The Last of Us Part II

[RuneDK]

I mean did you miss the part where he said he shaved his head so he could be a warrior like the other men? Did you miss the part with them constantly dead naming him in combat? It wasn't really that subtle, unless you played the game on mute with no subtitles on. The only people I have seen miss this where a few streamers basically speed running the game and paying more attention to their dumb ass chats then the actual plot of the game.

you sound really angry because someone did not notice it...i recommend talking to a therapist about it.

[Eapoe]

I enjoyed the game. Wouldn’t give a 10/10, but maybe a 7 or an 8. Became too repetitive after a while, but overall I thought it was really fun and worth the money I paid.

[everydaygamer]

This is an excellent review though I don't agree with all his points such as the idea that the player having no agency in the story is somehow a problem despite that being the case for most games. But while I don't agree with everything this is still a very well put together review that thankfully stays away from all the drama surrounding the game.

[Elim Garak]

This is an excellent review though I don't agree with all his points such as the idea that the player having no agency in the story is somehow a problem despite that being the case for most games.

It is the case for every last one of the GOOD story-based games. But you are right, there are very few such games.

[Stormdash]

This is an excellent review though I don't agree with all his points such as the idea that the player having no agency in the story is somehow a problem despite that being the case for most games. But while I don't agree with everything this is still a very well put together review that thankfully stays away from all the drama surrounding the game.

Difference is most choice-free games don't present themselves as trying to challenge the moral assumptions of the player and face the player with moral consequences. Naughty Dog made TLOU 2 and it's like they wanted the choice-and-consequences gravitas that makes Quantic Dreams, Dontnod, or Telltale games work, without actually giving the player any agency in canonical events in the story. What's worse, they try to fudge by acting like gameplay is made of choices... but then, other than 'guilt over dogs', sticking with the assertion that gameplay isn't canon.

TLOU 2's only real "trick" - the thing around which they based the structure of the story, the underlying moral assumptions of the plot, how characters are introduced and depicted - is to make you think on some level you were a bad person for having sided with Joel in TLOU and Ellie in first half of TLOU 2. That trick doesn't work when nothing happens in either game that was actually up to the player. Like, if TLOU ended with a binary choice, players would have to own that. I think Naughty Dog would be shocked to see that saving Ellie would be 80%+ take rate by players.

[everydaygamer]

Difference is most choice-free games don't present themselves as trying to challenge the moral assumptions of the player and face the player with moral consequences. Naughty Dog made TLOU 2 and it's like they wanted the choice-and-consequences gravitas that makes Quantic Dreams, Dontnod, or Telltale games work, without actually giving the player any agency in canonical events in the story. What's worse, they try to fudge by acting like gameplay is made of choices... but then, other than 'guilt over dogs', sticking with the assertion that gameplay isn't canon.

TLOU 2's only real "trick" - the thing around which they based the structure of the story, the underlying moral assumptions of the plot, how characters are introduced and depicted - is to make you think on some level you were a bad person for having sided with Joel in TLOU and Ellie in first half of TLOU 2. That trick doesn't work when nothing happens in either game that was actually up to the player. Like, if TLOU ended with a binary choice, players would have to own that. I think Naughty Dog would be shocked to see that saving Ellie would be 80%+ take rate by players.

Or... maybe the game was just trying to tell a story where the player had more interactions with it instead of just taking away control from the player and just played a cutscene instead. All the story does is try to get you thinking about what's actually going on in the story instead of just what you the player are doing. It's no different than if you watched a movie or read a book that tried to tackle the same idea.

It's not the game's fault if some people are incapable of turning on their brain and instead get insulted at the idea of being forced to think for once in their life.

[Stormdash]

*off

Nobody's having an issue with the story because they were thinking too much.

[everydaygamer]

*off

Nobody's having an issue with the story because they were thinking too much.

The fact that the first response some people seem to have is "that the game tried to make me feel bad and it failed so it sucks" shows that they didn't think about it at all because guess what, the game isn't about you the player it's about the characters and how you view them and their actions because the choices you make are an extension of the character's choices it is not meant to be seen as the other way around.

[Elim Garak]

The fact that the first response some people seem to have is "that the game tried to make me feel bad and it failed so it sucks" shows that they didn't think about it at all because guess what, the game isn't about you the player it's about the characters and how you view them and their actions because the choices you make are an extension of the character's choices it is not meant to be seen as the other way around.

So it's basically a bad game. There's this clear dissonance between the game and the story. There's no point in actually playing it - just watch the cutscenes on YouTube.
But even then the story sucks. So it's also a bad movie.

I'd rather replay Telltale's The Walking Dead, the series in which my choices matter to the story, from start to finish and tell a better story.

As compared to this "The last of empty drawers" simulator in-between cutscenes directed by a teen.

[everydaygamer]

So it's basically a bad game. There's this clear dissonance between the game and the story. There's no point in actually playing it - just watch the cutscenes on YouTube.
But even then the story sucks. So it's also a bad movie.

