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  1. #381
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    No, but i resonate what others have said:
    You are.

    The reason why we have these jumps is that people don't have to farm the previous tier for equivalent gear.

    In your example, people who are doing Normal BoD could also farm Uldir Heroic for equivalent gear.
    That's why there is a 30 Ilvl jump, not because of Mythic.
    And what is wrong with doing the previous raid? Like, old tier HC is very close to Normal diff of most recent raid, so it does make sense. Furthermore, if u keep ilvl jumps low you dont have huge power spike between tiers, like people going from 15k dps t1 raid, to 200k dps t3 raid. And on top of that the older content is still relevant instead of just completely replacing all pieces as soon as new raid arrives.

    Moreover, if u make ilvls jump smaller, mythic gear is relevant for longer. Because now, even casuals who play only normal raids, are better geared as soon as new tier arrives, that guys who spend hours and hours on mythic raiding in previous tier.

  2. #382
    Quote Originally Posted by HCLM View Post
    And what is wrong with doing the previous raid? Like, old tier HC is very close to Normal diff of most recent raid, so it does make sense.
    Weekly mechanics fuck this up, most Heroic raiders are due to the weekly chest pretty close to a Mythic Ilvl, hence they would get barely any upgrades out of the Heroic difficulty from the newest tier.

    This also applies to lower difficulties.

  3. #383
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    No, but i resonate what others have said:
    You are.

    The reason why we have these jumps is that people don't have to farm the previous tier for equivalent gear.

    In your example, people who are doing Normal BoD could also farm Uldir Heroic for equivalent gear.
    That's why there is a 30 Ilvl jump, not because of Mythic.
    uhm...yeah and today people doing normal bod could do mythic uldir for the same gear,how is it any different?this just cuts on the ilvl bloat

  4. #384
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    uhm...yeah and today people doing normal bod could do mythic uldir for the same gear,how is it any different?this just cuts on the ilvl bloat
    Because the people that usually do normal don't fare well in Mythic, that's why.

  5. #385
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Because the people that usually do normal don't fare well in Mythic, that's why.
    sure,but that doesnt change my idea of removing one difficulty to cut down the expansion huge power scaling,have only 2 dificulties(and lfr but that irelevant),flex and mythic

  6. #386
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    sure,but that doesnt change my idea of removing one difficulty to cut down the expansion huge power scaling,have only 2 dificulties(and lfr but that irelevant),flex and mythic
    And people kept explaining why this is merely a secondary issue, the issue is that Blizzard doesn't want people to farm the previous tier and a +15 increase is not sufficient enough due to the multiple activities (Emissaries, Weekly chest) that award items above the current you're currently doing.

    By removing one difficulty, you only remove 15 Ilvl total.

    Make Blizzard change their mind on the whole "play the patch" thing as well those systems that award players with gear that is usually out of their reach (such as Mythic Ilvl rewards from the Weekly chest) and we could talk about it.

    Until then, your proposal is flawed.

  7. #387
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    And people kept explaining why this is merely a secondary issue, the issue is that Blizzard doesn't want people to farm the previous tier and a +15 increase is not sufficient enough due to the multiple activities (Emissaries, Weekly chest) that award items above the current you're currently doing.

    By removing one difficulty, you only remove 15 Ilvl total.

    Make Blizzard change their mind on the whole "play the patch" thing as well those systems that award players with gear that is usually out of their reach (such as Mythic Ilvl rewards from the Weekly chest) and we could talk about it.

    Until then, your proposal is flawed.
    Im done,its like watching a grown man fail at kindergarden math...its not a 15 ilvl difference,its 60 in bfa....its rly sad when adults fail at basic 1+1 level math

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post

    That's fucking hilarious if you prefer M+.

    Where you are doing virtually the same dungeons for 2 years straight, only thing Blizzard does is throw some sprinkles on top of it, whereas 90% of the content remains the same.
    If you raid, you actually play different encounters each raid, not just the same ones with adjusted numbers.

