Torghast in Beta, Growing Concerns

[FelPlague]

I don't have to level up the game starts me at cap. As for normal and heroic I never did them before mythic dungeons so maybe that is just a you thing?

Holy fucking shit.
This forum is just getting to a new fucking leave these days.



No, wow does not start you at game level cap... the beta does, but live? yeah not gunna happen.

You know normal, heroic, and mythic raids exist right? maybe you should step into a raid some day if you want to say you are so hardcore.

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Look we are going to get off topic but the usual 10 stack rage fuel that is lfr znoth doesn't show me a heavily system.

Why should anyone need to work for something in a game? Just let us have the interesting modes. No one gets hurt skipping the near afk fest grind that is the first 5-6 endless runs.

Literally its just 2 runs, its literally just 2 fucking runs my dude, not 5-6. again, do some fucking research yourself for once.

[Very rare pepe]

I don't get why anyone would want an "endless mode." Everything needs an end for it to mean something. I can't imagine sitting there and going up this endless tower grinding the same shit over, and over. Let me finish it so I can move on or log off and go do something else.

To be fair, WoW has adopted the 'endless mode' model for its whole game over the last few years. But it would seem that when they have a chance to actually make something different and fun, they backed out pretty quickly. There should be an optional endless mode, yes give X currency for getting to a certain point, but let people choose. Don't just backtrack so quickly because some of your casual audience wants to log on for an hour a day to do their daily chores, give the real players something to do.

[goldlock]

Holy fucking shit.
This forum is just getting to a new fucking leave these days.



No, wow does not start you at game level cap... the beta does, but live? yeah not gunna happen.

You know normal, heroic, and mythic raids exist right? maybe you should step into a raid some day if you want to say you are so hardcore.

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Literally its just 2 runs, its literally just 2 fucking runs my dude, not 5-6. again, do some fucking research yourself for once.

This isn't a raid and is trivially easy compared to it... I would put most of torghast on par with heroic scenarios in mop. If it must be so drab and boring i rather it wastes as little of my time as possible so i can go to content I do enjoy... that or allow legendary raid gear to drop from all sources.

Edit: If anything its just a clone of islands and those let you start at mythic... so why not this joyless soulless grind?

[FelPlague]

Edit: If anything its just a clone of islands and those let you start at mythic... so why not this joyless soulless grind?

And confirmed you havent even taken a 5 second look at torghast, let alone done a torghast run at all.
Alright to block time, you have to be trolling, you cant be serious.

[goldlock]

And confirmed you havent even taken a 5 second look at torghast, let alone done a torghast run at all.
Alright to block time, you have to be trolling, you cant be serious.

I can't see the difference so far after hours of doing it my only death is from clipping through a chain and falling... Its islands 2.0 run from that deny it its still gonna be a mindless grind for leggoes.

[Clozer]

I can't see the difference so far after hours of doing it my only death is from clipping through a chain and falling... Its islands 2.0 run from that deny it its still gonna be a mindless grind for leggoes.

There are people out there clearing mythic nyalotha within 90 minutes without any deaths for months now. Following your logic that content must be too easy and boring. Yet in fact, 99% of all players are actually struggling with it.

If you don't wanna play this game, simply don't. No one "forces" you to do anything. You are not forced to get your legendaries. You are not forced to do torghast.
But if you wanna be competitve and play at the highest level, then yes imagine playing this game and all its aspect may make you more powerful - but that's your goal and your choice alone.

[goldlock]

There are people out there clearing mythic nyalotha within 90 minutes without any deaths for months now. Following your logic that content must be too easy and boring. Yet in fact, 99% of all players are actually struggling with it.

If you don't wanna play this game, simply don't. No one "forces" you to do anything. You are not forced to get your legendaries. You are not forced to do torghast.
But if you wanna be competitve and play at the highest level, then yes imagine playing this game and all its aspect may make you more powerful - but that's your goal and your choice alone.

What a weird nonsensical argument... what point if any are you trying to make?

[Clozer]

What a weird nonsensical argument... what point if any are you trying to make?

game is too easy. just don't play it.

[Motso]

90+% of players have not, in fact, stuck with the game.

That is legit a fair cop

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I know a lot of people who were/are excited for challenging solo content like mage towers. This news has not gone over well.