I'd rather replay Telltale's The Walking Dead, the series in which my choices matter to the story, from start to finish and tell a better story.

As compared to this "The last of empty drawers" simulator in-between cutscenes directed by a teen.

Right because this is the only game in existence to have a story where the player's actions have no real effect on what happens. Clearly the only way for a game to be good is to have a narrative that is controlled solely by the player's actions all that gameplay in between is completely irrelevant to the experience.

[Elim Garak]

Right because this is the only game in existence to have a story where the player's actions have no real effect on what happens. Clearly the only way for a game to be good is to have a narrative that is controlled solely by the player's actions all that gameplay in between is completely irrelevant to the experience.

Nice strawman.

A good story game must have one of these (preferably both):
1. Gameplay and Story are in sync
2. Player agency in the story

Last of us 2 is none of those. It's just a movie with regular interruptions for an interactive ad for some mildly related game in the same universe.

[Darththeo]

I mean did you miss the part where he said he shaved his head so he could be a warrior like the other men? Did you miss the part with them constantly dead naming him in combat? It wasn't really that subtle, unless you played the game on mute with no subtitles on. The only people I have seen miss this where a few streamers basically speed running the game and paying more attention to their dumb ass chats then the actual plot of the game.

I know you have me blocked because you can't handle the fact on how wrong your arguments actually are.

First off, Warriors of the Seraphites are LITERALLY not all men. We meet Yara ... a woman ... who is a warrior. Lev literally rejects cutting off her arm because she is a warrior. Women can be warriors. Lev wanted to be a warrior like his sister, he rejected his assigned role of a wife.

The male warriors shave their heads, but the female warriors do not. Lev's entire banishment happens because Lev rejects the role of being a wife. Him shaving his head is not a relevant as you are making it out to me because again, warriors do not have to be male. If Lev was allowed to be a warrior, he may have never shaved his head and had been banned, but because Lev rejected his Prophet given role of being a wife ... he was made an apostate.

Lev being trans is just the reason given for the rejection of the role, but the reason he was kicked out was because he rejected the role given. If Lev was Lily and Lily rejected the role of a wife, they would still have likely been kicked out. Yara was kicked out because she supported Lev's decision while their mother wasn't because their mother rejected Lev's decision.

Also, the dead naming is very easy to miss at it is one encountered on the bridges they built with the prompt easy to miss if you are moving fast. And the chaos on the island is also easily missed. If you play the game where you constantly heard them say it, you were talking a very passive role in combat in order to hear it repetitively enough.

[The Butt Witch]

[Elim Garak]

I wonder if there's a version about Hitler learning that someone leaked the story

[Rennadrel]

Whelp, the game hasn't even eclipsed 6 million players and has had a massive drop off in new players compared to other big name IP's on the PS4. Even Uncharted 4 didn't have as big a drop off over the same length of time as TLOU2. 55% drop off of new players over 38 days. Spiderman, Uncharted 4 and Horizon Zero Dawn all were less than 20%.

Playstation Statistics

[Relapses]

Months after the game's release and this thread is still getting bumped regularly by angry gamers(tm). Jimquisition yet again delivers a spot-on analysis:

[Stormdash]

Whelp, the game hasn't even eclipsed 6 million players and has had a massive drop off in new players compared to other big name IP's on the PS4. Even Uncharted 4 didn't have as big a drop off over the same length of time as TLOU2. 55% drop off of new players over 38 days. Spiderman, Uncharted 4 and Horizon Zero Dawn all were less than 20%.

Playstation Statistics

Uncharted 4 is a better game.

- - - Updated - - -

Months after the game's release and this thread is still getting bumped regularly by angry gamers(tm). Jimquisition yet again delivers a spot-on analysis:

Are the last 18 minutes of that the same "muh Abby's physique" strawman that the first five are?

[Thereturn]

Allright, 100% done. Time to ship this bitch. Its actually funny, you can skip ALOT. Without cinematics and fighting the gameplay is about 10 hours tops.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Uncharted 4 is a better game.

I'm not some one who really cares about sales at all but if uncharted sold 2mil in the week and the last of us sold 4mil in the first three days with a 50% and 80% drop off that would put there following sales more or less in the same range with LOU2 losing more as it had a higher peak but averaging out at about the same place as uncharted give or take.

[Darththeo]

Months after the game's release and this thread is still getting bumped regularly by angry gamers(tm). Jimquisition yet again delivers a spot-on analysis:

In the first five minutes, he misrepresents the main argument. And focusing on the bad parts.

It would be difficult EVEN FOR A MAN, to build significant muscle mass in an zombie apocalypse. If Abby was a muscle bound man, I would have the same problem as I do with her physique, because it is unlikely and unreasonable for it to be. It requires more than just muscle mass, it is a lifestyle that is difficult. AND ON TOP OF IT ALL, her being muscular only really serves to show how weak she became at the end, it wasn't needed it the story, it wasn't referenced that I can recall.

Does he ever address that and if so when, because I am not sitting through a childish strawman mocking other idiots. I want an actual address to the arguments.