    Dismissing raiding as boring is a luxury that only the PvP crowd has in my opinion, but anyone who prefers M+ is sitting in a glasshouse.
    Actually, I simply prefer content that doesn't come across as a job. Content that doesn't take hours to set up and do, or stuff you have to schedule your life around. But that's just me.

  9. #389
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Actually, I simply prefer content that doesn't come across as a job. Content that doesn't take hours to set up and do, or stuff you have to schedule your life around. But that's just me.
    I feel that way about most of the game that isn't raiding. I genuinely enjoyed WoD because it got rid of the usual outdoor chore activities and allowed me to just do dungeons / raids without having to do extra chores to keep up.

    Will never get why people were so upset that they didn't have a ton of dailies to do.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I feel that way about most of the game that isn't raiding. I genuinely enjoyed WoD because it got rid of the usual outdoor chore activities and allowed me to just do dungeons / raids without having to do extra chores to keep up.

    Will never get why people were so upset that they didn't have a ton of dailies to do.
    Interesting. I didn't like wod even though I was raiding. Spending the several hours raiding was fine at the time, but having very little worthwhile to do outside of it meant I spent a LOT less time enjoying wow, which made it a lot easier to just quit and not come back for a very long time. I'm not sure that's a good thing in my case. I'd prefer if I had a lot of small things to do because it keeps me in-game, and engaged. If the game itself is enjoyable, I don't mind what other people call "chores", because the basic gameplay is enjoyable enough for me to not even notice that it's repetitive. That's one of the reasons I was able to enjoy Assassin's Creed Odyssey, for example.

  11. #391
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Interesting. I didn't like wod even though I was raiding. Spending the several hours raiding was fine at the time, but having very little worthwhile to do outside of it meant I spent a LOT less time enjoying wow, which made it a lot easier to just quit and not come back for a very long time. I'm not sure that's a good thing in my case. I'd prefer if I had a lot of small things to do because it keeps me in-game, and engaged. If the game itself is enjoyable, I don't mind what other people call "chores", because the basic gameplay is enjoyable enough for me to not even notice that it's repetitive. That's one of the reasons I was able to enjoy Assassin's Creed Odyssey, for example.
    The issue with chore activities for me isn't necessarily the repetition as opposed to having already long since progressed past them while still being required to do them. Its pure tedium, as the content is trivial at that point. If not for the rewards I would absolutely not be doing that content. Dungeons / raids are what I play the game for, hence I'm happy as long as they're good.

    I'm also not one of those people who thinks I have to devote myself to a single game. There's plenty of games coming out that I'd prefer playing over doing more daily quests that have long since been trivial to me. WoD not having all those chore activities meant I could spend that time focused on other things while getting what I wanted to out of WoW. It was really the best of both worlds for me.
    ..and so he left, with terrible power in shaking hands.

  12. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    The issue with chore activities for me isn't necessarily the repetition as opposed to having already long since progressed past them while still being required to do them. Its pure tedium, as the content is trivial at that point. If not for the rewards I would absolutely not be doing that content. Dungeons / raids are what I play the game for, hence I'm happy as long as they're good.
    I guess I get it. We're just two very different kinds of players I suppose. I think I'd get bored if all I was doing was sitting in an instance all day, with nothing outside of it worth doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Baconeggcheese View Post
    I'm also not one of those people who thinks I have to devote myself to a single game. There's plenty of games coming out that I'd prefer playing over doing more daily quests that have long since been trivial to me. WoD not having all those chore activities meant I could spend that time focused on other things while getting what I wanted to out of WoW. It was really the best of both worlds for me.
    I don't devote myself to one game either. Not anymore, anyway. I think the draw of an MMO to me, is the ability to fall off in it and get lost. If I always have something telling me to stop and go do something else, I'm probably going to take the hint and not come back. I'm interested in other games as well, but when it comes to an MMO, I'd want something that can hold my attention longer than a week at a time. It's part of why I can't stick with FF14 for long. People say it "Respects their time", but to me all I hear is "You're done, get out." from the game.

  13. #393
    Because of no lifers we have endless content. I miss the days where you could get maxed out, then you could take a pause til next patch or exp.

