and guided them through the aff one during the final patch of legion, they did it in LFR argus gear with 1 legendary, first try. I literally did my rogue one first try without even knowing what to do, cause the valeera legs were so broken in there.

3. those were consumables that cost a currency that was used for cosmetics, plus are you really comparing those to torghast powers? have you even spent 15 seconds in torghast?

[Krakan]

1. 40 minutes? i mean its 30 minutes for DPS, but are you really pretending that because there is a massive amount of dps, and a lack of tank/healer, that "There is no massive playerbase" but hey i guess you know the amount of people playing LFR more then blizz does, you should make your own game, im sure you could kick em outta the water.



Btw testing this i literally wanted to see how long the queue was.
For tank it says 5 mins.
I was literally queued for 3 minutes and it popped for me as DPS.

So 40 minutes? ehhhh more like 5 minutes.

2. LOL it was literally brain dead for most classes end of patch, i helped a friend out and guided them through the aff one during the final patch of legion, they did it in LFR argus gear with 1 legendary, first try. I literally did my rogue one first try without even knowing what to do, cause the valeera legs were so broken in there.

3. those were consumables that cost a currency that was used for cosmetics, plus are you really comparing those to torghast powers? have you even spent 15 seconds in torghast?

Did you do it by bugging it out or using the slowing ring?

I spent about two hours in torghast or tour-ghast as I'm coining now. I spent about thirty minutes doing the intros then did then endless mode for about a hour and half without being challenged once in that duration.

The orbs are dull and entertaining just keep grabbing stat orbs and you win.

[FelPlague]

Did you do it by bugging it out or using the slowing ring?

I spent about two hours in torghast or tour-ghast as I'm coining now. I spent about thirty minutes doing the intros then did then endless mode for about a hour and half without being challenged once in that duration.

The orbs are dull and entertaining just keep grabbing stat orbs and you win.

1. slowing ring

2. maybe you should actually enter the challenge mode then, instead of constantly starting in easy mode and crying about no challenge?

3. your literally ONLY picking the stat buffs, and your complaining about it being boring? holy fuck, that is 100% a you problem.

Also love how you dropped that mention of "40 min queue time, the LFR community is dead" real quick.

[goldlock]

Ok so, what is it you want from the mage tower.
WHich of these points, do you want in torghast.
1. a required cost
2. a limited attempt window
3. spec specific
4. a challenge that unlocks nothing but a cosmetic
5. if you lose you go back to step 1, no check points, no breaks
6. a SET difficulty, hard at first, but as the expansion goes on becomes pitifully easy.

Because most of the playerbase does not crave a challenge.
also its not grindy, literally you only like need to do it like once a week to 3 times a week... and dull? it is some of the most interesting content in the game series, our first ever "go fucking wild"

I want interesting and engaging content more then anything. I guess I would want it to be challenging so number 4?

There just isn't any fight to it and i wasn't interested in running it more then four times on beta in search of non boring content. I can see the draw if you likey wacky and random but it is a really weak roguelike even if you kill all the traders in a run.

[FelPlague]

I want interesting and engaging content more then anything. I guess I would want it to be challenging so number 4?

There just isn't any fight to it and i wasn't interested in running it more then four times on beta in search of non boring content. I can see the draw if you likey wacky and random but it is a really weak roguelike even if you kill all the traders in a run.

So you want to play something hard... but dont want to work for it?

NNN sounds pretty god damned entitled.

[Krakan]

1. slowing ring

2. maybe you should actually enter the challenge mode then, instead of constantly starting in easy mode and crying about no challenge?

3. your literally ONLY picking the stat buffs, and your complaining about it being boring? holy fuck, that is 100% a you problem.

Also love how you dropped that mention of "40 min queue time, the LFR community is dead" real quick.

O lfr is dead go and try doing that znoth kill you will meet the most miserable players in the game. I also dont see it as a negative that if you bring the perfect item to a challenge it becomes easier... I don't find the " well duh of course it's boring if you dont pick the dumb orbs " a sign of good development.