Again, a fair cop. I was more talking about the sky is falling types about so many aspects of the game. I understand disappointment and worry but the over the top reactions from some is a bit much. And trust me I am an expert in over the top reactions.

[Krakan]

That is legit a fair cop

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Again, a fair cop. I was more talking about the sky is falling types about so many aspects of the game. I understand disappointment and worry but the over the top reactions from some is a bit much. And trust me I am an expert in over the top reactions.

It really is just disappointment this wont impact raiding or dungeons and as far as weekly content goes even if they launch like this they are still more palatable then islands it just feels like a lot of wasted potential...

This remind me of mop dungeons. On beta..maybe alpha doesn't really matter mop dungeons were great. They had that sweet spot of engaging difficulty without being to hard. I enjoyed queuing up run them. Then they hit live and I watched those interesting dungeons turn into something I could solo in blue gear...

I am just frustrated how it feels like unless I play content on early beta I dont get to see it when it's interesting or engaging with the expetions of mythic plus or raiding.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't have to level up the game starts me at cap. As for normal and heroic I never did them before mythic dungeons so maybe that is just a you thing?

So have you only been playing at the end of Wod/legion/bfa with boost and being carried by people in dungeons so you didn’t have to do any lesser modes? Because your post really doesn’t make any sense other wise.

[Aphrel]

the 18 floor mode feels terrible when pushing for higher thorgast floors.

I started on floor 37 and pushed to 54. The very first floor took 45minutes.. Every single mob pack was a kiting project. And the mobs have anti-kite mechanics, making them fast and immune to cc overtime (aswell as increasing their dmg).

2nd and 3rd floor was similarly slow yet slightly more manageable taking about 30min each.

Then i got to my first broker, and man that was some sick powerups. Everything after that, from floor 40-54 was just a a downhill roll, like a snowball growing larger and larger.

The last 15floors took the same time as the first three so i ended the run after a total of 3h 15min by critting the last boss for 612million xD
(the boss had 2.5mil hp, mages have some rediculus power multipliers that afffet one single spellcast of the same ability, making them stupidly powerfull when you play around both of them. Blizz rly need to change one of them so they don't buff the same ability).


Now unlike preach, i don't think the problem here is the broker tbh, the problem is that the floors doesnt scale up in difficulty nearly as much as your playerpower does. So rather than toning down the thorgast powers, id say buff the later level monsters. (and density! Killing big packs of mobs feels good!)

Its a little boring that the most difficult part now is the part when you don't have any thorgast powers. Id rather have a situation in wich the difficult part is the end, so one would need to pick powers to overcome that difficult end or if one is unlcuky simply start over and hope for better powerups.
The wall that determines your progress now is basicly "Can i kill this elite on the first floor one with timewarp and every consumable and cd i got?" If yes, then i can get powerups wich mean i can beat these 18 levels, if no then gg no re. The hardest step is the first step, everything that comes next is just a grind that progressivly goes faster and fast with no increased difficulty.

Also, i distinctly remember ion back be4 alhpa talking about how great variety of powers there will be in Thorgast, him specificly mention builds tailored to destroying mawrats.. and having finally done thorgast, i can say that i think Ion might be the only player in the entire world who would ever willingly pick powers tailored towards clearing mawrats because they are the most irrelevant mobs in the whole place..
That man truly doesnt understand that players will pick whatever makes them the most powerfull or fastest, not whatever is best at chasing down critters.

[Volatilis]

How are they gonna balance it so its not just good for tanks/ bm hunter

And everyone else can gtfo

[Wuusah]

Sounds like Blizzard tried to make a roguelike version of WoW with Torghast but didn't really understand how roguelike games work. The core essence of roguelike games is that they start out slow and boring but once you accumulate the right upgrades that have good synergy with each other, you turn into a god. That's the part that Blizzard understood. But that's not all roguelike games are. The deeper you go in, the crazier it gets. You're fighting more and more enemies. Enemies with more and more abilities which deal more and more damage the further you get. The most fun roguelike games get real wacky towards the end of a run. That's what makes them so addictive. They are insanely fun once you got deep into a run but they are also completely random in what upgrades you get. Most of the time you don't get so super far because you just didn't get the perfect upgrades but you keep trying because you once had that "god run" and are now chasing that high again.

[Dioporco]

Imagine if there was an endless mode with leggo mats farming cap, so you could afk or push it and you still had the same amount of mats to craft legendaries per week.