  14. #394
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    I guess I get it. We're just two very different kinds of players I suppose. I think I'd get bored if all I was doing was sitting in an instance all day, with nothing outside of it worth doing.



    I don't devote myself to one game either. Not anymore, anyway. I think the draw of an MMO to me, is the ability to fall off in it and get lost. If I always have something telling me to stop and go do something else, I'm probably going to take the hint and not come back. I'm interested in other games as well, but when it comes to an MMO, I'd want something that can hold my attention longer than a week at a time. It's part of why I can't stick with FF14 for long. People say it "Respects their time", but to me all I hear is "You're done, get out." from the game.
    Stay away from casinos and gambling, these little "chores" what you really like are just like those - little dopamine rushes for your brain that's hooking you up.
    The thing is, you cannot really specify what you like, you just "do it do it" just like a hamster. And yes, it is bad, because it's not shiny new content that appease our hunger, but "brain hacks".

    I'm not saying you're fallen for Blizzards trap, because it's human nature, and it seems they hacked your brain well enough for you to not realize this.

  15. #395
    Raid just need to have good trinkets to be relevant IMO. When they'll add class set back they should shine again anyway.

  16. #396
    Quote Originally Posted by deenman View Post
    Im done,its like watching a grown man fail at kindergarden math...its not a 15 ilvl difference,its 60 in bfa....its rly sad when adults fail at basic 1+1 level math
    Dunning Kruger at its finest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Advent View Post
    Actually, I simply prefer content that doesn't come across as a job. Content that doesn't take hours to set up and do, or stuff you have to schedule your life around. But that's just me.
    Sounds more like the issue surrounding raiding, not raiding itself.

    And also sounds like hardcore raiding, because having a single evening for raiding sure as shit doesn't mean you plan your life around it.

    Let me remind you what you said:
    Raiding is, and always has been, boring. The only thing that hid the fact that it was a dull, irritating slog was having people around you enjoyed talking to.
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedlance View Post
    Because of no lifers we have endless content. I miss the days where you could get maxed out, then you could take a pause til next patch or exp.
    The "no lifers" have the biggest issues with expansions such as Legion and BfA.

    A guy from Exorsus straight up he'd prefer WoD for BfA anyday.
    Preach also called it the "Mythic tax" that's been introduced with Legion.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2020-08-10 at 07:08 AM.

  17. #397
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyris Flare View Post
    M+ is easily the highest participation endgame content in WoW. They stumbled into it almost by accident and it is now their golden goat. It even draws attention to the game because it allows streamers to keep pushing something long after the raid has been cleared.

    Reducing the end of dungeon box to 1 plus the new weekly box formula should really fix everything. Makes heroic raiding worth doing again longer term and slows down gear acquisition while also minimizing RNG.
    What ever do you mean? People do one m+ dungeon for chest and forget about it. Most people do not push very high keys, they do whats needed and leave it at that.

    M+ was a great and welcomed addition in Legion. In BfA we clearly saw people getting tierd and bored of it. The ever increasing boost sales shows it to. People cant be bothered doing it, just get boosted and end it.

    Watching someone push highest keys in MDI quickly got boring too and it will fade off into yet another failed esport venture for Blizzard. A venture that in the end made the playerbase overall suffer for it.

  18. #398
    Quote Originally Posted by crusadernero View Post
    What ever do you mean? People do one m+ dungeon for chest and forget about it. Most people do not push very high keys, they do whats needed and leave it at that.

    M+ was a great and welcomed addition in Legion. In BfA we clearly saw people getting tierd and bored of it. The ever increasing boost sales shows it to. People cant be bothered doing it, just get boosted and end it.

    Watching someone push highest keys in MDI quickly got boring too and it will fade off into yet another failed esport venture for Blizzard. A venture that in the end made the playerbase overall suffer for it.
    I think a better conclusion to who you quoted is that there will be no need to grind M+ for gear, especially at the start of a raid tier. Instead, you can replay M+ if that's your preferred content, without having to severely mess up the loot hierarchy (which was a huge problem being able to spam M+ for better-than-heroic raid loot). At most, you can grind M+ for the lowest level gear if you want, but that will die off fairly fast or won't be required if you do any form of raiding. Grinding keys will be more about opening options in your weekly Vault or seeing how high you can push keys, less about the loot at the end of the run, which means there's a clear choice about whether you should run M+ or not (especially in a world w/o WF/TFing and corruption). For many raiders, M+ was way faster and easier to acquire gear to the point where normal/heroic raiding was almost pointless.