[goldlock]

So you want to play something hard... but dont want to work for it?

NNN sounds pretty god damned entitled.

It kinda is. If I pay money for something i dont want to be told i have to grind the easy mode for two to three hours to do the content I find interesting. A solution might be to let players just start off on floor 50 and just bump that higher as the expac goes on.

[FelPlague]

O lfr is dead go and try doing that znoth kill you will meet the most miserable players in the game. I also dont see it as a negative that if you bring the perfect item to a challenge it becomes easier... I don't find the " well duh of course it's boring if you dont pick the dumb orbs " a sign of good development.

"LFR is dead, its a 40 minute queue"
"No its a 5 minute queue"
"LFR is dead, join it and all the players are bad"

Wow, alright then. I just.. That is... I cant even put it into words other then to TRY and explain it back to you.

What you MEANT TO SAY is a raiding scene made for the average player, which is NOT GOOD AT THE GAME are... surprise, NOT GOOD AT THE GAME.

Having a LARGE AMOUNT of NOT GOOD PLAYERS does not mean "ITS DEAD!" I cant even think about just how bad of a place you have to be in mentally to think that dead= full of players.

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It kinda is. If I pay money for something i dont want to be told i have to grind the easy mode for two to three hours to do the content I find interesting. A solution might be to let players just start off on floor 50 and just bump that higher as the expac goes on.

If you dont want to have to work for something, maybe go play something else.
If you dont want ot have to do literally like 2 runs of torghast to unlock the difficult mode, then well i pity you attempting to actually do ANYTHING hardcore on actual wow.

"wait i have to level up and do normal/heroic before i can do mythic wtf is this bullshit!?"

[Krakan]

"LFR is dead, its a 40 minute queue"
"No its a 5 minute queue"
"LFR is dead, join it and all the players are bad"

Wow, alright then. I just.. That is... I cant even put it into words other then to TRY and explain it back to you.

What you MEANT TO SAY is a raiding scene made for the average player, which is NOT GOOD AT THE GAME are... surprise, NOT GOOD AT THE GAME.

Having a LARGE AMOUNT of NOT GOOD PLAYERS does not mean "ITS DEAD!" I cant even think about just how bad of a place you have to be in mentally to think that dead= full of players.

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If you dont want to have to work for something, maybe go play something else.
If you dont want ot have to do literally like 2 runs of torghast to unlock the difficult mode, then well i pity you attempting to actually do ANYTHING hardcore on actual wow.

"wait i have to level up and do normal/heroic before i can do mythic wtf is this bullshit!?"

Look we are going to get off topic but the usual 10 stack rage fuel that is lfr znoth doesn't show me a heavily system.

Why should anyone need to work for something in a game? Just let us have the interesting modes. No one gets hurt skipping the near afk fest grind that is the first 5-6 endless runs.

[goldlock]

"LFR is dead, its a 40 minute queue"
"No its a 5 minute queue"
"LFR is dead, join it and all the players are bad"

Wow, alright then. I just.. That is... I cant even put it into words other then to TRY and explain it back to you.

What you MEANT TO SAY is a raiding scene made for the average player, which is NOT GOOD AT THE GAME are... surprise, NOT GOOD AT THE GAME.

Having a LARGE AMOUNT of NOT GOOD PLAYERS does not mean "ITS DEAD!" I cant even think about just how bad of a place you have to be in mentally to think that dead= full of players.

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If you dont want to have to work for something, maybe go play something else.
If you dont want ot have to do literally like 2 runs of torghast to unlock the difficult mode, then well i pity you attempting to actually do ANYTHING hardcore on actual wow.

"wait i have to level up and do normal/heroic before i can do mythic wtf is this bullshit!?"

I don't have to level up the game starts me at cap. As for normal and heroic I never did them before mythic dungeons so maybe that is just a you thing?