And the "pushing" like a GR in Diablo 3 was only for "Titles" "Xmog" "Mascotte" and RP Stuff that doesn't mean a shit to progress but just for flexing.


Well I guess was too much to ask.

[skajaki]

From what I read, there will be two different modes, one where you can obtain legendaries, and one where you can do endless mode which rewards cosmetics. I'm sure many of you already know this, but from what I read in the comments, it does not seem that everyone knows about this.

In the legendary mode you can obtain a maximum of 50 Soul ash's (the legendary reagent) each week.
There's a total of 6 or 8 wings (I don't remember the exact number, but I think it's 8).
2 Wings are available each week and they rotate weekly (so you can choose which one you prefer I'd assume?)
Each wing has a total of 8 Layers
- Each layer has 6 floors
- A wing contains a total of 48 floors (8 layers * 6 floors)
- First layer rewards 15 Soul Ash
- Second reward 10
- Third and fourth reward 5
- ... and so on, where the last layer rewards 3 Soul Ash

This mode will be quite easy for the average player, meaning that the full reward will be obtainable by most players.
Players who have completed a layer will then have unlocked it, and can the next week start at that layer (and collect all the lower layers reward by just doing their highest current layer).
For example, I unlock layer 1 and 2 first week = 25 Soul Ash. Next week I can start at Layer 2 and just do those 6 floors, but still get 25 Soul Ash.
This means that once you've reached the highest layer, you'll never have to do more than 6 floors each week. This is great.

In the endless mode there's no requirement (horrific vessel like currency) to start playing and there's no limit on how many times you can enter each week. This is purely a fun and possibly competitive mode (from my understanding).
There's not too much information about this mode yet. What we do know is that this is where you'll be able to obtain cosmetics.

My personal hopes and speculations is that this mode will bring something for all players.
If you want to explore 100 floors for x amount of hours, you'll be able to do that. And if you want to have a more challenging run, you'll be able to do that aswell (maybe by activating hard mode, such as using 5 masks in visions).
It sort of makes sense to use the debuff and timer system they initially used for Torghast. It's something they wanted to have in there, and by making it an optional thing to play with, wouldn't hurt anyone. They could then lock cosmetic rewards behind both the more challenging, but optional, version of Torghast, and also the more easy one.
For example they could reward cosmetics to player who climb 500 floors total, reach floor x by y time, destroying 10000 urns, or random drop within Torghast. Some being easy, but time-consuming, some being by pure luck, and some being more difficult.
To me this makes a lot sense at least. They would be able to please both players who like or do not like challenging content, and reward both types of players with cosmetics no matter how they choose to do their run. Obviously, all cosmetics wouldn't be available to everyone, since they could potentially be locked behind more difficult content, but that's okay. It's just an cosmetic and doesn't upgrade your character in any way at all.

[klaps_05]

main question for me: is it going to be fun? the answer: most probably.

after playing it quite a while, the fun factor for at least the 2-3 classes i tried comes after at least several floors when you get to have the OP spell combos. before that its generally just run and AOE stuff in a regular way. in the current setup of Torghast i have done full runs with no actual fun combos as you dont get that many orbs per floor.

[Hellobolis]

Holy fucking shit.
This forum is just getting to a new fucking leave these days.



No, wow does not start you at game level cap... the beta does, but live? yeah not gunna happen.
.

everything he said makes sense... if he started playing in 8.2

[goldlock]

So have you only been playing at the end of Wod/legion/bfa with boost and being carried by people in dungeons so you didn’t have to do any lesser modes? Because your post really doesn’t make any sense other wise.

Well for bfa I only did the last patch... that said my alt never bothered leveling.

Let me ask you a honest question though... how does me starting a single player game mode on a harder difficulty rather then a easy one negatively effect you?

Why do you care if I start on floor 1 or floor 100?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Well for bfa I only did the last patch... that said my alt never bothered leveling.

Let me ask you a honest question though... how does me starting a single player game mode on a harder difficulty rather then a easy one negatively effect you?

Why do you care if I start on floor 1 or floor 100?

I really don’t care what floor you start on I’m just questioning the whole don’t need to level/do lower tier dungeons which doesn’t really make sense unless you only play once boost are in/get carried. But that said if you do only play once all the catchup stuff and max level boost are in then your likely not the kind of person blizzard would want feedback from when it comes to new expan stuff.