    Having clearly defined metrics that let's a player know they're done with some form of content is a good thing and healthy for the game. Endless treadmill content and vague/ambigious goals may keep people playing in the short term, but long term many will get burnt out to where the game isn't fun anymore and/or just quit. A lot of these loot changes are being implemented not only to fix the loot hierarchy in the game to a better balanced system, but also to allow players to actually be done with content instead of constantly strung along by systems that tell you to keep coming back. Even a lot of the original WoW developers will tell you that their content was designed to be enjoyed for when it was relevant to you, and disposed of when you were done with it, rather than trying to keep you going back to content you already finished. While we sometimes talk about the effects of infinite/treadmill content on the forums, this concept is no secret to developers as well as the effects it has on the players.
    “Society is endangered not by the great profligacy of a few, but by the laxity of morals amongst all.”
    “It's not an endlessly expanding list of rights — the 'right' to education, the 'right' to health care, the 'right' to food and housing. That's not freedom, that's dependency. Those aren't rights, those are the rations of slavery — hay and a barn for human cattle.”
    ― Alexis de Tocqueville

  19. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orwell7 View Post
    Stay away from casinos and gambling, these little "chores" what you really like are just like those - little dopamine rushes for your brain that's hooking you up.
    The thing is, you cannot really specify what you like, you just "do it do it" just like a hamster. And yes, it is bad, because it's not shiny new content that appease our hunger, but "brain hacks".

    I'm not saying you're fallen for Blizzards trap, because it's human nature, and it seems they hacked your brain well enough for you to not realize this.
    Hacked my brain? Please don't tell me you subscribe to this notion that we're all brainwashed by Area 51 alien technology and all the crazy thinking of conspiracy theorists that can't properly understand any reason beyond Kindergarten. Look, every game is about trying to manipulate the player into dopamine hits, ever since Pong and probably even before that. To then use that as some sort of negative, frothing bias towards wow and how it makes people feel is just.... dishonest.

    I don't have gambling problems, I'm not addicted to wow, or television, or the internet or alcohol. I just enjoy games that I can feel immersed in. I also prefer MMOs to be games that last longer than a single player experience. But I try to be realistic. I know what Blizzard is capable of, and I'm not going to be upset because they can't curate wholly new and innovative content that lasts for years and years. I understand there will be some repetition, and I can accept some of that. Those "little hamster wheel chores" as you call them are, as you seem to feel, a detriment. I see them as an evolution of the game. A game that evolves, stays relevant. And just because I can find enjoyment in something you find distasteful is no cause for you to be condescending or rude.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post

    Sounds more like the issue surrounding raiding, not raiding itself.

    And also sounds like hardcore raiding, because having a single evening for raiding sure as shit doesn't mean you plan your life around it.
    Everyone I've ever seen who raids plans around raiding with their guild. At this point in my life, that just comes across as really unfortunate, because those people often whine and complain about this nebulous "mandatory" nonsense they feel compelled to do like it's a some kind of important competitive sport that's going to get them somewhere in life. It's very odd, and I'm glad I exited that community headspace when I did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    The "no lifers" have the biggest issues with expansions such as Legion and BfA.

    A guy from Exorsus straight up he'd prefer WoD for BfA anyday.
    Preach also called it the "Mythic tax" that's been introduced with Legion.
    "No lifers" have taken issue with anything that grants a power bonus outside of raiding as the enemy since badge gear was introduced. They're degenerates, the lot of them.

  20. #400
    <snip>

    COME ON, THIS TIME WILL BE DIFFERENT!!!
    Last edited by Sonnillon; 2020-08-10 at 11:59 AM. Reason: Infracted

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